In the age of ICBM and satellites, it’s unlikely that a foreign power (or the US) would invade the islands again. Wouldn’t have the same issues that Vietnam and Philippines has with China.

With the economy, we can look at how well (or not) the Philippines has faired since the end of WW2. Their government is a wreck. Marcos was a maniacal dictator and Duterte is about the same but at least they get the trains to run on time. The economy is going gangbusters because there’s little taxes and the Chinese are buying everything to the detriment of its citizens. That can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on what you want from your government. The cost living is cheap but forget about getting a decent internet service.

It's interesting that you mention both the Monarchy era and the post-overthrow Republic, which the U.S.A. had a significant part in with gunships in the harbor and Marines on the ground backing the usurpers, as both legitimate.

Is that based on legal arguments about annexation being illegal but acknowledging the overthrow as legal (like the American, French, Chinese, Russian, etc revolutions) ?
The Republic wasn't run by Hawaiians, if I'm not mistaken. Sanford B. Dole was the President.

Both eras had Constitutions but pretty different Constitutions in assigning power and rights.

As you mention, the Republic of Texas was independent for 10 years. It didn't turn out well. Most States have a division or secession movement within. Calexit almost became a reality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States#1980s%E2%80%93present_efforts

I believe we are more a citizen of the State we reside in rather than a citizen of the Nation. Personally, I think if a State wanted to go it alone, more power to them. They can always come back as a prodigal son. Meanwhile, everyone will be hording the newly minted currency as a collector item. I concede that the Civil War was a bit more complicated.

I tried to google this and there are numerous documents. All different. Since no one is able or willing to provide to me the exact way the government is going to be set up and run if Hawaii is given back to the native Hawaiians then I believe no one in their right mind would want this to happen. Except those in power. No one here can show that it won’t be a dictatorship so if I were going to live here I would vote against this happening. And I believe any native Hawaiian that would not be in power would also feel the same way.  I believe that this is the fallacy in this whole subject. The only people who stand to gain anything are the people who are going to run the government or the people who have the strongest army. The potential subjects or citizens of the new government will never want this to occur without knowing how it will be set up prior to happening. To believe anything else without a constitution ready to be deployed is not reality IMHO.

Agreed. Most non-US, developing countries (including the potential future Kingdom of Hawaii, IMHO) are based on a system of "do you know who I am?"-ism. Want to buy something, walk into the bank and tell the banker "Do you know who I am?" Perhaps I know someone important or perhaps I don't but will the banker risk it. Want special access to someone's property or event, ask "Do you know who I am?" and see if they cave. This kind of attitude lasts about 2 seconds in the US. I always appreciate the rights and freedoms we have here. Hell, whenever I listen to CBC radio, I'm glad I'm not a Canadian because their government will shit all over their citizen's rights... and they're supposed to be the apologetic nation.

How do you know America won't result in a totalitarian government in the near or distant future? Have we experienced an increase or decline in freedom and liberty over the past 50-100 years?

And the only people who stand to gain anything are those who put in the effort to make the necessary changes. Hawaii isn't the way it is because people didn't do anything, but rather because specific individuals and organizations were relentless to obtain their goals.

Agreed. Most non-US, developing countries (including the potential future Kingdom of Hawaii, IMHO) are based on a system of "do you know who I am?"-ism. Want to buy something, walk into the bank and tell the banker "Do you know who I am?" Perhaps I know someone important or perhaps I don't but will the banker risk it. Want special access to someone's property or event, ask "Do you know who I am?" and see if they cave. This kind of attitude lasts about 2 seconds in the US. I always appreciate the rights and freedoms we have here. Hell, whenever I listen to CBC radio, I'm glad I'm not a Canadian because their government will shit all over their citizen's rights... and they're supposed to be the apologetic nation.

What makes you think the Hawaiian nation is going to be anything other than a totalitarian hell hole? There has been no presentation here of the plan for the new government so if you are going to make me guess, that is what I think is going to happen.

Patience Inspector.  Restoring one's nation takes time and careful planning for it to succeed.  Do you not agree?


There will be two or more factions and they will fight until the strongest wins. Sounds like what is going on right now. And that person/group that comes to power will then decide your fate for you without any input from you. Your vote/opinion/humanity will be irrelevant. Personally, I believe in the old adage, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I would never vote away the freedoms we currently have for the unknown. Especially if the unknown could easily turn into a socialist nightmare.

That is one potential outcome, but that could be said for any group of people who are trying to establish a nation.  Your assessment could have easily been made by someone in the British colonies prior to the decision to take up arms against Great Britain in the Revolutionary War.


If there was a solid plan in place for how the government was/is to be set up, And all the different factions agree to it, then I think you might have something here. Depending on how the government is to be set up. And while I don’t know all the specifics, I conjecture that the biggest reason there is no more traction than there is now is due to the fact there is no set plan/constitution nor a majority agreement. Power corrupts.

That is one concern that I am sure that all Hawaiians are well aware.  However, the reason restoration has not moved on a faster pace is because many Hawaiians are only still now being made aware of the legal aspects of what needs to take place before the flag can change.  Even then, the economic aspects have not been thoroughly discussed and that is the other major portion that needs to be clearly set and put in motion before there is any major movement to take control of the nation.

I appreciate your dreams and thoughts but I see this happening without a plan in the same way the democrats dream of utopia. It’s just not reality. JMHO 

Great analysis that Hawaiians should take heed, if they want to succeed.

The only people who stand to gain anything are the people who are going to run the government or the people who have the strongest army. The potential subjects or citizens of the new government will never want this to occur without knowing how it will be set up prior to happening. To believe anything else without a constitution ready to be deployed is not reality IMHO.

What makes you think the Hawaiian nation is going to be anything other than a totalitarian hell hole? There has been no presentation here of the plan for the new government so if you are going to make me guess, that is what I think is going to happen. There will be two or more factions and they will fight until the strongest wins. Sounds like what is going on right now. And that person/group that comes to power will then decide your fate for you without any input from you. Your vote/opinion/humanity will be irrelevant. Personally, I believe in the old adage, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I would never vote away the freedoms we currently have for the unknown. Especially if the unknown could easily turn into a socialist nightmare.
If there was a solid plan in place for how the government was/is to be set up, And all the different factions agree to it, then I think you might have something here. Depending on how the government is to be set up. And while I don’t know all the specifics, I conjecture that the biggest reason there is no more traction than there is now is due to the fact there is no set plan/constitution nor a majority agreement. Power corrupts.
I appreciate your dreams and thoughts but I see this happening without a plan in the same way the democrats dream of utopia. It’s just not reality. JMHO 

The Kingdom of Hawaii will build a wall around the islands and the US will pay for it. 

Again,  how do you know it won't be What an ideal America should be? You seem to be locked in this perception that only the United States of America can create the utopia that is what the true America would be.

You stated that the strongest will prevail,  yet the British Empire was significantly stronger economically and militarily than the colonies, and still lost, allowing the colonies to gain independence.  Did we win Vietnam? Weren't we significantly more powerful than the vietnamese and viet cong? How long have we been fighting the war  in Afghanistan, with no absolute victory? I personally volunteered to go to Afghanistan,  and witnessed first hand what ill equipped and undertrained individuals with extreme determination were capable of, against the most powerful military in the world,  and who have successfully deterred defeat and conquest/colonization against numerous powerful civilizations throughout history,  dating back to the ancient Greeks.

And i disagree that my opinion is irrelevant,  as ideas are the foundation of America itself. Wasnt the revolution based on the idea of freedom?

I will agree that the biggest obstacle facing any state, especially in the case of Hawaii,  wishing to secede from the union is a lack of direction,  but this is due primarily to a lack of direction/plan, and ignorance amongst the populace.

What people need to stop assuming and asserting is that individuals like Kuleana and myself want the return of the Hawaiian kingdom. Let me be perfectly clear, in simple terms, since people can't register and properly interpret my my previous statements on this issue: FUCK THE HAWAIIAN KINGDOM. I blame everything that transgressed to the Hawaiian nation and indigenous people of Hawaii,  for better and worse, on the actions of that failed state/government and its policies/actions that served only the interests of elitists, and I do not support going back to a monarchy and/or aristocracy in which a few control everything, while depriving people of the basic fundamental rights that all free peoples are entitled to.

Its sad that people are so closeminded to think that what currently is is the pinnacle of the idea that represents what the founding fathers envisioned. The idea of America does not exclusively belong to the United States,  and I believe that it was a dream meant to be shared with all the world, for all nation states to hopefully adopt, no matter how big or small,  how rich or poor.

If the US was perfect or what it should be,   there would be no need for this discussion/debate. But the truth is that our government has deviated from the principles and ideals that form the basis of the country, and show no signs of reverting the country back towards its true purpose or path, so why is it so wrong to envision something better,  separate from what currently is?

Rather than focus on the negatives of an independent nation state that wishes to or does separate from the union, humor the positives of an island nation encompassing the true values, principles, ideals and freedoms, as outlined in the words and texts off those who laid the foundations for America. Likely won't be perfect,  and there is a high potential for failure, but it could be a beautiful thing in the end if it comes to fruition

Patience Inspector.  Restoring one's nation takes time and careful planning for it to succeed.  Do you not agree?

That is one potential outcome, but that could be said for any group of people who are trying to establish a nation.  Your assessment could have easily been made by someone in the British colonies prior to the decision to take up arms against Great Britain in the Revolutionary War.

That is one concern that I am sure that all Hawaiians are well aware.  However, the reason restoration has not moved on a faster pace is because many Hawaiians are only still now being made aware of the legal aspects of what needs to take place before the flag can change.  Even then, the economic aspects have not been thoroughly discussed and that is the other major portion that needs to be clearly set and put in motion before there is any major movement to take control of the nation.

Great analysis that Hawaiians should take heed, if they want to succeed.