Maunakea TMT Protests (Read 272966 times)

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #480 on: August 08, 2019, 03:50:05 PM »
I was happy to see a pro TMT ad on TV this morning.  It featured a native Hawaiian who has been a navigator using the stars like the ancient Hawaiians and sailing with the Hokulea for the past 40 years.  They need to put out many more of these ads to show the majority are in favor of TMT.
Happily living in Puna

Mdotweber

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #481 on: August 08, 2019, 04:11:00 PM »
KSSK also running a pro TMT add with a young aspiring astronomer of Hawaiian decent.
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #482 on: August 09, 2019, 02:07:54 PM »
Letter in today's Tribune-Herald:

The claim game

It is an indisputable fact that many years ago a group of foreigners came to the peaceful Hawaiian Islands and overthrew their local governments and way of life, enslaving them and taking away all of their rights to self-rule.

They did this with the help of waves of their fellow foreigners, overpowering the Hawaiian people with their “might makes right” philosophy and many acts of violence. Arguably, the Hawaiian people have never recovered from this oppression.

Unless one agrees that “might makes right,” these foreign oppressors cannot claim any legal rights or moral standing in these islands, and the government they erected on the ashes of the real Hawaiian people’s culture has no claims to the control of any land or assets here.

Of course, these foreign invaders were the Tahitians, and the government they imposed on the peaceful Hawaiians was the slave state of Kamehameha.

No one who respects the real Hawaiian people can claim any cultural or religious rights to Maunakea or anything else in Hawaii based on the results of a 14-year war of domination of Kamehameha, who the real Hawaiians did not respect or want as their king, often fighting hand-to-hand with his racist warriors and being killed or enslaved.

Truth matters.

Carl Oguss

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #483 on: August 09, 2019, 03:09:22 PM »
What is a “real” Hawaiian?  One with 100% Hawaiian ancestry?  Or one who “feels” Hawaiian, like Walter Ritte who has more Caucasian than Hawaiian. 
Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #484 on: August 09, 2019, 03:12:49 PM »
What is a “real” Hawaiian?  One with 100% Hawaiian ancestry?  Or one who “feels” Hawaiian, like Walter Ritte who has more Caucasian than Hawaiian.

i drank Hawaiian Punch for years and years growing up.  That should qualify me!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #485 on: August 09, 2019, 03:44:30 PM »
What is a “real” Hawaiian?  One with 100% Hawaiian ancestry?  Or one who “feels” Hawaiian, like Walter Ritte who has more Caucasian than Hawaiian.
For the purposes of Mr. Oguss's commentary, he's referring to the people inhabiting these islands prior to the arrival of the wave of invaders (of whom the current "activists" are likely almost all descended from, if at all descended from inhabitants prior to several hundred years ago) who killed and/or enslaved all those prior residents... thus making a mockery of their absurd claims that they are entitled to special treatment and control of all of Hawaii because they were the "original" inhabitants.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #486 on: August 09, 2019, 04:09:02 PM »
My mom is Tahitian.
Deeds Not Words

groveler

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #487 on: August 09, 2019, 04:25:15 PM »
Letter in today's Tribune-Herald:

The claim game

It is an indisputable fact that many years ago a group of foreigners came to the peaceful Hawaiian Islands and overthrew their local governments and way of life, enslaving them and taking away all of their rights to self-rule.

They did this with the help of waves of their fellow foreigners, overpowering the Hawaiian people with their “might makes right” philosophy and many acts of violence. Arguably, the Hawaiian people have never recovered from this oppression.

Unless one agrees that “might makes right,” these foreign oppressors cannot claim any legal rights or moral standing in these islands, and the government they erected on the ashes of the real Hawaiian people’s culture has no claims to the control of any land or assets here.

Of course, these foreign invaders were the Tahitians, and the government they imposed on the peaceful Hawaiians was the slave state of Kamehameha.

No one who respects the real Hawaiian people can claim any cultural or religious rights to Maunakea or anything else in Hawaii based on the results of a 14-year war of domination of Kamehameha, who the real Hawaiians did not respect or want as their king, often fighting hand-to-hand with his racist warriors and being killed or enslaved.

Truth matters.

Carl Oguss
Just some added notes.
"Kamehameha soon used his relationships with traders to build up an armory of Western weapons,
 trading Hawaii's much coveted sandalwood for arms. Over time, he and his army were able to use
their superior firepower to take charge of most of the Hawaiian islands"
Kamehameha would not have been able to defeat
his opponents without us.
We are part of Hawaiian history,
not invaders.


ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #488 on: August 09, 2019, 04:27:22 PM »
Just some added notes.
"Kamehameha soon used his relationships with traders to build up an armory of Western weapons,
 trading Hawaii's much coveted sandalwood for arms. Over time, he and his army were able to use
their superior firepower to take charge of most of the Hawaiian islands"
Kamehameha would not have been able to defeat
his opponents without us.
We are part of Hawaiian history,
not invaders.

all these facts should be posted on social media...because then it would be news...
well, in short bullet comments because the attention span and reading capability of some people are measured in grains....
Deeds Not Words

groveler

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #489 on: August 09, 2019, 04:35:29 PM »
all these facts should be posted on social media...because then it would be news...
well, in short bullet comments because the attention span and reading capability of some people are measured in grains....
Ren
This is part of my "social media".

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #490 on: August 09, 2019, 05:07:39 PM »
Ren
This is part of my "social media".
#metoo.  I no do Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc.  2A Hawaii is the only place I post anything.
Happily living in Puna

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #491 on: August 09, 2019, 10:00:06 PM »
Just some added notes.
We are part of Hawaiian history,
not invaders.

Yes, you are a part of Hawaiian history.  You are residents who are residing in an illegally occupied nation.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #492 on: August 09, 2019, 10:18:24 PM »
Letter in today's Tribune-Herald:

The claim game

It is an indisputable fact that many years ago a group of foreigners came to the peaceful Hawaiian Islands and overthrew their local governments and way of life, enslaving them and taking away all of their rights to self-rule.

They did this with the help of waves of their fellow foreigners, overpowering the Hawaiian people with their “might makes right” philosophy and many acts of violence. Arguably, the Hawaiian people have never recovered from this oppression.

Really, where did this author get this information?  A one-sided  American history book?


Unless one agrees that “might makes right,” these foreign oppressors cannot claim any legal rights or moral standing in these islands, and the government they erected on the ashes of the real Hawaiian people’s culture has no claims to the control of any land or assets here.

Of course, these foreign invaders were the Tahitians, and the government they imposed on the peaceful Hawaiians was the slave state of Kamehameha.

This author really likes twisting the truth.  Did he come up with this commentary by himself?

This author should tread carefully when he speaks of Kamehameha the Great.



No one who respects the real Hawaiian people can claim any cultural or religious rights to Maunakea or anything else in Hawaii based on the results of a 14-year war of domination of Kamehameha, who the real Hawaiians did not respect or want as their king, often fighting hand-to-hand with his racist warriors and being killed or enslaved.

And how does he know that?  Did he go back in history and tracked down the aboriginal population of these islands and asked them their views of Kamehameha the Great?


Truth matters.

Yes it does, but this author definitely does not know the truth.


Carl Oguss

Oh, by-the-way, if you really want to belittle Hawaiian history and insult Kamehameha the Great, you need to do better than post the opinions of a psychology professor and owner of the East Hawaii Dog Psychology Center.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #493 on: August 09, 2019, 10:53:04 PM »
Blah blah blah

So, are you going to be writing a scathing letter to the Tribune-Herald, too?  Maybe you should be attacking -- I don't know .... maybe  -- THE SOURCE of the article and not someone who simply shared the article.

Being triggered can be disorienting, but you should reconsider whether you are arguing for your perspective of THE ISSUE, or simply arguing with the person posting the comment.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #494 on: August 09, 2019, 10:56:07 PM »
Yes, you are a part of Hawaiian history.  You are residents who are residing in an illegally occupied nation.

The exact same thing is true of all Hawaiians residing here if we grant that the nation is illegally occupied.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #495 on: August 09, 2019, 10:56:49 PM »
Blah, Blah, Blah

Yeah, I am tired of your obvious hatred of anything Hawaiian too.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #496 on: August 09, 2019, 10:58:57 PM »
Yeah, I am tired of your obvious hatred of anything Hawaiian too.

Hatred?  You say that like you believe I even care.   :sleeping:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #497 on: August 09, 2019, 10:59:19 PM »
The exact same thing is true of all Hawaiians residing here if we grant that the nation is illegally occupied.

Coming from a self-admitted admirer of former President Barack Obama, I am surprised you are still posting on a pro-2A forum.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #498 on: August 09, 2019, 11:00:20 PM »
Hatred?  You say that like you believe I even care.   :sleeping:

Exactly my point.  Let all see that you do hate all Hawaiians.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #499 on: August 09, 2019, 11:05:15 PM »
Exactly my point.  Let all see that you do hate all Hawaiians.

That's a strong accusation.  I assume you have more than a personal, racist, biased opinion to base that on?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw