Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law (Read 23204 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Whether or not you agree with the self defense or Stand Your Ground claims, one thing is undeniable:

The guy who assaulted him won't do that again ... to anyone.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

I can agree with the shooter putting himself in the position unnecessarily.  Here in hawaii, local style = mind your own business unless you are trying to be helpful.  Mainland haole style is mind everyone else's business and make dumb comments about it, which raises the chances of a confrontation.   However, someone saying "hey you dont have a handicap placard, youre not supposed to be parking here" doesn't justify the overly escalated response.  While walking down hotel street today, a bum was saying some dumb shit to me.  Does that give me the right to shove him off the bench he was sitting on or otherwise physically assault him?

That point of view is almost like victim blaming.  Like if someone gets mugged, they shouldn't have withdrawn so much from the ATM and have a fat wallet.  Or if a girl gets raped, she shouldn't have dressed so slutty and flirted with those guys.
I hear ya. Definitely not victim blaming. And like many things in life, there’s a right way and a wrong way. I’m pretty sure "hey you dont have a handicap placard, youre not supposed to be parking here" wasn’t it. Now that my dad needs the HC stall, I definitely notice it and see folks abuse all the time. But for me, just not worth it. For someone else, go for it.

drck1000

You just explained why stand your ground laws exist.  People should not be required to live their lives "nonconfrontationally" if they are legally allowed to do what they are doing and be where they are.

Did he instigate the confrontation?  Depends on who you want to side with. She created the situation that instigated the confrontation.  He confronted her, and then the BF intervened.  She was in the wrong, specifically because  she did not have a legal right to be where she was (handicap space).  Someone deciding to call her out on it might not be viewed as "something he needed to do or should have done," but he did nothing illegal.

Sure, we can live like deaf and dumb cattle, letting the wolves do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm us personally.  I don't fault anyone for choosing the stand up to law breakers and bad behavior.  There may be consequences to doing that, but more often, the bullies will back down ... not bum rush you, knocking you on your tail on hard pavement/concrete.
I’m not against stand your ground laws nor people sticking up for themselves. I just too much potential for people to “wannabe sheep” themselves being empowered by situations like this.

drck1000

Whether or not you agree with the self defense or Stand Your Ground claims, one thing is undeniable:

The guy who assaulted him won't do that again ... to anyone.
That’s for sure. Unless you believe in white walkers, biters or other zombies.  ;D

Flapp_Jackson

I’m not against stand your ground laws nor people sticking up for themselves. I just too much potential for people to “wannabe sheep” themselves being empowered by situations like this.

In this situation?  He was assaulted.

Had the BF come out and told him to leave without threats or hands-on violence, the shooter would have had the option to diffuse the situation and walk away. That's not the choice he was given.

Once you've been knocked down, the dynamics change. You are now in a situation that could get much worse for you. What you do next isn't as cut and dried as "just walk away."
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

In this situation?  He was assaulted.

Had the BF come out and told him to leave without threats or hands-on violence, the shooter would have had the option to diffuse the situation and walk away. That's not the choice he was given.

Once you've been knocked down, the dynamics change. You are now in a situation that could get much worse for you. What you do next isn't as cut and dried as "just walk away."
Wasn’t referring to this situation.

And I meant “wannabe wolf” type of sheep. Just think this isn’t too far from SJW type BS.

Again, not disagreeing with you. You’re right. So  :thumbsup:

2ahavvaii

In this situation?  He was assaulted.

Had the BF come out and told him to leave without threats or hands-on violence, the shooter would have had the option to diffuse the situation and walk away. That's not the choice he was given.

Once you've been knocked down, the dynamics change. You are now in a situation that could get much worse for you. What you do next isn't as cut and dried as "just walk away."


Or if the boyfriend was immediately apologetic afterwards and said that he let his temper get the best of him, didn't mean to push him so hard, etc.  that should have diffused the situation, even after the assault.   Or if the boyfriend simply walked away and shown he wasn't a threat any longer, chances are a lot less that he'd get a bullet in his back.  of course hind sight is 20/20 in all of this.

Flapp_Jackson

Wasn’t referring to this situation.

And I meant “wannabe wolf” type of sheep. Just think this isn’t too far from SJW type BS.

Again, not disagreeing with you. You’re right. So  :thumbsup:

Thanks. Just making sure we keep this in perspective.  As can be seen in the video, these situations are over in seconds. Hindsight is 20/20, especially with audio and/or video recordings of the events.

I tried to stay focused on this situation and how there's more than what the video offers for facts.

In general, people do what they are "programmed" to do.  Principle is one thing, but discretion is the better part of valor.  Live to fight another day, and all that.

But, when you really feel your safety is in the balance, you only have a second or two to decide -- am I safer being docile, or is this the moment I need to defend myself?

I hope I never have to make that choice, especially since I've had the best means to defend myself legislatively taken from me.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

London808

So what i see is a case of assault and a case of murder.

"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Flapp_Jackson

Here's why it's irrational  to believe the shooter overreacted for "just being pushed down."  More people die from assault with just hands and feet each year than die from attack with blunt force objects - almost twice as many.

Quote
An assistant men's basketball coach at Wake Forest University has been arrested and charged with
assault in connection with a deadly attack on a tourist in the New York City borough of Queens, police
said Thursday.

Investigators say Jamill Jones, 35, punched Sandor Szabo, also 35, in the head following a confrontation
early Sunday. Szabo fell and hit his head on the pavement, knocking him unconscious. He was rushed
to a local hospital, but died two days later.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/09/wake-forest-assistant-basketball-coach-charged-with-assault-in-deadly-nyc-attack.html

The victim was waiting for an Uber driver to arrive.  He saw the coach and knocked on his car window to ask if he's the Uber.  The coach got out and knock the man down with a punch to the head.

That's all it takes to die from a punch.  If you don't feel being knocked down on hard payment is sufficient to justify a feeling your life is in danger, you're ignoring reality.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aieahound

Drejka, the shooter in this parking lot situation, charged with Manslaughter.
Currently being held on $100,000 bail.

"He will now go through the court system. "

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/13/white-man-charged-with-fatally-shooting-black-man-in-florida.print.html

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter-160052449--abc-news-topstories.html
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:49:23 AM by aieahound »

2ahavvaii

Drejka, the shooter in this parking lot situation, charged with Manslaughter.
Currently being held on $100,000 bail.

"He will now go through the court system. "

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/13/white-man-charged-with-fatally-shooting-black-man-in-florida.print.html

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter-160052449--abc-news-topstories.html

Yup, the decision to defend yourself with a firearm is not one to be taken lightly.  Now comes the legal battle and the financial costs that come with it.

Chances are, he'll see a civil lawsuit as well as the criminal trial. 

changemyoil66

It all boils down to that he should have never touched him.  Then the entire situation would have happened differently.  But due to his priors, it seems like he messed with the wrong guy this time.

There is a big difference between parking illegally and assaulting someone.

And for anyone who's been blindsided and pushed, its a shocking experience. The closest that I've come to XPing this is when playing football.  I was the strong safety and next thing you know, I'm on the ground.  And i'm playing football, so some what expecting to get hit at all times.  So I can imagine if it was unexpected like when out in public. 

changemyoil66

He was just charged with manslaughter and bail set at $100K.

RSN172

Hmmm, I am going to be in AZ and NV for 10 days in Oct.  I wonder if I should up my insurance.
Happily living in Puna

drck1000

Drejka, the shooter in this parking lot situation, charged with Manslaughter.
Currently being held on $100,000 bail.

"He will now go through the court system. "

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/13/white-man-charged-with-fatally-shooting-black-man-in-florida.print.html

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter-160052449--abc-news-topstories.html
Read the Foxnews article.  If all that the investigation dug up on Drejka's past is true, that's pretty bad.  Still no justification for assault.  But reminds me of a good friend and his stories about getting into fights in college.  He and another friend used to get buzzed and hit up greek row.  He would always say that he never started fights, but fully admits putting himself in the middle of situations where there would be a fight. 

In any case, will be interesting to see how this one plays out and impact on self defense and gun laws.  I feel this is another example of the reckless minority who ruins it for the responsible majority of gun owners.  JMO

Another interesting thing about the Foxnews article is the opening lines of:

"Prosecutors charged a white man with manslaughter Monday in the death of an unarmed black man whose video-recorded shooting in a store parking lot has revived debate over Florida's "stand your ground" law."

And why the other MSM channels are making a bigger deal of that.  Guess that is not the narrative that is being highlighted anymore to divide this country. . .

rklapp

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/michael-drejka-charged-florida-stand-your-ground-killing-why-wasn-n900406

Quote
In Florida, a first-degree murder conviction can require that the state proves a homicide was premeditated, while in a second-degree murder case, they must prove the defendant acted with a "depraved mind."

Rickman said second-degree murder can be classified as "heat of passion" crimes. While the people involved didn't have to know one another, the prosecution must show the aggressor harbored ill will or hatred or some type of evil intent — descriptions that speak to one's state of mind.

In a manslaughter case, prosecutors wouldn't even have to prove Drejka acted out of premeditation or a "depraved mind."
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/