Maunakea TMT Protests (Read 272999 times)

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #460 on: August 06, 2019, 02:47:03 PM »
Still breaking the law and getting away with it.

what's a nation with out arms to defend itself with?
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #461 on: August 06, 2019, 08:01:14 PM »
Still breaking the law and getting away with it.

Are you sure?  FCC violations have to be investigated first.  It could take months before anyone knows if they've "gotten away with it."
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #462 on: August 06, 2019, 08:10:49 PM »
I didn’t say gotten, I said getting.  For now anyway.  In the old CB radio days the FCC would come down heavy on those who boosted their radios.
Happily living in Puna

omnigun

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #463 on: August 06, 2019, 10:26:19 PM »
FCC enforcement is usually a fine or letter to stop doing whatever you're doing.

Big whoop.

Would be funny as fuck if they came in with tanks and ran over the tent, destroying all the equipment after chasing them all out.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #464 on: August 06, 2019, 11:07:54 PM »
If we are looking at this issue from a historical and legal perspective, there should be none.  Under the rule of Kamehameha II, the Kapu system was officially abolished, along with the abandoning the worship of all pre-European contact religious deities, and the adoption of Christianity as the unofficial State religion.  Although the Kingdom of Hawaii allowed the freedom of religion, most Hawaiians like myself, have since adopted the Christian faith.  In the last 20 years or so, however, there has been more Hawaiians who have seem to convert back to worshiping our ancient deities of the past.

As to the question as to how many Hawaiians actually think the mauna is sacred, I am sure those who have begun practicing our ancient religions, the mauna is very sacred to them.  However, I would argue the majority of us view the mountain with the same respect as most people would see the Notre-Dame Cathedral.


I must give you credit as you seem well informed on the history.

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #465 on: August 07, 2019, 12:13:58 PM »
Gee, who coulda guessed this? Apparently not Ige or Lyin' Harry or absent Ferreira...

Those highly unfavorable (53%, two and a half times as many as approve) numbers for Ige mean that even most of the people that voted for him are against him. What an ass. His cowardly capitulation to the superstitious racist criminals is only shining a further light on his total incompetence.

Civil Beat Poll: Strong Support For TMT But Little Love For Ige

https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/civil-beat-poll-strong-support-for-tmt-but-little-love-for-ige/

By a more than 2-to-1 margin — 64% to 31% — of registered voters in Hawaii who were polled say they favor building the state-of-the-art telescope, most of them strongly in support. Only 3% say they are unsure while another 3% say the issue does not matter to them.

They also do not like how Gov. David Ige has handled the TMT issue.

Ige said in June that the state had issued a “notice to proceed” on the project, and last month said construction would begin July 15. When that didn’t happen, the governor issued an emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea that he later rescinded.

Only 21% of those surveyed have a positive opinion of the governor’s leadership on the issue compared to 53% who hold negative views.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #466 on: August 07, 2019, 01:41:03 PM »
Gee, who coulda guessed this? Apparently not Ige or Lyin' Harry or absent Ferreira...

Those highly unfavorable (53%, two and a half times as many as approve) numbers for Ige mean that even most of the people that voted for him are against him. What an ass. His cowardly capitulation to the superstitious racist criminals is only shining a further light on his total incompetence.

Civil Beat Poll: Strong Support For TMT But Little Love For Ige

https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/civil-beat-poll-strong-support-for-tmt-but-little-love-for-ige/

By a more than 2-to-1 margin — 64% to 31% — of registered voters in Hawaii who were polled say they favor building the state-of-the-art telescope, most of them strongly in support. Only 3% say they are unsure while another 3% say the issue does not matter to them.

They also do not like how Gov. David Ige has handled the TMT issue.

Ige said in June that the state had issued a “notice to proceed” on the project, and last month said construction would begin July 15. When that didn’t happen, the governor issued an emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea that he later rescinded.

Only 21% of those surveyed have a positive opinion of the governor’s leadership on the issue compared to 53% who hold negative views.

Somehow many people fail to understand how making a commitment to something like construction involves significant costs, especially in Hawaii where not everyone doing the work is local.  How many people do you think live on the Big Island are actually doing the construction, supervision, etc. for such a specialized project?

When Ige gave the project the green light, he was giving assurances the construction would, not just could, proceed.  His lack of enforcing the laws of the state is beyond incompetence.  I wouldn't be surprised if the tax payers have to foot the bill for all the money lost waiting on the state to clear the roads -- that's on top of the direct costs already for law enforcement (or lack of), trips to the Big Island to show they are "doing something", and loss of normal economic activity for people working there.

Governors are supposed to govern, not be held hostage after a decade of working to the final decision.  The decision was made.  People trusted Ige.  Now it's a total cluster.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #467 on: August 07, 2019, 01:49:07 PM »
I guess both Ige and Caldwell don't care how popular they are since both cannot run for their respective positions again.  Hey, maybe Caldwell will run for Gov and Ige for Mayor.
Happily living in Puna

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #468 on: August 07, 2019, 04:08:44 PM »
Read it and weep. It's only a matter of time. The socialist loons amassing at the border and waiting for the geezers to die off. Who knows how much more of the state will be turned over to the whims of the superstitious racists? One things for sure, the ability to exercise Second Amendment-protected rights will wither and perhaps die altogether. I won't be here to see it, but I hope they get what they deserve.

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #469 on: August 07, 2019, 04:46:58 PM »
The most ridiculous thing I have seen going on up there is the State and LEOs asking the protesters permission to pass their blockade. 
Happily living in Puna

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #470 on: August 07, 2019, 06:16:01 PM »
The most ridiculous thing I have seen going on up there is the State and LEOs asking the protesters permission to pass their blockade.

I guess they have read the evidence and have assented to as to whom has the rightful jurisdiction on the mauna.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #471 on: August 07, 2019, 06:37:33 PM »

I guess they have read the evidence and have assented to as to whom has the rightful jurisdiction on the mauna.


Yeah. That HAS to be it.

 :wacko:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #472 on: August 07, 2019, 06:47:00 PM »
Will taxpayers ultimately pay for the mounting cost for
agencies dealing with the conflict on Mauna Kea?


Video:

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/video/2019/08/08/will-taxpayers-ultimately-pay-mounting-cost-agencies-dealing-with-conflict-mauna-kea/

Quote
Hawaii County council members say they were surprised to see how much the Big Island has spent over a two week period.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #473 on: August 07, 2019, 07:01:20 PM »

I guess they have read the evidence and have assented to as to whom has the rightful jurisdiction on the mauna.


they could have their own ICBMs along with their college and radio station.
Deeds Not Words

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #474 on: August 07, 2019, 07:07:59 PM »
Will taxpayers ultimately pay for the mounting cost for
agencies dealing with the conflict on Mauna Kea?

Video:
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/video/2019/08/08/will-taxpayers-ultimately-pay-mounting-cost-agencies-dealing-with-conflict-mauna-kea/

We already paying for these happily unemployed people's EBT cards and Sec 8 housing.
Happily living in Puna

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #475 on: August 07, 2019, 07:54:02 PM »
The superstitious racist criminal liars have no shame... typical. The will lie about anything to promote their narrative of victimology.

[To see the actual photo]: https://www.ilind.net/2019/08/07/a-bit-of-fake-news-from-the-protectors/

A bit of fake news from the protectors

Posted on August 7, 2019 by Ian Lind |

Perhaps that headline is a bit too strong. Perhaps not meant as fake news, but clearly this photo is an example of a very creative, fictional recreation of a past event. The photo is real. The story is not.

This photo surfaced on Facebook yesterday in a post apparently aimed at “protectors” of Mauna Kea.

The caption tells a tale.

PROTECTORS FROM 1974 NEAR MAUNA KEA ROAD GOING UP WAIKI’I ROAD – one of the first stand off’s regarding the telescopes.
Uncle Sonny Kaniho, Uncle Andrew Akau along with almost all the Parker Ranch workers & there families, this is one of my first memories of my daddy standing to stop the trucks from bringing up the stuff for build the telescopes.

It does seem to have struck a chord. By early this morning, it had drawn 100 comments and had been shared over 1,000 times.

It is indeed a photo of Sonny Kaniho and Andrew Akau in 1974. No offense meant, but the caption is fiction. The photo has absolutely nothing to do with any telescopes, or stopping trucks from going up the road. That’s definitely a false narrative.

How do I know that it’s a fake story? It’s my photo. It contains my digital watermark. I took the photo back in 1974, during a protest high up on the Big Island’s Parker Ranch.

Kaniho was protesting policies of the Hawaiian Homes Commission and Department of Hawaiian Home Lands that resulted in land being leased to private interests while thousands of Hawaiians sat on waiting lists for years, even decades, for homestead leases on some of the same lands.

Kaniho’s protest involved removing a gate to a Parker Ranch pasture which was held under a lease from DHHL, entering the area, and symbolically claiming it for himself and other Hawaiians who were waiting endlessly for land.

I was among a group of supporters who accompanied Kaniho and were cited for trespassing.

The case was heard later in 1974 at the courthouse in Waimea. During the trial, it was disclosed that the lease on that parcel had expired and that it technically was now public land, not Parker Ranch land. Trespass charges were dismissed.

A small but important event in the history of Hawaiian activism. But it had nothing at all to do with telescopes or protecting Mauna Kea. That story was a work of creative fiction, or perhaps just memory being recreated for modern times.

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #476 on: August 07, 2019, 07:57:49 PM »
A few more examples of blatant lying by the superstitious racists in service of their false narrative of victimhood.

Here provided by Ken Conklin in response to Mr. Lind's article above:

Hawaiian sovereignty activists have a long history of successfully perpetrating fake news for political purposes. Here are 3 heavily documented examples, significant because of the widespread and apparently authoritative (ab)use of the falsehoods:

——

The myth of the shredded Hawaiian flag — a false claim that the Hawaiian flag removed from Iolani Palace on annexation day August 12, 1898 was cut up into pieces distributed to the annexationists as souvenirs of their victory over the Hawaiian people
Why the false story of the shredded hawaiian flag is important; how the story got started, what it says, and evidence that it is widespread (including senator Akaka telling the falsehood on the floor of the Senate in 1990 and senator Inouye telling the falsehood on the floor of the Senate in 1993); Evidence that the story is false; proof that some activists choose to perpetuate this story, knowing it is false, just to stir up anger over alleged historical grievances (actual dialogue among sovereignty activists during the annexation’s centennial commemoration in 1998). Webpage at
https://tinyurl.com/oj7n4m

———

Twisting History — Reverend Kaleo Patterson used a Grover Cleveland proclamation from 1894 which he knew was fake, cited it as fact, and used it as the basis for a media blitz in 2006 in Hawaii and on the mainland calling for a national day of prayer for restoration of Native Hawaiians and repentance for the overthrow of the monarchy. He repeated his local and mainland propaganda campaign in 2007 and pushed a resolution through the Hawaii legislature citing the joke proclamation as real. In 2008 the Honolulu Star-Bulletin published a story describing the Cleveland proclamation as a fact and refused to publish a correction. In 2010 Patterson made a trip to Caldwell N.J. (tomb of Grover Cleveland) in furtherance of his hoax, where the town council gave him a check for $2920 to defray his expenses.
https://tinyurl.com/k38tm

4-page flyer poking fun at the legislature for passing Patterson’s fake-news resolution, including proof that Grover Cleveland’s alleged proclamation was a Republican newspaper’s sarcasm against Cleveland rather than a tue proclamation:
https://tinyurl.com/2tj5jl

——-

The O’ahu weekly newspaper “Midweek” published a major article in 2 parts over a 2 week period asserting that Mauna Ala (Royal Mausoleum) was exempted from the Organic Act and remains the sovereign land of the Kingdom of Hawaii where the laws of the U.S. and State of Hawaii do not apply. The article is copied in full to show that the claim is asserted as serious fact, and then that claim is debunked with strong evidence.
https://tinyurl.com/5rtmy

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #477 on: August 07, 2019, 08:12:38 PM »
We already paying for these happily unemployed people's EBT cards and Sec 8 housing.

but why would they need housing if they claim Mauna Kea?
Deeds Not Words

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #478 on: August 07, 2019, 09:23:58 PM »
but why would they need housing if they claim Mauna Kea?
Because it is usually cold, windy and desolate.  Not a place people would like to live.
Happily living in Puna

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #479 on: August 07, 2019, 09:47:40 PM »
Because it is usually cold, windy and desolate.  Not a place people would like to live.
Good thing their gods and goddesses are not effected by such mundane matters.