I am not Hawaiian blood, nor a scientist, so I don't feel as one that can hold a valid opinion on the subject. I am, However,  born and raised here and hapa, mixed of many races and cultures.  I've been taught and can respect many cultures, and I can respect the wishes of those who are in opposition.  I look at is like someone burning down my church to build something secular over it.  Wouldn't that give one outrage? 

Any way. Opportunity was there to make a change, by electing known opponents to this project,  yet opportunity was wasted on complacency, which rears its ugly head every election cycle.  Nothing but excuses and more excuses.  Complaints about how its corrupt and votes won't change anything, blah blah blah...  yeah sure it won't, because NO ONE VOTES! 

People expect things to get better, yet want to maintain the "ainokea" attitude?  Lol. Good luck with that.  I'm not opposed to TMT, and not opposed to people being respected either.

My hope is that such energies, as being expended now, are equally used to exercise such rights, and change leadership, when the time is proper....

I think protesting the telescope is just an excuse for all the anger about US Imperialism and Colonialism.
No one took a step back to think about what they are protesting

I think protesting the telescope is just an excuse for all the anger about US Imperialism and Colonialism.
No one took a step back to think about what they are protesting

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 I think what you said is true.
I believe the only reason my kids are going to Waikiki today is because my niece is like a "pushy" local activist.
 They just following the cousin.

https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/zip/d/honolulu-free-gas-masks/6936501550.html

 

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 I think what you said is true.
I believe the only reason my kids are going to Waikiki today is because my niece is like a "pushy" local activist.
 They just following the cousin.

explains our low voter turnout.
I was told to "get educated" about the issue with the TMT from a fellow co worker. I explained my points about the advancement of science, jobs creation, exploration.etc.  then the personal attacks came. "Fuck you and your logic" "I no care about your logically explanation"
I'm willing to bet that if a superior race visited Earth ala "The Day the Earth stood Still" and told us to build a telescope somewhere to save our planet there would still be opponents of it.

But anyways, what does this have to do with our fight for 2A rights? - absolutely nothing. IF the govt. had a mass confiscation of all weapons there wouldn't be a whisper of anything. Long lines of people willing to comply with the same wishy-washy govt. willing to forego with a telescope project.

Imagine if we had the same momentum with 2A rights...govt. would squash it quickly.

so much for the advancement of science

And waste of tax payer funds.  At least the lua companies making money and the drivers getting lot of OT, so all is not lost.  They better start putting dumpsters up there so they can at least try and keep their sacred grounds clean.

I wish a survey would be done for all those there to see if they voted and who they voted for. Again, this project didnt happen over night.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

This is the TMT Timeline and some are asking for more time.
http://www.maunakeaandtmt.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/TMT.Timeline.2019.pdf

I have to give the protesters credit. As long as I have been here a very
small part of the community have wanted to destroy
the Astronomy facilities on the summit.  This is due to the sacredness
of a million year old volcano discovered and occupied by a people
only 800 years ago.
They have shut it down now.
I now longer derive income from the summit,
so it doesn't affect me. I could care less if you removed
all the observatories from the summit, which is the
protesters goal BTW.
When I was in the industry, I said the TMT would never be built.
They understated the costs at the Critical Design Review AND
they didn't want to payoff the locals, The Hawaiians that "worship"
the summit.
I suggested that they hire only people of Hawaiian
decent to provide 24/7 security and maintain the facility.
Then there would be no protests.
It is all about money, pure, and simple.
Many problems( protests) were solved when the people running Mauna Kea
facilities hired "Rangers" of the correct "cultural" background to patrol the summit.
I may seem jaded, but I remember what went on with the Keck outriggers.

So, are the people claiming the mountain is sacred barred from practicing their religion? Are they blocked from using the mountain after the telescope is built? Do they even use the mountain now?

If they are practicing their religion on the mountain now, and there are already telescopes there, then there's no reason to believe the TMT will change that.  In fact, several telescopes will be decommissioned and removed after the TMT is operational.

There are at least a dozen Mauna Kea / TMT Protest campaigns on GoFundMe.com.  Some as high as $25K and $50K.  Some were started a year or more ago.  Some are just to help pay travel expenses of people wanting to go protest on the mountain.

I wonder who's receiving the money raised for the protestors, and where it's being spent.

I wish a survey would be done for all those there to see if they voted and who they voted for. Again, this project didnt happen over night.

This clown act is a shining example of what "low information voters" are.

So, are the people claiming the mountain is sacred barred from practicing their religion? Are they blocked from using the mountain after the telescope is built? Do they even use the mountain now?

If they are practicing their religion on the mountain now, and there are already telescopes there, then there's no reason to believe the TMT will change that.  In fact, several telescopes will be decommissioned and removed after the TMT is operational.

There are at least a dozen Mauna Kea / TMT Protest campaigns on GoFundMe.com.  Some as high as $25K and $50K.  Some were started a year or more ago.  Some are just to help pay travel expenses of people wanting to go protest on the mountain.

I wonder who's receiving the money raised for the protestors, and where it's being spent.

It's a shakedown.
AOC and Bernie Sanders, the same people who push science claims about climate change are for protesting a telescope. Hypocrites.
The people who are protesting are just pawns for the people wanting to get money out of it. Easily manipulated.

If they want to protest, fine. I support their right, however when they start blocking roads and harassing people etc, then I draw the line. Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal? Not qualified to speculate but seems to me maybe we don’t need the TMT.   

Would you consider the TMT a modern temple?

If they want to protest, fine. I support their right, however when they start blocking roads and harassing people etc, then I draw the line. Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal? Not qualified to speculate but seems to me maybe we don’t need the TMT.   

Nobody needs an AR-15,

or an SUV,

or a 32 oz soft drink.

According to the specs, the TMT will offer TWLEVE TIMES the resolution of the best telescope in the world today. 

TMT has a 30-meter (98 feet) diameter primary mirror.  At it's focal ratio of f/1, that gives it a 30-meter focal length (aperture).

Keck has a 10-meter primary mirror.

With plans to go to Mars and beyond, it makes sense to use state of the art telescopes rather than relying on decades old technology and observatories.

Not about a telescope ....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/standoff-on-hawaii-mountain-is-about-more-than-a-telescope/ar-AAECdae

If they want to protest, fine. I support their right, however when they start blocking roads and harassing people etc, then I draw the line. Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal? Not qualified to speculate but seems to me maybe we don’t need the TMT.   

I'll try to answer your questions, I've been out of the loop for a few years but all the rationals still exist.
" Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal"
Hubble is nearly dead and is barely working, I think if one more Gyro fails it will be useless.
The replacement, The James Web space telescope is way over cost and they are having some
very real technical problems, I'm not sure they will every get over them.
Keck I and II are awesome facilities. Fairly up to date.
They had a mirror cracking problem I'm not sure they have fixed yet.
There are also limits as to what they can do to update the telescope itself
to deal with Keck's physical limitations eg wind shake. The summit gets very windy.

In Astronomy the more Photons you can gather
repeatedly on the same detector Pixel 13 micrometers( or less) across the better.
Keck is ten meters across. TMT is thirty meters across.  that is a significant increase in
area to gather photons.  TMT is also designed to compensate for problems large
telescopes like Keck, et al have.
The Astronomical community figured the billion dollar Plus cost of the TMT is  worth the effort.
India, China, Japan, Canada, et al seem to agree as they are heavily invested in the TMT.

Do we need the TMT?  In astronomy all you are doing is studying history.
Studying galaxies that may not exist anymore as their light took 13 billion years to get here.
What good does that do?
Why go to the moon?  Why go to Mars?

The answer is because somebody is willing to pay for it,
because they want it, not because they need it.
Personally I thought the TMT money would be better spent
eradicating cancer, but that isn't as sexy as finding binary
Black holes in a far off Galaxy.

Hope that helps some.

Nobody needs an AR-15,

or an SUV,

or a 32 oz soft drink.

According to the specs, the TMT will offer TWLEVE TIMES the resolution of the best telescope in the world today. 

TMT has a 30-meter (98 feet) diameter primary mirror.  At it's focal ratio of f/1, that gives it a 30-meter focal length (aperture).b

Keck has a 10-meter primary mirror.

With plans to go to Mars and beyond, it makes sense to use state of the art telescopes rather than relying on decades old technology and observatories.

Most large telescopes aren't used for that.   Old observatories work just fine.
In 1769 Captain Cook observed the transit of Venus across the sun in order to allow
us to figure out the size of our known solar system.  That is why he was sent to Tahiti.
The data gathered was pretty accurate.

Most large telescopes aren't used for that.   Old observatories work just fine.
In 1769 Captain Cook observed the transit of Venus across the sun in order to allow
us to figure out the size of our known solar system.  That is why he was sent to Tahiti.
The data gathered was pretty accurate.

We used to get around pretty good on railroads, too.

There are numerous discoveries that were made using math and limited observation techniques.  That doesn't mean we should limit ourselves to what was used decades or centuries ago.

We won't know what we will find until we find it, and technology that didn't exist 10 or 20 years ago might be the thing that makes those discoveries possible.

Old observatories are hindered by the limits of their generation.

New technologies in computers, software, electronics, and manufacturing can let us make mirrors better, lighter and more powerful than we could before.  The TMT is also a multinational venture, sharing the cost and the scientific brainpower of several nations to better enable the TMT's construction and use.

And old observatories might be able to "do that now", but the TMT will be able to do it at twelve times the resolution.  That's significant when tracking objects or monitoring the surface of Mars.

my kids are going the protest in Waikiki today...I told them "sure go ahead, but they better be sure they know what they are protesting about and don't make trouble."

That would be "a small minority, if they have the "right" DNA, has the right to impose and dictate to the majority what they may and may not do"?