Interested in recommendations for getting into C&B pistols. This will likely be a last resort shtf tool, so I'm looking for a model/caliber/load with more "real world application" than cowboy action shooting focus or for fun.

Heard its best to start with a .36 1851 navy,  But also to Just go with the 1858 in .44 due to it being a work horse. I'm thinking of just going for the 1858 right out the gate,  but figured id ask the vets first.

Also,  best place to get powder, caps, wad & ball locally? Id assume WGS, but again.... asking the vets would be best.

As a SHTF tool, I think you're really making a mistake. Sure, people once used black powder guns in the real world, but it was because they had no choice.
Let's look at the Cons:
-highly increased reload time
-dramatically reduced capacity
-dramatically reduced reliability
-vastly increased maintenance
-increased weight and decreased maneuverability compared to modern equivalents

Now, the Pros:
-incapacitate your enemies with laughter

I currently own only 2 BP firearms, a Dragoon and a rifle. Getting the Dragoon to fire all 6 cylinders without a malfunction is about a 2 in 3 bet. There is no such thing as "not cleaning it;" it must be disassembled IN FULL every single time you've pulled the trigger. BP residue gets inside to the small parts. You have to carry loose powder, or pellets, to have a reload. The stuff is hygroscopic as hell, and it's humid here.

Seriously, whatever space and money you were going to dedicate to a BP, dedicate it instead to additional supplies to keep your modern firearms in operation. More ammo, more spare parts, maybe even just another gun.

Now, if you just want to have a really, really good time, that's a different matter!!!

Have an Uberti 1858 rem.  Like it over the Pietta because the front sight is dovetailed and adjustable for windage.  It doesn't shoot high at all.  I can use .452 cast bullets; same ones I use in 45 acp and 45 lc, but need to load carefully with the cylinder out of the gun.  Swapping cylinders can be fast with practice.  There are 45 lc and 45 acp conversion cylinders available.  Pricey though.  You can make your own BP.   I've seen a video where plastic tubing can be used as an adapter to make small pistol primers work.  I bought tubing but haven't tried it yet.  Accuracy is good enough for me.  That said, Tom has mentioned some good points about BP guns.  Pics of .452 cast and pic of a 50 yard target with ball.  Lower "group" is 6:00 hold.  More centered group is a "center mass" hold.
 

As a SHTF tool, I think you're really making a mistake. Sure, people once used black powder guns in the real world, but it was because they had no choice.
Let's look at the Cons:
-highly increased reload time
-dramatically reduced capacity
-dramatically reduced reliability
-vastly increased maintenance
-increased weight and decreased maneuverability compared to modern equivalents

Now, the Pros:
-incapacitate your enemies with laughter

I currently own only 2 BP firearms, a Dragoon and a rifle. Getting the Dragoon to fire all 6 cylinders without a malfunction is about a 2 in 3 bet. There is no such thing as "not cleaning it;" it must be disassembled IN FULL every single time you've pulled the trigger. BP residue gets inside to the small parts. You have to carry loose powder, or pellets, to have a reload. The stuff is hygroscopic as hell, and it's humid here.

Seriously, whatever space and money you were going to dedicate to a BP, dedicate it instead to additional supplies to keep your modern firearms in operation. More ammo, more spare parts, maybe even just another gun.

Now, if you just want to have a really, really good time, that's a different matter!!!

This. I could not have said it any better. 

With that said, if you just want to get into BP for the interest and fun of it, then I would recommend you start out with the 1858 first. Additional cap and ball cylinders are available for purchase so you can load up 2 or more and then just switch them out. The 1858 has a top strap and can be converted to BP cartridges with the purchase of an additional cylinder. Which BTW, costs as much or more than the gun does. So if you are into reloading you can reload your own BP cartridges with boolits. Makes the gun a little more reliable and interesting to shoot.

Powder, caps, and balls can be had at WGS and SEC. Powder at YG’s. WGS carries the most complete supplies. But if you get into it, you’ll probably want to order balls and patches and tools from the Net and buy powder and caps from the LGS’s. Dixie Gun Works is the largest (but not only) online BP supply website.

I am a part of the Black Powder Shooters and we shoot every Sunday morning. If you are interested in coming out and shooting with us, let me know and I’ll give you the information.

As a SHTF tool, I think you're really making a mistake. Sure, people once used black powder guns in the real world, but it was because they had no choice.
Let's look at the Cons:
-highly increased reload time
-dramatically reduced capacity
-dramatically reduced reliability
-vastly increased maintenance
-increased weight and decreased maneuverability compared to modern equivalents

Now, the Pros:
-incapacitate your enemies with laughter

I currently own only 2 BP firearms, a Dragoon and a rifle. Getting the Dragoon to fire all 6 cylinders without a malfunction is about a 2 in 3 bet. There is no such thing as "not cleaning it;" it must be disassembled IN FULL every single time you've pulled the trigger. BP residue gets inside to the small parts. You have to carry loose powder, or pellets, to have a reload. The stuff is hygroscopic as hell, and it's humid here.

Seriously, whatever space and money you were going to dedicate to a BP, dedicate it instead to additional supplies to keep your modern firearms in operation. More ammo, more spare parts, maybe even just another gun.

Now, if you just want to have a really, really good time, that's a different matter!!!

I just wanted to see how long itbcc would be before someone cut me down for wanting to yse BP for SD ir SHTF 

It will definitely be for fun.

This. I could not have said it any better. 

With that said, if you just want to get into BP for the interest and fun of it, then I would recommend you start out with the 1858 first. Additional cap and ball cylinders are available for purchase so you can load up 2 or more and then just switch them out. The 1858 has a top strap and can be converted to BP cartridges with the purchase of an additional cylinder. Which BTW, costs as much or more than the gun does. So if you are into reloading you can reload your own BP cartridges with boolits. Makes the gun a little more reliable and interesting to shoot.

Powder, caps, and balls can be had at WGS and SEC. Powder at YG’s. WGS carries the most complete supplies. But if you get into it, you’ll probably want to order balls and patches and tools from the Net and buy powder and caps from the LGS’s. Dixie Gun Works is the largest (but not only) online BP supply website.

I am a part of the Black Powder Shooters and we shoot every Sunday morning. If you are interested in coming out and shooting with us, let me know and I’ll give you the information.

I saw the conversion,  but the price seemed to outweigh the benefits. I don't mind loading ball the normal way, but boolits are also very appealing.

I'll likely go with the 1858. Do you recommend .36 or .44? And suggested vendor? Was thinking about going through Cabelas, and I'm starting to lean towards the '58 sheriff model w/ 5 1/2" barrel.

I was also looking at ball vs conical rounds. I cast my own slugs, so casting conicals and/or balls would be easy it seems. Which do you recommend?

I saw the conversion,  but the price seemed to outweigh the benefits. I don't mind loading ball the normal way, but boolits are also very appealing.

I'll likely go with the 1858. Do you recommend .36 or .44? And suggested vendor? Was thinking about going through Cabelas, and I'm starting to lean towards the '58 sheriff model w/ 5 1/2" barrel.

I was also looking at ball vs conical rounds. I cast my own slugs, so casting conicals and/or balls would be easy it seems. Which do you recommend?

I recommend the .44 as I know the balls are available on island if you don’t cast your own. Not sure about the .36? Also, the conversion cylinder that allows you to shoot your own reloaded BP cartridges is only available in .45.Colt. At least that was the way it was when I bought mine about 5 years ago.

Uberti usually has higher QC than Pietta. But I lucked out and got a very high quality Pietta from Cabelas. Just make sure that if you decide to buy the conversion cylinder that allows you to shoot cartridges that you get an all steel frame model. I know there is a brass frame model and I don’t recommend using the brass frame with the cartridge conversion.

Ball vs. conical is probably a personal choice. You can only shoot ball with the standard cylinder anyway. You need to invest in the conversion cylinder if you want to shoot boolits which means reloading your own cartridges. At 25 yards (and less) the ball should be pretty accurate. The cartridge/boolit might add a little to that. A standard 250gr .45 RNFP is in order for the cartridge.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

I forgot to recommend the Lyman Black Powder Manual. If you are serious about BP then this is the best book I have found.

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Powder-Handbook-Loading-Manual/dp/B0000C6I4U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533743686&sr=8-1&keywords=lyman+black+powder+handbook+and+loading+manual

Or the movie Air America.  Rifle don't fire when it's raining.

I always thought black power rifles and pistols were cool.  Had a great time shooting the black powder guns TomG and Heavies brought out to the range. 

My interest is mostly for the historic aspect of these firearms as well as they are pretty darn cool.  While I wouldn't say they would be useless in SHTF situations, I have seen folks shooting them quite often at the range and they seem need deliberate patience to shoot.  Something I don't think I would have in a SHTF situation. 

They are certainly cool and maybe one day I'll get into them.  Just so many other things to allocate my $$$ to right now.  I do see the knowledge and skill involved in knowing how to operate, maintain, shoot, etc these classic firearms as valuable, but just not that high up on the list for me.  That they are C&R firearms is also another interesting aspect that I am sure is attractive for many. 

Good luck and looking forward to hearing about your experiences!  Maybe you can take a nice pig with one! 

That they are C&R firearms is also another interesting aspect that I am sure is attractive for many. 

Nope, not C&R. BP is a separate beast.

Nope, not C&R. BP is a separate beast.

Ahh. Gotcha! Thanks coach! 

Just thought I'd drop this link here if anyone is interested...

https://www.buffaloarms.com/cartridge-conversion-cylinders/r-d-conversion-cylinders?utm_source=Mid+August+2018+Flyer&utm_campaign=firearms+flyer&utm_medium=email

So looking at a 5.5" Pietta '58 Rem and planning to cast? 

Friend has a 5.5" Pietta and likes it.  I can't tell a difference between that and my '58 Uberti while shooting. The Uberti has a dovetailed front sight (can drift it easily) so I can center my group.  I like mine better for only that reason; don't like doing Kentucky windage with fixed sight guns.

I think ball is the easiest stuff to cast.  I use a Lee .451 mold, which drops ball at .452-.453.  Easy to load (cylinder in gun) and accurate enough for me.  Lee makes a .450 conical designed for bp revolvers.  Its a short bullet with a beveled (heeled) base.  I've found this slower to load as it takes time to line up the base of the bullet with the cylinder.  Yours might need a .454 ball.   I've tried different sized ball (452, 454) in my cylinders and would push them back out through the nipple hole.  If you do this, use a wood bbq stick or something to push them back out.  Don't use metal or you will put a nice scrape on the cylinder wall.  Ask me how I know.  Lee makes a .454 ball mold.  I didn't get a Lee conical mold; have enough from my friend. 

Percussion caps you might use come in two sizes; #11 and #10 (little tighter than #11).  My gun didn't shoot good with both; misfires.  So I got aftermarket nipples from Track of the Wolf.  They advertise their stuff to be better than Ampco nipples.  Trying those all my cap locks now; good so far.  You can try both sizes or you can go after market and get nipples made for #11's, which might be easier to find at the LGS. 

I think casting your own and mastering a BP revolver as a last ditch SHTF weapon is a useful skill set to have.   I see conversion cylinders in my future as much as the 80% stuff.  Guess I'm weird that way. 

Book I refer to a lot  is "Percussion Pistols and Revolvers" by Bates/Cumpston.  Focus is on Reproduction guns;  load data, history and a little bit of repair/mods
how to's.   Paperback is 16.95 at amazon.     

 

So looking at a 5.5" Pietta '58 Rem and planning to cast? 

Friend has a 5.5" Pietta and likes it.  I can't tell a difference between that and my '58 Uberti while shooting. The Uberti has a dovetailed front sight (can drift it easily) so I can center my group.  I like mine better for only that reason; don't like doing Kentucky windage with fixed sight guns.

I think ball is the easiest stuff to cast.  I use a Lee .451 mold, which drops ball at .452-.453.  Easy to load (cylinder in gun) and accurate enough for me.  Lee makes a .450 conical designed for bp revolvers.  Its a short bullet with a beveled (heeled) base.  I've found this slower to load as it takes time to line up the base of the bullet with the cylinder.  Yours might need a .454 ball.   I've tried different sized ball (452, 454) in my cylinders and would push them back out through the nipple hole.  If you do this, use a wood bbq stick or something to push them back out.  Don't use metal or you will put a nice scrape on the cylinder wall.  Ask me how I know.  Lee makes a .454 ball mold.  I didn't get a Lee conical mold; have enough from my friend. 

Percussion caps you might use come in two sizes; #11 and #10 (little tighter than #11).  My gun didn't shoot good with both; misfires.  So I got aftermarket nipples from Track of the Wolf.  They advertise their stuff to be better than Ampco nipples.  Trying those all my cap locks now; good so far.  You can try both sizes or you can go after market and get nipples made for #11's, which might be easier to find at the LGS. 

I think casting your own and mastering a BP revolver as a last ditch SHTF weapon is a useful skill set to have.   I see conversion cylinders in my future as much as the 80% stuff.  Guess I'm weird that way. 

Book I refer to a lot  is "Percussion Pistols and Revolvers" by Bates/Cumpston.  Focus is on Reproduction guns;  load data, history and a little bit of repair/mods
how to's.   Paperback is 16.95 at amazon.   

Since i already cast, i was planning on slugging the barrel once i receive it, get an accurate diameter of the bore, then buy molds from there.

Any major differences with penetration and damage with regards to conical vs ball? Ball seems like the easier route for casting, but want the most "effective" projectile. Yes, its for fun, but why cant fun also get serious if need be?

I'm still learning the ins and outs with regards to c&b, and so far the biggest thing is on caps and proper seating. If i do take the plunge,  ill definitely make that the focus.

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations

Since i already cast, i was planning on slugging the barrel once i receive it, get an accurate diameter of the bore, then buy molds from there.

Any major differences with penetration and damage with regards to conical vs ball? Ball seems like the easier route for casting, but want the most "effective" projectile. Yes, its for fun, but why cant fun also get serious if need be?

I'm still learning the ins and outs with regards to c&b, and so far the biggest thing is on caps and proper seating. If i do take the plunge,  ill definitely make that the focus.

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations

Well, hope you do take the plunge.      Highly recommend the Cumpston/Bates book.  Will answer the questions you just asked better than I can.  Has chapters on the 1858 rem, 1851 colt navy and others.  Discusses effectiveness of ball vs conical.  Has loads for the '58 rem repro that is like a 44 special and 45 acp.  Cost 9.99 on Kindle.  Cancel the book for refund if you don't like it.  Might be getting ahead of the process but if you want to try .452 soft lead hollow-points, can give you some to test.   

Well, hope you do take the plunge.      Highly recommend the Cumpston/Bates book.  Will answer the questions you just asked better than I can.  Has chapters on the 1858 rem, 1851 colt navy and others.  Discusses effectiveness of ball vs conical.  Has loads for the '58 rem repro that is like a 44 special and 45 acp.  Cost 9.99 on Kindle.  Cancel the book for refund if you don't like it.  Might be getting ahead of the process but if you want to try .452 soft lead hollow-points, can give you some to test.

Do you have recommendations for essential equipment starting out? Im pretty sure the revolver,  powder, balls and caps are a given 

Had to click on this just to see what this was

Re: Getting into black p...

Do you have recommendations for essential equipment starting out? Im pretty sure the revolver,  powder, balls and caps are a given 

Kit will be your personal preference.  Still learning so guess can share what I'm doing now.  Don't have a lot of time to shoot at the range and will have have other guns to test.  My stuff is for loading fast.  Took a pic; will describe going from left to right.   Far left is a Rydon 6 loader; can seat 6 ball in the cylinder at one time with equal pressure.  Next is my friends home made ball seater; works good.  Light arbor press seats 2 ball flush with the cylinder.  Home made lube; cheap.  Five ml plastic vials; can hold 65 grains to 19;  from Amazon.  Couple nipple wrenches. 

What I do is weigh powder at home and keep it in the vials.  At the range will dump the powder into the cylinder, place the ball on the cylinder, mash two ball at a time flush with the arbor press  and finish seating with the Rydon 6 loader.  I've been teased for doing this btw.  I suppose I could buy a $60-$75 ball loader, be cool and load just as fast.  The $75 arbor press is also used to size minies bigger and press cases into lee loaders so I'm okay being the weird guy for now. 

Next time I order from Track of the Wolf, will try their nipple wrench made to fit the 1858 rem.  They advertise theirs as "near unbreakable" or something.  Imho, good to have more than one.   Hope this helps you.