Now give or take Gold is going about $1,600 to $1,700 an ounce now days.....

Lead also varies in price depending on the caliber....

Who's stocking up on Lead?

Who's stocking up on Gold?

Reasons?

I have never considered gold a good investment. That is until I realized that our dollar was in jeopardy of becoming worthless due to our government not being able to manage our finances. Many years ago I bought and sold gold for a profit but it was still not a great investment as it took too many years to rise as much as it did. I could have and did do much better in the stock market. With that said, during this period of uncertainty silver has been a much better investment as it has gone up faster than gold. As an investment or as a possible form of money should the SHTF scenario come about I believe silver makes more sense to me. But I am not buying any nor am I hoarding any as I don't think our dollar is going to become worthless in my lifetime.

I am buying "lead" as you put it because I am hedging my bets against shortages and rising costs. I am sure some here will be buying ammo as an investment to sell around or right after election time.

Gold is not an investment. Investments are usually defined as people using money to make more money. The price of gold gold isn't going up, but rather the value of the dollar is going down. You buy gold in order to freeze the value of your paper (or digital, since that's the main culprit in devaluation these days).

What concerns me about gold is confiscation, which has happened in this country before and cemented into law even in peace time by the recent The National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order.

http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/03/19/obamas-executive-order-authorizes-peacetime-martial-law

Keeping recent events in mind it might be better to buy gold in a way that doesn't leave a transaction history, and be prepared to hold onto it for a long time. FERFAL suggests buying junk gold and cheap jewelry is a much better investment for emergencies, especially chains since you can break off sections to use it right away and chances are nobody is going to give you the real value for .999% pure stuff when you need it most.

If you are considering investing in gold it means you have already lost a great deal of confidence in the system and expect things to get worse, so why not take it to it's logical conclusion? 

Gold is not an investment. Investments are usually defined as people using money to make more money. The price of gold gold isn't going up, but rather the value of the dollar is going down. You buy gold in order to freeze the value of your paper (or digital, since that's the main culprit in devaluation these days).

There is NO limit to how much fiat the Federal Reserve (a private company by the way) may print.  Precious metals are a method to preserve wealth.

What concerns me about gold is confiscation, which has happened in this country before and cemented into law even in peace time by the recent The National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order.

Gold has been confiscated before and was illegal to own from 1931 to 1974!

Keeping recent events in mind it might be better to buy gold in a way that doesn't leave a transaction history, and be prepared to hold onto it for a long time. FERFAL suggests buying junk gold and cheap jewelry is a much better investment for emergencies, especially chains since you can break off sections to use it right away and chances are nobody is going to give you the real value for .999% pure stuff when you need it most.

HPD has auctions twice a year at Blaisedell.  You can buy gold chains/bullion coins at or below melt vaue.  Just need to do some math to calculate the max bid so you don't over pay.  Of course they have a bunch of other confiscated items for auction.

Of course, you cannot eat gold or silver if there is a complete economic meltdown.  Highly unlikely, but possible.

Keep in mind that historically EVERY fiat monetary system has eventually failed.  The reason?  The temptation to print more to monetize debt is too great.

The Federal Government "owes" over $15,000,000,000,000.00.  Why would you have faith in this currency?
 
For the record, I do not own any gold or lead. 

Can't eat gold or lead.

But you can cast lead into bullets, shoot a pig and eat it. Or make sinkers.

I have lead.

Not much, though. I tend to donate it to the range at an alarming rate... 

Can't eat gold or lead.

But you can cast lead into bullets, shoot a pig and eat it. Or make sinkers.

I'm sure you've realized that you can cast gold (or silver, there's literary precedent) into bullets and sinkers as well.  However, you can't count on trading lead as a precious metal.  Given the choice, you should definitely stockpile the multi-purpose metals before the single-purpose.

I started my silver collection yesterday... tried to buy a soda, but the machine kept spitting out one of my dimes.  Looked a little closer at it, and it's a 1957 Roosevelt dime! About $2.20 worth of silver, and trading for about $8.  Woohoo!  I'm set!

My point was that at some point precious metals aren't all that precious. Cause you can't eat them or easily use them to make tools.

"Precious" metals are as valuable as any other form of money: which is only as valuable as the person you are trading with agrees to trade. The idea that gold has some intrinsic value is false as its "value" lies in having an economy robust enough to have a layer of abstraction between monetary value and functional value.

If the world goes to hell gold is useless. Lead is not. I can melt lead on a campfire. Can't do that with silver and gold. Of course, at this level lead only has that kind of value until the powder and primers run out.

If you are trying to sustain wealth through an economic collapse so that you have something of monetary value when the economy recovers then gold and silver are good options. If you don't expect the economy to recover to the point of monetary abstraction then lead is better - precisely because you can't count on trading precious metals for anything if the world economy goes to hell. At some point even that facade may fall.

"When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money."

I can melt lead on a campfire. Can't do that with silver and gold.

What?  Dude, I've melted copper in campfires, which has a higher melting point than gold or silver.  I think that you just don't make good campfires.

The idea that gold has some intrinsic value is false as its "value" lies in having an economy robust enough to have a layer of abstraction between monetary value and functional value.

  "a layer of abstraction between monetary value and functional value."  Explain your mumbo jumbo please!  Gold has, historically, been a measure and preservation of wealth due to it's scarcity.

Intrinsic value is typically based upon the scarcity of of the item.  That is why gold is valued at a much higher fiat than silver.  And, which is why the paper the Federal Reserve prints with abandon continues to lose "value." 

If, if , if . . .

What are you preparing for?

And just as historically it is only somewhat developed civilizations that value scarce, pretty things like gold. It has almost no function other than to be valuable.

Just about every native culture on the face of the earth sees little to no value in it. If gold had an intrinsic value this would not be the case. These cultures value things more based on function. Things like firewood, steel tools, good cloth and the like are far more functional (and thus more valuable) than a heavy, shiny bit of metal. It is a very different world view than we have today - but FAR older.

That is what I mean by a layer of abstraction between value and function. If you are starving what is more important: food or gold? If you have gold and the person who has the food doesn't give a shit about it... can you still use it to buy food? That "giving a shit about gold" is the layer of abstraction between value and function. Because, I say again, gold has almost no function except to be valuable - which it does very well. But it isn't good for food, shelter or tools so its not valuable in terms of utility.

Gold's value is no more intrinsic than that of paper money - its just more scarce and limited so its value is more concrete compared to paper money. Male Mountain Lion Nipples are scarce and difficult to get, too, but that gives them no intrinsic value as currency. Gold is simply the currency the West has agreed will be valuable and it's static amount in the world makes its value more or less constant. Without that agreement - which might happen in some of the worst case scenarios that get tossed around a "preparedness and survival" forum - the "value" of the gold vanishes. So which is more important for you to be carrying around if civilization collapses: lead or gold?

Which is pretty much my only point and the only reason I mentioned this in the first place here in a thread titled "Lead vs. Gold":

If civilization collapses and we go back to utility (for shelter, food, tools, etc.) being the basis of value then lead is more valuable than gold - provided there are also other reloading materials.
If civilization just stumbles then nothing really changes and gold continues to be more valuable.

I'm not saying lead is more valuable than gold. I'm saying that in this situation lead is more valuable, while in that situation gold is. Which situation you are preparing for dictates which metal you might stock up on.

What?  Dude, I've melted copper in campfires, which has a higher melting point than gold or silver.  I think that you just don't make good campfires.

I knew I should have said "can't do that easily"

That is what I mean by a layer of abstraction between value and function.

Thanks for the explanation and I understand what you believe.  I disagree though.

If it is TEOTWAWKI then the only value lead has is in the form of bullets in loaded ammunition for protection and killing.  I really do not think that you will have the luxury of standing around a camp fire to cast bullets.  There will be hundreds of thousands (in Hawaii and hundreds of millions elsewhere) of desperate and hungry people scavanging for food and water.  No electricity, no running water, and no food = doesn't really matter how much lead or gold you have.  Or stored food/water, garden, etc.

But, TEOTWAWKI is highly unlikely IMHO so gold will continue to have intrinsic value.

And, for the record again, I do not own any gold or lead in any form.  Also, I have full faith in our illustrious federal government and their wonderful entitlement programs.

But, I am waiting for them to pass a law that requires a government worker to wipe my butt when I am done with my business on the throne since I need them for every other aspect of my life.  Because according to them I am incapable of taking care of myself.
 

I used to buy into that "stock up on gold" theory. I even bought gold quite frequently when it was around $800/ounce. However, I sold it all last year after coming to the logical conclusion of it not being that useful. Instead I have replaced my gold stash with more food, water, supplies, and some silver. I also agree with Ferfal on the idea of easily trade-able jewelry. I think in order for a precious metal to be viable in any P.A.W. scenario, its value has to be easily determined. Gold does not have that charactoristic. Silver coins, jewelry, bullets, food, liquor, or supplies can easily be traded because most of those things share a common value. Gold doesn't offer that, except for large purchases i.e., trading two gold coins for a horse or whatnot.

All in all I figure keep a couple gold ounces for large purchases, like someones life, but stock up on silver and jewelry, liquor, or supplies for more common trades.   

Just sayin'

I buy my "lead" in ammo form.

My wife has enough "Gold"

Gold is beyond over priced and if S really HTF, and it came down to it... i'd take a box of ammo over a gold coin any day... Gold coins bounce off people. Bullets don't.

I consider PMs as luxury prepper fodder; or at least something you get once you believe you've hit your minimum for food and water.

I personally will never have enough bullets, beans, or bandaids to justify investing in PMs.

Speaking of which where do you guys buy lead for casting? I heard it's gone up 3x in price over the past few months. Saw the guy on craigslist selling sinkers.

I get sinkers too. I take them from my wifes grandparents house when no one watching.