Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine (Read 911 times)

Bota-CS1

Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« on: October 13, 2019, 05:03:11 PM »

Noveske N9

History:

Noveske Rifleworks was founded in 2001 by John Noveske and is best known for their rifle barrels and AR-15 accessories such as the KX5 Firepig.  Noveske doesn’t get hung up on one particular thing, they seem to do what they feel like doing when they want to – forget what a traditional gun company business model says.  They have military inspired rifles like the Recce, Infidel, and Afghan to more humorous takes on pop culture with their Ghetto Blaster and Space Invader.  It’s as if they purposely refuse to be put in a corner and defined as any one genre of manufacturer.  John unfortunately passed away in a tragic car accident in 2013, but the company has managed to adapt to the loss of such a well-respected person in the industry and thrive.







And this is where I’m going to lose a lot of you….



OAL: 31 ¼”
Caliber: 9x19mm
Barrel: 16” Stainless Steel 12 RH Twist
Operating System: Direct Blowback


First Impressions

Like always thank yous are in order before we get started.  Security Equipment brought these rifles in recently, and I’ve been wanting one ever since they were announced during Shot this year.  Thanks to Jason and Stan for your help.

Before we go any further let’s address the elephant in the room – the price.  $2600 for anyone is steep, and you’ll have to decide if it’s worth the stretch, given its pedigree, and how it comes equipped.

Right away, it’s a 16” stainless steel barrel with a 12 RH twist.  Good quality barrel from a great barrel manufacturing company – check.  Magpul Pro sights included – check.  Magpul stock, 60 degree safety, and K grip – check.  Geissele Charging Handle – check.  Cerakoted billet 7075-T6 upper and lower (inside and out) – check.  Noveske 15” MLOK handguard – check.  Geissele MPX trigger – check.  Billet lower with ambi controls, flared magwell, and paddle release – check.  You have to really look at the entire picture to see what you’re getting.  There’s also an internal tension screw that removes any wobble between your upper and lower.

This is honestly the first rifle I’ve bought where I feel the need to change anything. I thought oh cool, I’m good with everything that’s already included, I just need an optic and a sling.  Would I have spent as much piecing out a build myself – probably not, but I also wouldn’t have ended up with Noveske parts and one of the more functional lowers.

Seeing as how it was a direct blow back, I thought, “Oh, this is will be kind of like the Thompson I shot in Vegas, but not as bad (recoil wise).”  Then I broke it open and was pleasantly surprised.  Inside was a VLTOR A5 recoil system.  Comparatively, the LWRC .45 which costs $3K uses a semi-roller delay action to soften recoil and allow for a folding stock.  For those of you who aren’t familiar, the VLOTR A5 basically takes a rifle length buffer and recoil spring and allows it to be used in shorter lower receiver extensions.  The advantage is reduced felt recoil and more consistent functioning of the bolt.  Why is this important in a pistol caliber carbine (PCC)?  Well most PCCs are direct blow back which means that recoil is going to be harsher than your typical AR – that’s been my limited experience with them.

I’m not sure what kind of unicorn-horn magic fairy dust Noveske did but this thing is a dream to shoot.  The action is smooth, and it ate everything I fed it at the range.  It feasted on everything from 147 down to 115, the majority of which was 125 grn.  The only malfunction was due to me accidentally riding the charging handle forward.  I don’t have a ton of time with the N9, only about 300 rounds so I’m going to keep updating this as I encounter things.  I’m interested to find out if there are any issues with the synthetic heads, or self-defense loadings.

Get good mags if you’re going to get a PCC. The N9 comes with a single Metalform mag, but I happened to pick up a few of the Brownells a little while ago.  If you cruise the other competitive shooting forums you’ll hear horror stories of mag related failures.  We’ll see as the round count climbs if my luck with feeding and extracting issues holds up.

Is this the PCC for you?  Is it really worth it?  It really depends on what you want to use it for.  Could you build something for USPSA for yourself for 3/4 the price, certainly.  Would I run this at a USPSA match, probably not.  I do have to say that this is the first rifle I’ve gotten that I haven’t had to change anything right out of the gate.  I think that says a lot about the team over at Noveske. 
Please consider donating to the Citadel of Ricks restoration fund.

ren

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2019, 06:10:00 PM »
I like it.
I like it a lot.

Never cared for PCCs but I noticed they have been popping up often on the pistol side.

macsak

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2019, 07:18:04 PM »
ok, I admit I never shot the noveske, but I was standing behind bota when he and his wife were shooting it
(don't tell him I said so, but mrs. bota was getting more hits)

it was shocking how little noise it was making, and I could tell there was very little recoil
I was looking at the barrel, and I asked, "it doesn't have a brake?"
apparently, it does not
I guess the blowback system removes a lot of the recoil and noise
it was very impressive


Noveske N9

History:

Noveske Rifleworks was founded in 2001 by John Noveske and is best known for their rifle barrels and AR-15 accessories such as the KX5 Firepig.  Noveske doesn’t get hung up on one particular thing, they seem to do what they feel like doing when they want to – forget what a traditional gun company business model says.  They have military inspired rifles like the Recce, Infidel, and Afghan to more humorous takes on pop culture with their Ghetto Blaster and Space Invader.  It’s as if they purposely refuse to be put in a corner and defined as any one genre of manufacturer.  John unfortunately passed away in a tragic car accident in 2013, but the company has managed to adapt to the loss of such a well-respected person in the industry and thrive.







And this is where I’m going to lose a lot of you….



OAL: 31 ¼”
Caliber: 9x19mm
Barrel: 16” Stainless Steel 12 RH Twist
Operating System: Direct Blowback


First Impressions

Like always thank yous are in order before we get started.  Security Equipment brought these rifles in recently, and I’ve been wanting one ever since they were announced during Shot this year.  Thanks to Jason and Stan for your help.

Before we go any further let’s address the elephant in the room – the price.  $2600 for anyone is steep, and you’ll have to decide if it’s worth the stretch, given its pedigree, and how it comes equipped.

Right away, it’s a 16” stainless steel barrel with a 12 RH twist.  Good quality barrel from a great barrel manufacturing company – check.  Magpul Pro sights included – check.  Magpul stock, 60 degree safety, and K grip – check.  Geissele Charging Handle – check.  Cerakoted billet 7075-T6 upper and lower (inside and out) – check.  Noveske 15” MLOK handguard – check.  Geissele MPX trigger – check.  Billet lower with ambi controls, flared magwell, and paddle release – check.  You have to really look at the entire picture to see what you’re getting.  There’s also an internal tension screw that removes any wobble between your upper and lower.

This is honestly the first rifle I’ve bought where I feel the need to change anything. I thought oh cool, I’m good with everything that’s already included, I just need an optic and a sling.  Would I have spent as much piecing out a build myself – probably not, but I also wouldn’t have ended up with Noveske parts and one of the more functional lowers.

Seeing as how it was a direct blow back, I thought, “Oh, this is will be kind of like the Thompson I shot in Vegas, but not as bad (recoil wise).”  Then I broke it open and was pleasantly surprised.  Inside was a VLTOR A5 recoil system.  Comparatively, the LWRC .45 which costs $3K uses a semi-roller delay action to soften recoil and allow for a folding stock.  For those of you who aren’t familiar, the VLOTR A5 basically takes a rifle length buffer and recoil spring and allows it to be used in shorter lower receiver extensions.  The advantage is reduced felt recoil and more consistent functioning of the bolt.  Why is this important in a pistol caliber carbine (PCC)?  Well most PCCs are direct blow back which means that recoil is going to be harsher than your typical AR – that’s been my limited experience with them.

I’m not sure what kind of unicorn-horn magic fairy dust Noveske did but this thing is a dream to shoot.  The action is smooth, and it ate everything I fed it at the range.  It feasted on everything from 147 down to 115, the majority of which was 125 grn.  The only malfunction was due to me accidentally riding the charging handle forward.  I don’t have a ton of time with the N9, only about 300 rounds so I’m going to keep updating this as I encounter things.  I’m interested to find out if there are any issues with the synthetic heads, or self-defense loadings.

Get good mags if you’re going to get a PCC. The N9 comes with a single Metalform mag, but I happened to pick up a few of the Brownells a little while ago.  If you cruise the other competitive shooting forums you’ll hear horror stories of mag related failures.  We’ll see as the round count climbs if my luck with feeding and extracting issues holds up.

Is this the PCC for you?  Is it really worth it?  It really depends on what you want to use it for.  Could you build something for USPSA for yourself for 3/4 the price, certainly.  Would I run this at a USPSA match, probably not.  I do have to say that this is the first rifle I’ve gotten that I haven’t had to change anything right out of the gate.  I think that says a lot about the team over at Noveske. 

Bota-CS1

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 07:54:35 PM »
AR based 9mm carbines are notoriously finicky when it comes to mags and ammo types, so I wanted to keep a running log of what I've gone through so far.  Below is a list a table of what I've run through the N9 so far.  As far as mag types tested, I've only tested the Brownells and Metalform.  I have ASC mags, but they're worthless.The overall dimensions of the ASC are ok, meaning they fit without any trouble in the N9, but they don't feed for sh*t and lock inconsistently in the lower.  Don't waste your time, unless you want to dedicate the time to file the mag catch and follower so they work.  I am looking to eventually get my hands on OG Colts, but we'll see how long I have to wait for those.  I'll try and do a better job of the table next post, but as you can see I've got some HPs up for testing this weekend along with some Blazer Brass.

9mm Compatibility Sheet            
            
Grain                                    Head      
Weight   Manufacturer         Type         Brownells           Metalform

115                 Fiocchi           Rounded          Yes                       Yes
124                  Speer                HP      
124                Gold Dot             HP      
125           American Eagle   Rounded          Yes                       Yes
135                 Hornady          Flex Tip      
147           American Eagle.   Flat Nose        Yes                        Yes
147               CCI Blazer        Flat Nose      


Yes = Feeds and works with no issues in the N9
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 08:16:32 PM by Bota-CS1 »
Please consider donating to the Citadel of Ricks restoration fund.

Heavies

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2019, 12:26:48 AM »
ok, I admit I never shot the noveske, but I was standing behind bota when he and his wife were shooting it
(don't tell him I said so, but mrs. bota was getting more hits)

it was shocking how little noise it was making, and I could tell there was very little recoil
I was looking at the barrel, and I asked, "it doesn't have a brake?"
apparently, it does not
I guess the blowback system removes a lot of the recoil and noise
it was very impressive


I believe the noise is mitigated by the 16" barrel.  Most of the powder is already burned up by the time the bullet leaves the barrel.   Recoil Is soaked up by the extra weight of the rifle, as well as how balanced the mass and spring setup is with any given ammo. 

I've been told PCCs can be finicky if it isn't set up right.  Too much mass and they can short stroke, lock back issues, feed issues, too little can be jarring for follow up shots.

Bud of mine has a mini uzi, with an 18 or 19" barrel.  (needs to be that long to meet minimum OAL for a rifle)  The report is super quiet.  Fun little gun to play with. 

Bota-CS1

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 07:15:13 AM »
I believe the noise is mitigated by the 16" barrel.  Most of the powder is already burned up by the time the bullet leaves the barrel.   Recoil Is soaked up by the extra weight of the rifle, as well as how balanced the mass and spring setup is with any given ammo. 

I've been told PCCs can be finicky if it isn't set up right.  Too much mass and they can short stroke, lock back issues, feed issues, too little can be jarring for follow up shots.

Bud of mine has a mini uzi, with an 18 or 19" barrel.  (needs to be that long to meet minimum OAL for a rifle)  The report is super quiet.  Fun little gun to play with.

You’re right Heavue more mass = less felt/perceived recoil.  As far as the feeding/reliability issues, those may be more related to mag and set up issues.  The mass of the bolt is really important in balancing the system.  Like you said, too heavy = short stroking:no lock back.  Too light  = feeding and ejection issues.
Please consider donating to the Citadel of Ricks restoration fund.

changemyoil66

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 10:55:56 AM »
AR based 9mm carbines are notoriously finicky when it comes to mags and ammo types, so I wanted to keep a running log of what I've gone through so far.  Below is a list a table of what I've run through the N9 so far.  As far as mag types tested, I've only tested the Brownells and Metalform.  I have ASC mags, but they're worthless.The overall dimensions of the ASC are ok, meaning they fit without any trouble in the N9, but they don't feed for sh*t and lock inconsistently in the lower.  Don't waste your time, unless you want to dedicate the time to file the mag catch and follower so they work.  I am looking to eventually get my hands on OG Colts, but we'll see how long I have to wait for those.  I'll try and do a better job of the table next post, but as you can see I've got some HPs up for testing this weekend along with some Blazer Brass.

9mm Compatibility Sheet            
            
Grain                                    Head      
Weight   Manufacturer         Type         Brownells           Metalform

115                 Fiocchi           Rounded          Yes                       Yes
124                  Speer                HP      
124                Gold Dot             HP      
125           American Eagle   Rounded          Yes                       Yes
135                 Hornady          Flex Tip      
147           American Eagle.   Flat Nose        Yes                        Yes
147               CCI Blazer        Flat Nose      


Yes = Feeds and works with no issues in the N9

Would this be applicable to all Noveske N9's?  Or just yours specific.  Like how each 22 can like diff ammo, even if same brand and model?

drck1000

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2019, 04:49:46 PM »
Awesome stuff Bota!   :thumbsup:

I've shot PCC quite a bit, mostly the Colt versions, and I noticed that the blow back throws all around.  Noticed it a little when shooting, but quite a bit when someone else is shooting and I'm on their right.  Do you notice any of that with the N9?  I would assume no, or at least much less. 

Another buddy's 9 mm PCC is also pretty finicky.  Needs factory spec 115 gr or 124 gr ammo.  His early testing ammo was reloads tuned for his Glock 34 and USPSA, so less than factory loading. 

ok, I admit I never shot the noveske, but I was standing behind bota when he and his wife were shooting it
(don't tell him I said so, but mrs. bota was getting more hits)

it was shocking how little noise it was making, and I could tell there was very little recoil
I was looking at the barrel, and I asked, "it doesn't have a brake?"
apparently, it does not
I guess the blowback system removes a lot of the recoil and noise
it was very impressive
#stalker #standbehindyoulikeJoeBiden

macsak

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2019, 05:19:29 PM »
#stalker #standbehindyoulikeJoeBiden

heads

Bota-CS1

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 09:14:13 PM »
Awesome stuff Bota!   :thumbsup:

I've shot PCC quite a bit, mostly the Colt versions, and I noticed that the blow back throws all around.  Noticed it a little when shooting, but quite a bit when someone else is shooting and I'm on their right.  Do you notice any of that with the N9?  I would assume no, or at least much less. 

Another buddy's 9 mm PCC is also pretty finicky.  Needs factory spec 115 gr or 124 gr ammo.  His early testing ammo was reloads tuned for his Glock 34 and USPSA, so less than factory loading. 
#stalker #standbehindyoulikeJoeBiden

From what I can tell it throws between 1 and 2 o’clock.  It’s pretty well forward. 
Please consider donating to the Citadel of Ricks restoration fund.

drck1000

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2019, 09:21:22 PM »
From what I can tell it throws between 1 and 2 o’clock.  It’s pretty well forward.
I meant does the blow back throw crap all around.  Like particles. I noticed the Colt 9 mm ARs that’s I’ve shot would have gasses and sometimes tiny particles/debris shooting out from the ejection port, in addition to the brass. Sort of like when you shoot revolvers and the gasses escape from the gap in front of the cylinder,  but also with particles.

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Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2019, 05:21:01 AM »
After I move to AZ my nephew wants to take me to his tactical shooting classes. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but I won’t know if I like it until I try it. Right now he is doing PCC training. I can’t use my 5.56 nor ,y 300 BLK. I currently don’t own a PCC so I might have to buy one if I decide I like the classes and want to continue them. This one just went on my list to look at. My 5.56 AR is a Noveske. The quality is superb.
Retirement Plans in the Works!!!

changemyoil66

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2019, 08:42:58 AM »
After I move to AZ my nephew wants to take me to his tactical shooting classes. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but I won’t know if I like it until I try it. Right now he is doing PCC training. I can’t use my 5.56 nor ,y 300 BLK. I currently don’t own a PCC so I might have to buy one if I decide I like the classes and want to continue them. This one just went on my list to look at. My 5.56 AR is a Noveske. The quality is superb.

First thing to do when landing is apply for tax stamp.  Heard the wait is 4 months now, compared to 1 year.

Selling any 10rd mags b4 you leave?  I know a guy who moved and took his 10rders with him.  His friends at the range made fun of him.  Didn't have the time to buy standard mags.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2019, 08:59:12 AM »
First thing to do when landing is apply for tax stamp.  Heard the wait is 4 months now, compared to 1 year.

Selling any 10rd mags b4 you leave?  I know a guy who moved and took his 10rders with him.  His friends at the range made fun of him.  Didn't have the time to buy standard mags.

If you travel with a firearm to states with mag restrictions, those 10-rounders will still have a use.
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

Bota-CS1

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2019, 07:02:58 PM »
I meant does the blow back throw crap all around.  Like particles. I noticed the Colt 9 mm ARs that’s I’ve shot would have gasses and sometimes tiny particles/debris shooting out from the ejection port, in addition to the brass. Sort of like when you shoot revolvers and the gasses escape from the gap in front of the cylinder,  but also with particles.

I hate my friends .357 hold out for that specific reason.  The side of your face gets “peppered” by burnt powder residue.  I’ve been behind the gun mostly so I haven’t been able to observe the ejection port tbh.  It does tend to crap on the first 1 1/2” of the mags though.  If I can watch it with the sun at the right angle I should be able to get a better idea.
Please consider donating to the Citadel of Ricks restoration fund.

Bota-CS1

Re: Noveske N9 - 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2019, 01:39:59 PM »
I got to push it really hard this past Saturday - 350 rounds in a little under and hour or so.  I can say the dirtier it is, the more you can feel  the  blast our of the ejection port.  It's not bad, but you do notice it when you're standing right next to the ejection port.  I did manage to push it to the point where I go the two failures to feed with HPs.  The first was the Gold Dot and the other with the Hornady, both didn't seem to get picked up by the bolt, and got caught on the edge of the feed ramp.  This was after 100 rounds of the Blazer and 100 of AE 147 grn.  50 of the Speer.

Both of the failures were the last round in the mag.  I got one failure in a Metalform mag, and one failure in a Brownells mag.

I suspect that if I kept running FMJs I wouldn't have run into this issue due to the different shape of the heads.
Please consider donating to the Citadel of Ricks restoration fund.