Iran Downs US Drone (Read 9120 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2019, 02:28:24 PM »

drck1000

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2019, 03:05:04 PM »
I thought it was in international waters?

NM, just clicked on the link.  Nice.
Bazinga  ;D

eyeeatingfish

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2019, 10:47:56 PM »
My main wonder about all this was whether it was truly in international airspace or in Iranian airspace

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2019, 12:22:43 PM »
My main wonder about all this was whether it was truly in international airspace or in Iranian airspace

If you understood drones, how they are operated, and the fact they are usually remote-controlled from a geographically separate location, drones require satellite communications (OTH limits mandate it),

Location of the drone is monitored and RECORDED via military-grade GPS.

Anyone with a clue doesn't wonder where the drone was operating.  We would have EVIDENCE in the form of recordings to prove where it was.

We did the same when the USS Stark was hit by an Iraqi jet before Desert Storm, and the evidence was recorded by an AWACS.  I did the data reduction to provide evidence to the DoD and State Dept.  Iraq was lying about their pilot's actions. We proved he lied.  They were amazed we could do that, since they knew how far away the AWACS was stationed.

Trump isn't going to make false statements.  He has the evidence.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 05:11:54 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2019, 01:35:54 PM »
There are disputed island and territory that Iran claims that aren't recognized by other countries, also treaties.  So both parties could be right.

changemyoil66

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2019, 02:09:20 PM »
There are disputed island and territory that Iran claims that aren't recognized by other countries, also treaties.  So both parties could be right.

Petoria!!!!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2019, 05:26:41 PM »
There are disputed island and territory that Iran claims that aren't recognized by other countries, also treaties.  So both parties could be right.

Can you be more specific?  I know there has been confusion over some locations' independence or loyalty to Iran for centuries, but many were resolved through the UN. 

Did Iran make such a claim -- that flying over a disputed landmass equated to to drone using Iranian airspace?  Every account I've read says the drone was miles from the Iranian coastline.  Iranian commander said, "[The drone] continued flying toward and into our territory,"

US evidence shows the Drone was shot down about 17 miles from Iran's coastline.  International waters begin 2 miles beyond the coast.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2019, 01:06:31 PM »

US evidence shows the Drone was shot down about 17 miles from Iran's coastline.  International waters begin 2 miles beyond the coast.

Did you forget to put the 1 before the 2?  International waters is generally considered to be 12 nautical miles from shore, or around 13.8 regular miles.
Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2019, 08:31:12 PM »
Did you forget to put the 1 before the 2?  International waters is generally considered to be 12 nautical miles from shore, or around 13.8 regular miles.

Yes. 12NM is what I meant.

5NM is a pretty good buffer.

Who do you think is more likely to be wrong (assuming we aren't entertaining the "Muh disputed island" argument):

1.  The Operator flying a remote controlled aircraft can't tell where the thing actually was, or

2.  Iranian tracking isn't as accurate as they would like the world to believe??
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2019, 09:45:10 PM »
If you understood drones, how they are operated, and the fact they are usually remote-controlled from a geographically separate location, drones require satellite communications (OTH limits mandate it),

Location of the drone is monitored and RECORDED via military-grade GPS.

Anyone with a clue doesn't wonder where the drone was operating.  We would have EVIDENCE in the form of recordings to prove where it was.

We did the same when the USS Stark was hit by an Iraqi jet before Desert Storm, and the evidence was recorded by an AWACS.  I did the data reduction to provide evidence to the DoD and State Dept.  Iraq was lying about their pilot's actions. We proved he lied.  They were amazed we could do that, since they knew how far away the AWACS was stationed.

Trump isn't going to make false statements.  He has the evidence.

Yeah, because the US military would not have any way to falsify such data. What was I thinking?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2019, 10:54:02 PM »
Yeah, because the US military would not have any way to falsify such data. What was I thinking?

Spoken like someone who has not been in the military.

What could the motivation to lie possibly be?  If it was a ruse to give the US a reason to start a war, I guess Trump wasn't in on it.  "They destroyed our property!!  Nuke them all !!"

If the drone was actually in Iranian airspace, it could have been more easily explained away as a technical malfunction, such as loss of communications with the drone, as opposed to manufacturing fake evidence to "prove" we did not violate Iranian airspace.

It's not like admitting we were wrong would have given Iran a reason to attack us.  Iran shot it down. They did as much as they should have -- they destroyed an aircraft they contend was fair game.

In short, a lie would not provide an excuse to kick Iran's ass, nor would it prevent potential retaliations from Iran.

What were you thinking?  Obviously not much.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2019, 12:10:33 PM »
And now US downs an Iranian drone.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2019, 12:48:07 PM »
And now US downs an Iranian drone.

The US shoots down an Iranian drone, and Trump draws a red line

Quote
This U.S. action should not be seen as retaliation for Iran's downing of a U.S. drone in June, but rather
as an act of self-defense.

It is justified for two reasons.

First, because Iran uses armed drones as a keystone element of its four-pronged war-fighting strategy
for the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman (the other three elements being anti-ship missiles, mines, and
fast attack boats). Second, because Iran conducted this operation to test U.S. resolve in face of overt
threats to American personnel.

While it's not yet clear which type of drone was involved here, it was likely a Shahed 129 type drone.
Armable with bombs, and possibly unguided rockets, Iran has previously used this platform to threaten
American forces in the region. Regardless, while not nearly as advanced as U.S. military and intelligence
drones, Iranian drones can threaten American personnel.

Again, on the available information, this was a justified action. Iran was repeatedly warned to withdraw
the drone. The drone closed within 1 kilometer of the Boxer amphibious ready group before being shot
down. And remember, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps builds and deploys its drones as a
means of lethal threat.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-us-shoots-down-an-iranian-drone-and-trump-draws-a-red-line
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2019, 02:34:00 PM »
Can't wait to see how libs spin this to Trumps fault.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2019, 08:35:48 PM »

What could the motivation to lie possibly be?

Hmm, lets see. Maybe so they don't have to admit they entered Iranian airspace.... You really aren't very imaginative are you?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2019, 10:06:21 PM »
Hmm, lets see. Maybe so they don't have to admit they entered Iranian airspace.... You really aren't very imaginative are you?

You aren't very smart.

 :popcorn:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2019, 11:23:50 AM »
You aren't very smart.

 :popcorn:

Your reply just proves my point  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Just have to have the last word don't you? Ok, go ahead, say something so you can feel like a big man then we can get back on topic ok?  :stopjack:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2019, 11:44:41 AM »
Your reply just proves my point  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Just have to have the last word don't you? Ok, go ahead, say something so you can feel like a big man then we can get back on topic ok?  :stopjack:

So original, since you're the one who obviously can't stand to give anyone the last word.

Your extreme childishness is well encapsulated in this comment.  Good job!   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2019, 03:22:36 PM »
Iranian disputed territory



In 1971, after the British left the area Iranian forces claimed the islands of Abu Musa, Greater Tunb, and Lesser Tunb, located at the mouth of the Persian Gulf between Iran and the UAE. The Iranians asserted their claims to the islands. Iran continued to hold the islands in 1993, and its action remained a source of contention with the UAE, which claimed authority by virtue of Britain's transfer of the islands to the emirates of Sharjah and Ras al-Khaimah. However, Britain had also agreed to give full authority to the Iranians in return for Iran's withdrawal of its claim on Bahrain. By late 1992, Sharjah and Iran had reached agreement with regard to Abu Musa, but Ras al-Khaimah had not reached a settlement with Iran concerning Greater Tunb and Lesser Tunb.[1] The UAE have attempted to bring the dispute before the International Court of Justice,[2] but Iran refused. Tehran says the islands always belonged to it as it had never renounced possession of the islands, and that they are part of Iranian territory.[3]

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Iran Downs US Drone
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2019, 06:55:44 PM »
Iranian disputed territory



In 1971, after the British left the area Iranian forces claimed the islands of Abu Musa, Greater Tunb, and Lesser Tunb, located at the mouth of the Persian Gulf between Iran and the UAE. The Iranians asserted their claims to the islands. Iran continued to hold the islands in 1993, and its action remained a source of contention with the UAE, which claimed authority by virtue of Britain's transfer of the islands to the emirates of Sharjah and Ras al-Khaimah. However, Britain had also agreed to give full authority to the Iranians in return for Iran's withdrawal of its claim on Bahrain. By late 1992, Sharjah and Iran had reached agreement with regard to Abu Musa, but Ras al-Khaimah had not reached a settlement with Iran concerning Greater Tunb and Lesser Tunb.[1] The UAE have attempted to bring the dispute before the International Court of Justice,[2] but Iran refused. Tehran says the islands always belonged to it as it had never renounced possession of the islands, and that they are part of Iranian territory.[3]

Irrelevant if the drone was not within the airspace over a disputed island.  So far, I've seen nothing in the news saying your assumption/hypothesis that the airspace was in disputed territory was ever claimed by Iran. 
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw