TSA /HA new regulation (Read 931 times)

808Trap

TSA /HA new regulation
« on: May 15, 2019, 07:08:22 AM »
Just got back from a trap shoot in Livermore, Ca.  Upon checking in at the counter, 2 of us were asked for the keys to open the hard case that we had already checked in.  We asked for a TSA supervisor saying that we would not give up the keys and they would have to bring the cases out to us so we could be there when they opened it.  What we got was a HA supervisor that asked for the key and he would be there when they opened the cases.  We tried to explain to him about being there to sure nothing happened to the guns.  The HA supervisor said that's the way they do it here.  We tried to tell him that per the TSA reg, we should not give up the keys because we would not see the contents til we get home which might be to late.  Could not board if keys were not given to him so we finally gave in.  Just a heads up to all travelling that HA might be doing this starting at Oakland airport.  Might travel to different airport and airline.

oldfart

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 07:27:56 AM »
I would contact corporate and ask them if this is a new policy.
What, Me Worry?

ren

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 08:47:24 AM »
absolute horseshit. :grrr:
In addition to the 2A card, I'd throw down gender, race, correct use of pronouns etc.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 10:33:23 AM »
The TSA rules say they can take the keys from you to open the case:

Quote
... Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key ...

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition

It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

Ripper3785

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 10:51:56 AM »
The TSA rules say they can take the keys from you to open the case:

You just beat me to this.  I don't remember this exception.  So in the case of OP, can TSA personnel request the key be obtained by airline personnel?  Control of the key is getting pretty loose with multiple parties...

808Trap

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 11:12:15 AM »
TSA did not request for the keys.  Hawn Air check in supervisor asked for the key and we even requested for the TSA supervisor to verify this.  I did not see the modified  paragraph mentioning that they can request for the keys and think this section was added in.  In all my prior travelling, you did not turn your keys for them to open the cases unless you are there also, especially if they do it in the back room without you.  Now it is open for them to do it at all terminals without you and who knows what is missing from the case only discovered after you reach home.

808Trap

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 11:28:48 AM »
More addition to the above policy by the TSA.  Many airport TSA agents have asked for my keys to run more compliance testing.  No problems there.  The situation becomes more complicated when they want to do the testing without me pesent.  I always asked the TSA agent or supervisor to bring the case back to me and then I give the keys to the agent for him to open it.  Lots of the inspection testing is done in the back room and not where to check in.  Even in HNL.  The problem is what happens behind the closed door.  They do not want you back there and you probably need special clearance to see that the case is locked with all contents intact.

drck1000

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 11:35:46 AM »
More addition to the above policy by the TSA.  Many airport TSA agents have asked for my keys to run more compliance testing.  No problems there.  The situation becomes more complicated when they want to do the testing without me pesent.  I always asked the TSA agent or supervisor to bring the case back to me and then I give the keys to the agent for him to open it.  Lots of the inspection testing is done in the back room and not where to check in.  Even in HNL.  The problem is what happens behind the closed door.  They do not want you back there and you probably need special clearance to see that the case is locked with all contents intact.
I agree. 

I thought there was a thread about this recently.  Something like recommend allowing more time in case of additional TSA inspection and that inspection may take more time because of access and/or where TSA may conduct the screening. 

I've had TSA perform inspection testing, swabbing, etc, but always in my presence.  I was always told to hangout in the ticketing area just in case TSA needed access once my bag "went below", but I had never been asked for access in those instances. 

On a side note, how'd the trap shoot go?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 12:03:49 PM »
I've not experienced this yet. If/when I do, I'll have the person I give my keys to -- TSA or airline employee -- SIGN a note with their name, employee ID or badge #, and position.  That way, if there are any discrepancies at my destination, I can file a claim with that info.  It avoids TSA and airline employees pointing the finger of blame at each other: 

"TSA took the keys from the passenger."

"No, TSA received the keys from the airline rep."

My note would show who took control of my keys, making them and their employers responsible for safeguarding my property. 

They can't force us to comply with policies and then deny responsibility for losses caused by their policies.
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

changemyoil66

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 01:23:29 PM »
I've had my can of eggplant from Trader Joes swabbed and come back positive for something.  Told I either had to open it there, or toss it.  The metal can is not resealable.

Maybe the stock boy at TJ's was into some heavy shit.

Luckily, never had a problem with firearms, well besides TSA taking 1 JHP from my box of 50.  The problem is that you were in Oakland (Commifornia).  I know a guy almost arrested for having his VP9 at the airport on a layover to Alaska.  TSA told him he could have him arrested if he wanted to because the VP9 is not on the list of approved handguns.  He caught a direct flight back and paid more.

akumalio

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 10:18:09 PM »
I would still take the time to file a clarification with Hawaiian regarding the actions of the Hawaiian Agent.
Hawaiian Airlines Consumer Affairs Office
https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/cao

Unfortunately each station seems to make up their own interpretation of the rules, regulations, and policies. I've never had any issues checking in a firearm in HNL and amazingly didn't when I was transiting through JFK coming home. But i've had lots of issues at the neighbor island stations with different agents each time.

hvybarrels

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2019, 10:29:24 PM »
The problem is that you were in Oakland (Commifornia).  I know a guy almost arrested for having his VP9 at the airport on a layover to Alaska.  TSA told him he could have him arrested if he wanted to because the VP9 is not on the list of approved handguns.  He caught a direct flight back and paid more.

Forgive me if I"m mistaken but isn't the list only relevant for guns that people are planning on selling?
“The workers must be armed and organized…under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered. Any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.” - Karl Marx

Flapp_Jackson

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2019, 12:41:33 AM »
Forgive me if I"m mistaken but isn't the list only relevant for guns that people are planning on selling?

Looks like you're correct.

Quote
As of January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California

for sale,
lent,
given,
kept for sale, or
offered/exposed for sale

unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California
by the Department of Justice.

Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certguns?make=All


Since there are exceptions, particularly for private party transfers, it's obviously not illegal to possess handguns not on the roster.

Sounds like the TSA agent didn't know the law (high probability) or was intentionally fucking with the traveler for some reason.

It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

808Trap

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2019, 08:02:05 AM »
The TSA policy is for all firearms.  Keys should be given only to TSA agents for rescreening.  As noted above, may be a good idea to note down all particulars including names, dates, etc.  Info will be helpful if contents are damaged or mia.

changemyoil66

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2019, 09:32:30 AM »
Good to know about Kommiefornia.  IIRC an NFL player was arrested in NY airport for something similar because the gun wasn't registered in NY.  He had a long layover going back to GA and had his suitcase with his gun in it that he was checking.  He ended up beating the charge, but it cost him $$$. And he sat in jail for a few days.

I googled "NFL player arrested with gun at airport" and hot damn, so many hits.  I guess it's common.

6716J

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 12:07:28 PM »
Commiefornia, New Jersey, New York and the other communist states forget and trample on FOPA. So if they seize your firearm, they are breaking the law, and they know it. NY has a long history of arresting people in the airport when they collect their firearms at baggage because they are "outside" of the controlled zone.


From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
"Safe passage" provision
One of the law's provisions (codified in section 926A of title 18 of the U.S. Code) was that persons traveling from one place to another have a defense for any state firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gasoline), provided that the individual is not otherwise prohibited from possession of a firearm, the firearms and ammunition are not readily accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.[12][13]

This section has also been interpreted to protect air travel.[14][15]



https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCODE-2011-title18/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec926A/context
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

changemyoil66

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 02:37:25 PM »
You will probably win in court, but it will cost you.  NY doesn't care.

2ahavvaii

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 08:52:57 PM »
its not a new regulation, just DA TSA/ticket agents making up their own rules. Even different airlines has their own policies.  idiots making up their own crap happens all the time. 

There's actually a lot of firearm theft from checked luggage.  Guess who? That's why many people separate their bolts or slides or whatever from the firearm and ship them separately.  Of course it doubles your chances of getting screwed if one of your bags go missing.  Pick your poison.

ren

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 09:25:05 PM »
When I did travel with a personal firearm, I put in a GPS puck that would transmit via GSM it's location. Problem is with reception in a case. It was awhile ago before the advent of dual GPS & GLONASS systems we have now.

mauiboi9

Re: TSA /HA new regulation
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2019, 09:40:00 AM »
From my experience the only reason they would ask you for the key is something in the case either through the x-ray or swab triggered something. So because your a Hawaiian airlines passenger TSA is going to contact the carrier of the bag to get the key. If you Deny access to the key then the carrier has to deal with you and be responsible for the bag not TSA. Because if you choose not to give the key you will not fly without your bag. Usually when declaring a firearm an agent will take you to the oversize tsa checkpoint where you will open the case they will swab that should be that. Locks are locked declaration is in that its unloaded. I never use TSA locks because they would have access to it without you being there.
Im a recoil junkie