Inflation was way higher when I was in my 20s and 30s.  If you look at historical mortgage rates, it was 7+% in 1970 and peaked at 19% in 1981.  Today you can get rates under 5%,  home prices are much higher, but so are wages.  I was born in 1950 and my first job paid the min wage of $1.40/hr.  In 1988 I was only making just $13/hr working for Hawaiian.   I realized I would never be able to buy a home at that rate so decided to go full time in what I was already doing part time, tree trimming.

I have only a high school education, but made enough that a bank was willing to give me a $3500 a month mortgage loan as well as another equipment loan which was $2650 a month.

I have two other friends, in their 40s who got laid off 2 years ago when the owner of the small construction company retired.  Both started their own business.  One is already making over $100k a year and the other is making enough to support his family.  Both also have only high school education. You don't need college to make a good living.

$11,000 a year for resident

I have 2 kids there. Costs the same as one kid at Iolani. (For 2 kids)

http://www.catalog.hawaii.edu/tuitionfees/regtuition.htm

P.S. None of my kids went to Iolani.  Na Alii Baby !

Good thing I finished.  When I 1st got into UH it was $3500 a year, then when I left it was $6000.  My dad was on my ass to hurry and graduate.

...
I'm way over 50. But hard work and common sense will allow you to thrive in any economic situation.
My first job was hard work and paid $1.65 per hour.
I went to trade school and rode a bicycle.

Today I have a 3bdrm house, 2 cars, 4 kids and a dog.
I do not live in Kahala, but it's a pretty nice neighborhood with zero crime.

My point is that if you aren't hell bent on trying to impress people with blingy things, you can have nice things and live well without accruing horrendous debt.
like Rocky sez...."act your wage"

+1

I work in the construction trades and I run across all sorts of kids getting a huge break in certain trades. Most of them are working hard and will eventually make a living wage. And BTW, two I know of are supporting a wife and kid(s). Some either don’t want to put in the time and effort and a couple don’t have very good common sense and do stupid things. They will never make it. But I agree completely that one has to work hard and put in your licks. And watch how they spend their money.

Universities and colleges do not teach common sense.  Degrees from prestigious and/or expensive schools don't mean an educated individual or career success.  One guy I used to work with was one of the dumbest smart people I know.  I mean, he was intelligent in terms of being able (or more like disciplined enough) to be a good engineer, but he lacked awareness and common sense.  He's literally the type that could calculate on the fly the effect of the wind on a piss stream, but then he'd go to put his theory in to action and ended up pissing directly into the wind.  He was also a very dangerous smart person in that he felt that he was so smart that he never thought to question anything that he did nor think to ask questions of anyone, even with much more experience, because he felt he knew it all.  Hell, who is gonna question a Stanford grad. . . Anyways, I caught one error in his design for connections for steel beams.  It could have resulted in a walkway collapse like in Kansas City, MO.  He felt he knew how to calculate the capacity of the connection, meanwhile ignoring the design charts in the steel manuals.

Beyond that, like mentioned above, one still has to put in the work.  Nothing in this world comes free.

You did. They require more years of education beyond what a trade school can offer. That's why they are taught at universities. What? You want a trade school doc to perform surgery?

No, I want to get a degree that specializes in a certain area without having to take general education courses that have nothing to do with my area of study. History had nothing to do with my degree yet I had to take two courses in history, for example.

But to use you example, if I want to be a doctor then I shouldn't need an art class and a history class and a language class. Those things just add on to the time and cost.

No, I want to get a degree that specializes in a certain area without having to take general education courses that have nothing to do with my area of study. History had nothing to do with my degree yet I had to take two courses in history, for example.

But to use you example, if I want to be a doctor then I shouldn't need an art class and a history class and a language class. Those things just add on to the time and cost.

I never took an art class for general college.  I did take history.  I think one of those might even help you.

General college gives you options to develop a well-rounded view of the world and life.  It also provides fundamental knowledge that everyone can use.

For instance, I took Philosophy, Electronics, English Composition, Library Science, Speech and Communications, German, PE, and many other courses that teach you some things that are ancillary to your major as well as fundamentals that assist no matter what you major is.

Undergrad courses are not supposed to teach you a profession. They are supposed to give you a fundamental introduction into your field, and the rest is teaching you how to learn.

Either job experience or graduate level courses are then needed to continue your education.  If a 4-year degree was meant to make you into a professional, every undergrad graduate would enter the workforce making major big bucks.  That's rarely the case with a degree alone.

Even trade schools don't make you into a professional.  You need to apprentice or have other job experience or advanced training, too.

I'd rather employ someone who can write, make a speech and locate research material for a report than someone with a 2 year degree in their major.

IMO, higher education facilitates critical thinking.  That comes with a well rounded education and not just technical.  I have a degree in engineering, but I found classes in literature, religion, sociology, etc very interesting.  It taught me to digest the information, evaluate and decide for myself.  Even for engineering, I don't use the knowledge gained in 300 and 400 level courses directly, but it formed the basis for judgement used in engineering.  Most of what one needs to be a good engineer can be learned on the job.  The profession recognizes this in that it allows a path to licensure through experience, but that experience level is much higher than for someone with a degree in engineering. 

Even then, I've found that in engineering, you get promoted based on technical expertise.  However, eventually you get to the management level and where many engineers end up failing because they are, well, too technical and are essentially inept at people skills needed to become a successful manager.  That is thankfully something that my current organization is aware of an invests a good amount in that arena of professional development. 

Even then, I've found that in engineering, you get promoted based on technical expertise.  However, eventually you get to the management level and where many engineers end up failing because they are, well, too technical and are essentially inept at people skills needed to become a successful manager.  That is thankfully something that my current organization is aware of an invests a good amount in that arena of professional development.

Ever hear of the Peter Principle?

“The Peter Principle is an observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach the levels of their respective incompetence.”

 

Ever hear of the Peter Principle?

“The Peter Principle is an observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach the levels of their respective incompetence.”

 

Haven't heard of that, but I can definitely say that when I first was promoted to project manager, I had reached my "respective level of incompetence".   

Of course that was over a decade ago now, and I have sort of come full circle in that my current position I am back to more technical than manager/supervisor.  Many in my field do that, but many also tend to do that in their later 50s and early 60s.  I guess I am wise beyond my years?   

Haven't heard of that, but I can definitely say that when I first was promoted to project manager, I had reached my "respective level of incompetence".   

Of course that was over a decade ago now, and I have sort of come full circle in that my current position I am back to more technical than manager/supervisor.  Many in my field do that, but many also tend to do that in their later 50s and early 60s.  I guess I am wise beyond my years?   

Been there. Done that myself. I left a couple of jobs because I accepted promotions that I shouldn’t have. That’s one reason I stick with inspection. My company already offered the promotion to run the dept. I turned them down. Told them it was too much stress. But the real reason is I am not a good manager and I know it.

Been there. Done that myself. I left a couple of jobs because I accepted promotions that I shouldn’t have. That’s one reason I stick with inspection. My company already offered the promotion to run the dept. I turned them down. Told them it was too much stress. But the real reason is I am not a good manager and I know it.

Nobody likes you or will listen to you?    

Kidding. . . 

Nobody likes you or will listen to you?    

Kidding. . . 

Truth is I hate firing people. 

Truth is I hate firing people. 

Haha. Me too. Never had to do that, at least directly.

Haha. Me too. Never had to do that, at least directly.

I have had to fire people directly. It sucks. I can tell a contractor to fuck off but I find it hard to fire someone.

Inspector and drck1000,
Y'all need to take lesson from Donald Trump.

Inspector and drck1000,
Y'all need to take lesson from Donald Trump.

I have natural and full head of hair. Don’t need no lessons on that. 

    One of my fondest memories of college education was when I was the Building Engineer of an accredited  4 yr college.
The Design and Engineering Dept  had a problem with their large slide viewing table.
Seems the cord was too short to reach the outlet by about a foot.
After much deliberation,  they decided that the solution was for me to either lengthen the cord or relocate the outlet closer to the table.

    I still remember the look on their faces when I pulled the table a foot closer to the outlet. 

I have natural and full head of hair. Don’t need no lessons on that. 

heads

I never took an art class for general college.  I did take history.  I think one of those might even help you.

General college gives you options to develop a well-rounded view of the world and life.  It also provides fundamental knowledge that everyone can use.

For instance, I took Philosophy, Electronics, English Composition, Library Science, Speech and Communications, German, PE, and many other courses that teach you some things that are ancillary to your major as well as fundamentals that assist no matter what you major is.

Undergrad courses are not supposed to teach you a profession. They are supposed to give you a fundamental introduction into your field, and the rest is teaching you how to learn.

Either job experience or graduate level courses are then needed to continue your education.  If a 4-year degree was meant to make you into a professional, every undergrad graduate would enter the workforce making major big bucks.  That's rarely the case with a degree alone.

Even trade schools don't make you into a professional.  You need to apprentice or have other job experience or advanced training, too.

I'd rather employ someone who can write, make a speech and locate research material for a report than someone with a 2 year degree in their major.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed many of the classes I took that had nothing to do with my major.  I was nearly always taking 18 credits a semester and I still couldn't finish in 4 years (No, I didn't fail any classes either). Luckily resident rate at UH wasn't very high at the time. Now if you want to throw in English classes then sure a basic grasp of English is necessary for a college education.

My point about all these extra classes is that they add to the cost of an education and sometimes they are not necessary. If you are a school teacher then sure, you need a wide field of study, but a lot of other people don't need all these extra courses and when people are paying $20,000 a year to go to college. If they can shave off a year of unnecessary courses that is huge.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed many of the classes I took that had nothing to do with my major.  I was nearly always taking 18 credits a semester and I still couldn't finish in 4 years (No, I didn't fail any classes either). Luckily resident rate at UH wasn't very high at the time. Now if you want to throw in English classes then sure a basic grasp of English is necessary for a college education.

My point about all these extra classes is that they add to the cost of an education and sometimes they are not necessary. If you are a school teacher then sure, you need a wide field of study, but a lot of other people don't need all these extra courses and when people are paying $20,000 a year to go to college. If they can shave off a year of unnecessary courses that is huge.

Maybe you should get a degree in education and do your research project on that. I guess no one in the history of higher education has ever thought of shortening a 4 year degree program to 3 or less.  If they had thought of it, they would have done it by now, because they have no interest in keeping the schools full of tuition-paying students longer than necessary.

You seem to have all the questions.  Use that degree for something besides resume padding and find some answers.

We have degree standards for a reason in the US.  Employers want a certain level of education from college graduates.  How competitive would you be against 4-year+ degree graduates with your 2 1/2 year discounted no-frills diploma?