HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform (Read 616 times)

zippz

HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« on: July 05, 2019, 10:58:08 AM »
Please support HB748 which changes the asset forfeiture law to only be done after a conviction.  Currently it can be done to anyone without a trial or conviction.  This is a violation of due process rights and taking property without compensation.  I also believe that the Gun Violence Research Center bill was killed because hb748 would've removed it's funding.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=748


Governor Ige plans to Veto HB748 which would prevent the reforms.  Please write him a message at https://governor.hawaii.gov/contact-us/comments-on-legislation/ by July 9th





« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 04:26:08 PM by zippz »
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punaperson

Re: HB 748 Assert Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2019, 11:30:43 AM »
That bill was passed UNANIMOUSLY by both the house and senate. Okay, so they're all socialists so that could be a bad thing, but this is one of those cases where their progressive ACLU views actually are attempting to protect a right (rather than destroy them like they do without 2A-protected rights).

Ige is under the influence of the cops and prosecutors and AG, who split all the money they confiscate via asset forfeiture. Not sure if there might not be a (not so?) subtle threat against anyone taking all that cash away from them.

I'm pretty sure that once Ige puts out his "Rationale for Veto" public statement like he did last week it's a done deal. Wouldn't hurt to tell him he's full of shit (again).

Here's an article in Forbes that lays out the unanimous legislature's case:

Hawaii Governor Wants To Veto Bill That Would Stop “Government-Sponsored Theft”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2019/07/01/hawaii-governor-wants-to-veto-bill-that-would-stop-government-sponsored-theft/#2b2a8e328b5c

zippz

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2019, 04:26:47 PM »
Legislature will not hold a special session to override vetos.  So just msg the Governor
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

Mdotweber

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2019, 06:16:04 PM »
Would it be appropriate to post this on Stolen Stuff Hawaii? It wouldn't hurt to spread the word to a different audience, I would but do not have social media.
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?

eyeeatingfish

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2019, 09:35:55 PM »
I wonder what would be the downside of this idea? If the police have to wait for a conviction then what stops someone from selling, moving, hiding, etc the property to be forfeited?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 12:20:45 AM »
I wonder what would be the downside of this idea? If the police have to wait for a conviction then what stops someone from selling, moving, hiding, etc the property to be forfeited?

In one-third of forfeitures, property was confiscated without a criminal conviction. 

What if those assets were the only means you have of hiring a good enough lawyer to fight the charges? 

What if you can't afford the greater of $2,500 or 10% of the value of the property to post bond within 30 days of being notified the property was seized?  Failure to post bond automatically results in forfeiture to the government.

What if the property is a house, and it's seized for 5 years while you are prosecuted and maybe appealed the conviction.  During the 5 years, who paid the mortgage?  Who kept it up?  Where did you live?  What if you had to move from Hawaii for work?  Do you just walk away from the house?  What if you planned on selling, but the market dropped 25% during the time the forfeiture was being disputed?

What if it's a car -- your only means of transportation? 

What if it's a bank account with your entire life savings and investments?

Whaat if it's all of the above?

Yeah, no reason to wait for a conviction.  Let's destroy people's lives and make them put up even more money/property for a bond for the privilege of fighting a bogus forfeiture.
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

zippz

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 11:52:48 AM »
Governor is announcing his Veto list at 1:30pm today on Facebook live

"News Conference today, Tuesday, July 9 at 1:30 PM on VETO deadline"

https://www.facebook.com/GovernorDavidIge

Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

groveler

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 12:53:47 PM »
Soapbox, ballot box, cartridge box.
Y'all think cops are your friends?
My tack is to make sure our cops are the worst paid,
lowest morale, and fewest per capita, in America,
and I intend to do this legally.
In fact I'll propose since the general population is dis-armed
and so crime free,  our cops should be dis-armed excepted
for special teams to called upon to de-fuse "extraordinary"
situations.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 01:01:37 PM by groveler »

punaperson

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 01:31:14 PM »
Governor is announcing his Veto list at 1:30pm today on Facebook live

"News Conference today, Tuesday, July 9 at 1:30 PM on VETO deadline"

https://www.facebook.com/GovernorDavidIge
"NEW START TIME: News Conference on Veto deadline pushed back to 2:30PM."

The suspense is killing me!  :rofl:

punaperson

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 05:57:55 PM »
As suspected, he vetoed it. They want your shit... whether you get convicted as a criminal or not, or even charged.

https://governor.hawaii.gov/newsroom/latest-news/office-of-the-governor-news-release-governor-ige-vetoes-18-measures-two-will-become-law-without-his-siganture/

mrgaf

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2019, 12:38:04 PM »
Maybe they can override Kermit D. Dickheads veto but probably won’t....
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

changemyoil66

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2019, 01:16:03 PM »
So wouldn't this negate the red flag law?

groveler

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2019, 11:49:49 AM »
I watched a movie the "untochables"
The other day. In which a cop goes to extra
legal measures to visit his justice
on a known crook.
I have the same question for the readers
here " what are you willing to do?".
I do not encourage anybody to violate the law.
I do encourage everybody to not cooperate
with the law.  Don't cooperate with cops,
Don't talk to them.  They are not human.
Treat them as agents of an out of control
government.  Like the Waffen SS was in Germany.
Cheat the taxman every way you can
buy everything on Ebay.
Do everything on a under table cash basis.
Starve the beast.
If you do not support the beast
it will not prevail.
Government is necessary, but government
not afraid of the people, is tyranny.

hvybarrels

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2019, 12:39:42 PM »
My mind has changed about taxes. People should be willing to pay for the services they get, and if the funds are squandered and misused it is our fault for allowing it to happen. The environment of corruption in Hawaii is made possible by the apathy of the citizens and cheating on taxes will not change that. They will only find more draconian ways to extract the money from us via microchip implants, 24/7 surveillance, etc. Tax avoidance is like taking an aspirin to fight cancer. It might provide to some temporary relief but we need to address the disease and not just they symptoms if our long term goal is to return to a healthy state.
The purpose of today's training is to defeat yesterday's understanding. -Miyamoto Musashi

punaperson

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2019, 12:57:53 PM »
My mind has changed about taxes. People should be willing to pay for the services they get, and if the funds are squandered and misused it is our fault for allowing it to happen. The environment of corruption in Hawaii is made possible by the apathy of the citizens and cheating on taxes will not change that. They will only find more draconian ways to extract the money from us via microchip implants, 24/7 surveillance, etc. Tax avoidance is like taking an aspirin to fight cancer. It might provide to some temporary relief but we need to address the disease and not just they symptoms if our long term goal is to return to a healthy state.
So, exactly, precisely, how do we "address the disease"? Because it appears to me all we have, in the real world, are aspirin.

hvybarrels

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2019, 01:46:05 PM »
The process is already underway. The Kealohas would have been protected if it were possible, but public sentiment is at such an all time low that the Powers That Be had to throw them under the bus. Everyone who had their hands in the cookie jar is under an incredible amount of pressure and Ige is in real trouble if he decides to run again.

The most important thing we can do right now is not undermine our own credibility in the eyes of the public. For years the PTB have accused us of being all kinds of evil but now it turns out they are the ones who were the true danger to society. We finally have a chance to prove that our values are compatible with the mainstream. If you are unable to figure out how to make a positive contribution that is fine, but please do not engage in the kind of unhelpful commentary that makes the rest of us look like adolescents throwing a temper tantrum.
The purpose of today's training is to defeat yesterday's understanding. -Miyamoto Musashi

punaperson

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2019, 02:58:45 PM »
The process is already underway. The Kealohas would have been protected if it were possible, but public sentiment is at such an all time low that the Powers That Be had to throw them under the bus. Everyone who had their hands in the cookie jar is under an incredible amount of pressure and Ige is in real trouble if he decides to run again.

The most important thing we can do right now is not undermine our own credibility in the eyes of the public. For years the PTB have accused us of being all kinds of evil but now it turns out they are the ones who were the true danger to society. We finally have a chance to prove that our values are compatible with the mainstream. If you are unable to figure out how to make a positive contribution that is fine, but please do not engage in the kind of unhelpful commentary that makes the rest of us look like adolescents throwing a temper tantrum.
I asked a simple question ("So, exactly, precisely, how do we "address the disease"?"), based upon your previous comment. I don't see an answer to that question in your response above, instead telling me I shouldn't question you. How about an actual simple answer? And while your at it, please tell us exactly who the "Powers That Be" (that are responsible for "throwing the Kealohas under the bus") are. Or is no one supposed to ask that question either?

So, what, Ige's gonna re-write Hawaii law by executive order and run for a third term? Or did you mean Ige's gonna "run again" for some other office?

hvybarrels

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2019, 04:42:12 PM »
I asked a simple question ("So, exactly, precisely, how do we "address the disease"?"), based upon your previous comment. I don't see an answer to that question in your response above, instead telling me I shouldn't question you. How about an actual simple answer? And while your at it, please tell us exactly who the "Powers That Be" (that are responsible for "throwing the Kealohas under the bus") are. Or is no one supposed to ask that question either?

So, what, Ige's gonna re-write Hawaii law by executive order and run for a third term? Or did you mean Ige's gonna "run again" for some other office?

I am not the enemy. Just because you give up so easily does not give you the right to drag everyone else down. One problem I have noticed with some people here is that they strongly identify with being political outsiders. If their conservative views went mainstream they would be miserable and might even shift to the left just to be different.  Is it more important to stand up for ones values and possibly fail or to wallow in a false sense of self importance and be completely successful?
The purpose of today's training is to defeat yesterday's understanding. -Miyamoto Musashi

punaperson

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2019, 09:03:43 AM »
I am not the enemy. Just because you give up so easily does not give you the right to drag everyone else down. One problem I have noticed with some people here is that they strongly identify with being political outsiders. If their conservative views went mainstream they would be miserable and might even shift to the left just to be different.  Is it more important to stand up for ones values and possibly fail or to wallow in a false sense of self importance and be completely successful?
What delusional irrelevancies are you rambling on about? Just answer the simple question that has now been repeated. What, is it a big secret how you're going to "address the disease"? Also, I notice you don't respond to the questioning of your claim that Ige may "run again". Is that a secret too, or you just don't want to admit that you don't know the basic facts (governor limited to two terms, Ige has already been elected to two terms)? Quit diverting and clarify your claim to have some workable strategy that the rest of us don't know about.

hvybarrels

Re: HB 748 Asset Forfeiture Reform
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2019, 10:10:59 AM »
My number one suggestion to anyone who desires to be successful is to quit thinking like a loser. My second suggestion is if you do not have the imagination to see the opportunity in this crisis then at least do the rest of us a favor by not childishly advocating tax evasion, killing cops, or other illegal activities that ruin this rare chance to gain the moral high ground in the eyes of the public, who are now thoroughly disgusted with the corruption and tyranny that we have been warning them about for years.
The purpose of today's training is to defeat yesterday's understanding. -Miyamoto Musashi