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Maunakea TMT Protests (Read 272991 times)

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #760 on: September 04, 2019, 09:21:04 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 04, 2019, 08:38:41 PM

Hawaiians are not playing the victim card.

The nation state of Hawaii is an internationally recognized country that is being illegally occupied by the US and that is the underlying reason Hawaiians have and will continue to be angry.

Angry but not in distress.
While there are real people in distress, i.e. the Bahamas; your nation is in distress because an international coalition of scientists want to build a one-of-a-kind telescope on Mauna Kea. Stand in "solidarity" with the vocal and oppressive minority? Same thing as protesting the first Chick Fil-A in Hawaii. Want to protest something meaningful? Something symbolic of "illegal occupation"? There are many on this island alone.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 09:28:39 PM by ren »
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Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #761 on: September 04, 2019, 10:11:47 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 04, 2019, 08:38:41 PM

Hawaiians are not playing the victim card.

The nation state of Hawaii is an internationally recognized country that is being illegally occupied by the US and that is the underlying reason Hawaiians have and will continue to be angry.

Sure they're not playing the victim card.  Not at all.  Certainly there's no evidence of that.

Hawaiian Kingdom Blog
Weblog of the acting government of the Hawaiian Kingdom
presently operating within the occupied State of the Hawaiian Islands.

Quote
Under International Law Native Hawaiians are Victims of Genocide
Posted on May 8, 2016

Under international humanitarian law, which includes the law of occupation and the protection afforded civilians who are
not engaged in war, denationalization is not only a war crime but is synonymous with the term genocide. Since the
occupation of the Hawaiian Kingdom began during the Spanish-American War, the United States embarked on a deliberate
campaign of forced denationalization in order to conceal the occupation and militarization of a neutral State. Denationalization,
in its totality, is genocide.

https://hawaiiankingdom.org/blog/under-international-law-native-hawaiians-are-victims-of-genocide/
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

bass monkey

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #762 on: September 05, 2019, 07:56:24 AM »
Traffic alert for everyone

Mauna truck cruise this weekend
I'm trying to figure out how to post the screenshot I took. 
It says the file is to large
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groveler

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #763 on: September 05, 2019, 11:55:46 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 04, 2019, 10:11:47 PM
Sure they're not playing the victim card.  Not at all.  Certainly there's no evidence of that.

Hawaiian Kingdom Blog
Weblog of the acting government of the Hawaiian Kingdom
presently operating within the occupied State of the Hawaiian Islands.

https://hawaiiankingdom.org/blog/under-international-law-native-hawaiians-are-victims-of-genocide/
The soultuion is easy, eject all Democrats from Hawaii.
Who ever is left over can figure out the situation.
Maybe set something up like Guam.
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Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #764 on: September 05, 2019, 12:04:47 PM »
Quote from: groveler on September 05, 2019, 11:55:46 AM
The soultuion is easy, eject all Democrats from Hawaii.
Who ever is left over can figure out the situation.
Maybe set something up like Guam.

The US Constitutionally legal solution is much more easier than that.

The US deoccupies Hawaii and the country returns to its internationally recognized neutral status in the Pacific.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #765 on: September 05, 2019, 12:19:46 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 05, 2019, 12:04:47 PM
The US Constitutionally legal solution is much more easier than that.

The US deoccupies Hawaii and the country returns to its internationally recognized neutral status in the Pacific.

China Bribes the nation of New Hawaii leaders and annexes Hawaii 5 years after "self rule" is reinstated.

Hawaii becomes another Hong Kong.

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #766 on: September 05, 2019, 01:02:27 PM »
Quote from: robtmc on September 04, 2019, 07:27:03 PM
Wrote elsewhere how the proteckstahs and the BS had echoes of the Vietnam war protests I saw when going to Santa Monica College.

It was quite clear is was a "kool kids" thing to "do", with thought no more deep that maybe it was an easy way to score chicks.
The "kool kids" aspect of a lot of activism that I see today is what gets to me.  Much like socialism seems to be en vogue today, which IMO is usually from those that have never meaningfully contributed to the system in the first place.  Or lots of activists who scream "I know my rights" but many times I don't really think they appreciate what they are protesting other than "fight the Power" or many times even live/act in a hypocritical manner to their activism. 

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drck1000

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #767 on: September 05, 2019, 01:04:15 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 04, 2019, 08:30:09 PM
There are a number of fake protestors on Mauna Kea.  Everyone already knows about the politicians/CEOs/entertainers as well as that segment of youth who are there out of curiosity or nothing better to do.  You also have those individuals who are there to sell t-shirts.  It is nice to see those kinds of protestors out on the mauna, but they are what they are.
Interesting choice of words that I didn't think I'd hear/see coming from you. 
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #768 on: September 05, 2019, 02:01:30 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 04, 2019, 08:30:09 PM
There are a number of fake protestors on Mauna Kea.  Everyone already knows about the politicians/CEOs/entertainers as well as that segment of youth who are there out of curiosity or nothing better to do.  You also have those individuals who are there to sell t-shirts.  It is nice to see those kinds of protestors out on the mauna, but they are what they are.

Care to estimate/speculate on what that number might be? 

Don't need a count.  A percentage or fraction would be adequate.  Anything that encapsulates the ratio of actual Hawaiians fighting for their spiritual/religious beliefs versus those who just want to protest anything that resembles their struggle against the oppressive and illegal US occupation.

Logged
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #769 on: September 05, 2019, 02:07:13 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on July 24, 2019, 08:47:17 PM

Mayor Kim is well aware of the legal status of Hawaii in relation to the USA.

Let's not open that can of worms and stay on topic with TMT.


 :stopjack:

Man, I hope your New Year's Resolutions fare better than the "stay on topic" thing did.   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #770 on: September 05, 2019, 03:07:35 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 05, 2019, 12:04:47 PM
The US Constitutionally legal solution is much more easier than that.

The US deoccupies Hawaii and the country returns to its internationally recognized neutral status in the Pacific.
Better off to going back to being a "Territory"
Guamanians have more gun rights than we do.
Plus we'd get rid of the obnoxious Democrats
in  the American Senate and congress.
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bass monkey

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #771 on: September 05, 2019, 03:40:05 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 05, 2019, 02:01:30 PM
Care to estimate/speculate on what that number might be? 

Don't need a count.  A percentage or fraction would be adequate.  Anything that encapsulates the ratio of actual Hawaiians fighting for their spiritual/religious beliefs versus those who just want to protest anything that resembles their struggle against the oppressive and illegal US occupation.


Just posting on interesting things I've seen on Facebook,  but there seems to be,  or perhaps always has been a divide among Christian Hawaiians who the Mauna kanaka don't want up there. 

Also saw other posts about someone wanting to teach about "drag queens" or a drag show or something along those lines at their mauna university and they got denied.

Just things I've seen online, I haven't been up there
I think its funny though,  you can only be a part of our protest if you do what we say
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RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #772 on: September 05, 2019, 07:01:18 PM »
I have an idea of how to settle the TMT dispute.  It would be what the state did with Bumpy Kanahele and his occupation of Makapuu Beach Park.  To get him and his followers out, the state gave them land in the back of Waimanalo where they could pretty much have their own little Hawaiian sanctuary.

The TMT is going to use 5 acres.  Give the TMT opposition the same amount of land.  They can chose where but it has to be out of sight from the highway.  There they can build their schools, altars and run their little sanctuary the way they see fit, as long as they are not breaking any laws that people on the outside obey.
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Happily living in Puna

macsak

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #773 on: September 05, 2019, 07:46:43 PM »
Quote from: bass monkey on September 05, 2019, 07:56:24 AM
Traffic alert for everyone

Mauna truck cruise this weekend
I'm trying to figure out how to post the screenshot I took. 
It says the file is to large

put a link
or type a general schedule
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oldfart

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #774 on: September 06, 2019, 09:54:06 AM »
That illegal wood building is going byby. Geez, it's about time.
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What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #775 on: September 06, 2019, 10:12:08 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on September 06, 2019, 09:54:06 AM
That illegal wood building is going byby. Geez, it's about time.

They should be fined for building without a permit and anything else the laws allow.

I'm thinking $4M should just about cover the fine.   :geekdanc:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #776 on: September 06, 2019, 10:15:12 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on September 06, 2019, 09:54:06 AM
That illegal wood building is going byby. Geez, it's about time.

they should've held a Hawaiian music rave/trance event with international DJs supporting like Tiesto, Armin Van Buuren, Above and Beyond...
protestors can take turns pushing the button

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Deeds Not Words

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #777 on: September 06, 2019, 10:48:23 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 06, 2019, 10:12:08 AM
They should be fined for building without a permit and anything else the laws allow.

I'm thinking $4M should just about cover the fine.   :geekdanc:
That would require enforcing the law. That ain't gonna happen here. These people have been victimized for 126 years already... can't pile on the poor helpless creatures.
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oldfart

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #778 on: September 06, 2019, 11:27:05 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 06, 2019, 10:12:08 AM
They should be fined for building without a permit and anything else the laws allow.

I'm thinking $4M should just about cover the fine.   :geekdanc:
===========
They should be fined?

But who exactly is "they".
Is there a legitimate person or organization responsible for the protesters?
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What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #779 on: September 06, 2019, 11:50:35 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on September 06, 2019, 11:27:05 AM
===========
They should be fined?

But who exactly is "they".
Is there a legitimate person or organization responsible for the protesters?

There must be witnesses to the building of the structure who can identify those directly responsible for its construction.

You know, like the Cops and other state personnel on site every single day which tax payers must pay to be there?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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