NRA Board Member and head of the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Tom King, speaking out against our ability to legally make firearms for our personal collections and use. I think the bare minimum when you are paid to be a gun rights leader is to not come out in favor of gun control.







https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/anna-m-kaplan/nys-legislation-would-ban-untraceable-ghost-guns?fbclid=IwAR2XOCvlKLu3fJ42hWiNCMikZFHbzOjbB2SS7QJgJHlk1SvxYIJIbDvrzvQ


The head of the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association said the sale of ghost guns is a growing problem.

“These '80 percent' guns are providing a way for prohibited people to buy a firearm,” Tom King of the NYSRPA said, referring to people who don’t have a gun permit or are otherwise prohibited from possessing a gun.

He said self-assembled guns provide a way for competition shooters to make a custom-fitted firearm. Such weapons should have serial numbers and be registered — and any new legislation should consider such a provision, he said. But it appears increasingly, King said, people trying to evade the law are the ones buying and selling self-assembled weapons.

“It appears what was meant to be something for competitive shooters and serious shooters to build their own unique firearm may be turning into a criminal enterprise,” King said.

Cancelled our NRA membership last year.  Joined other organizations instead.

NRA Board Member and head of the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Tom King, speaking out against our ability to legally make firearms for our personal collections and use. I think the bare minimum when you are paid to be a gun rights leader is to not come out in favor of gun control.







https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/anna-m-kaplan/nys-legislation-would-ban-untraceable-ghost-guns?fbclid=IwAR2XOCvlKLu3fJ42hWiNCMikZFHbzOjbB2SS7QJgJHlk1SvxYIJIbDvrzvQ


The head of the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association said the sale of ghost guns is a growing problem.

“These '80 percent' guns are providing a way for prohibited people to buy a firearm,” Tom King of the NYSRPA said, referring to people who don’t have a gun permit or are otherwise prohibited from possessing a gun.

He said self-assembled guns provide a way for competition shooters to make a custom-fitted firearm. Such weapons should have serial numbers and be registered — and any new legislation should consider such a provision, he said. But it appears increasingly, King said, people trying to evade the law are the ones buying and selling self-assembled weapons.

“It appears what was meant to be something for competitive shooters and serious shooters to build their own unique firearm may be turning into a criminal enterprise,” King said.

I didn't vote for Tom for the Board.
I generally don't vote for anybody living in a "Blue" state.
I also am a member of GOA.
I'd join Honolulu Rifle Assn. but it is expensive to fly
to shoots and ship my guns in from the mainland.
I strongly encourage everyone to build their own guns and never
register a gun however you get it.
I never violate any constitutional Federal, state, or local gun laws.
I will never report anybody that does.
"I know nothing, I see nothing".

WTF NRA  

Now those people are geniuses

"people trying to evade the law are the ones buying and selling self-assembled weapons"

They are breaking to law to break the law.  So we will make a law so they dont break that law. 

So simple... an elegant solution.   Amazing politicing.  Gives me shivers watching these geniuses work. 

I realize many here will disagree but he does have a point.

I realize many here will disagree but he does have a point.

What point?
Government should regulate blocks of aluminum?  That is nonsense. 


On another note, in the other topic I posted, a judge was about to rule AR receivers don't even fit the proper definition of a firearm as interpreted by the buerocract ATF... 


Just a another piece of aluminum....

What point?
Government should regulate blocks of aluminum?  That is nonsense. 


On another note, in the other topic I posted, a judge was about to rule AR receivers don't even fit the proper definition of a firearm as interpreted by the buerocract ATF... 


Just a another piece of aluminum....

I don't think they can completely ban 80% lowers.  If you think about it, a complete lower receiver would be included in any definition they come up with.  80% is included in 100%.  The worst I see them doing is requiring serialization and background checks before milling, just like they do for 100% milled parts. If they do that, then there's no reason to retain the "personal use" and "can't be transferred" restrictions.  They would be sold and controlled just like any other receiver, so restrictions would no longer be applicable.

I don't think they can completely ban 80% lowers.  If you think about it, a complete lower receiver would be included in any definition they come up with.  80% is included in 100%.  The worst I see them doing is requiring serialization and background checks before milling, just like they do for 100% milled parts. If they do that, then there's no reason to retain the "personal use" and "can't be transferred" restrictions.  They would be sold and controlled just like any other receiver, so restrictions would no longer be applicable.

How would they do that though?  Regulate every machine shop and private CNC machine? 

Instead of "80% lower" they can just call it "decorative aluminum coffee table ornament" 

It's a "problem" that doesn't have any solution,  and an excuse to chip further at people property rights. 

I don't think they can completely ban 80% lowers.  If you think about it, a complete lower receiver would be included in any definition they come up with.  80% is included in 100%.  The worst I see them doing is requiring serialization and background checks before milling, just like they do for 100% milled parts. If they do that, then there's no reason to retain the "personal use" and "can't be transferred" restrictions.  They would be sold and controlled just like any other receiver, so restrictions would no longer be applicable.

Watch HI either ban them or regulate them this years session.  I'll give you a guess who's name will be the one proposing it.  You know because 1 dude used a P80 in a crime.  So now all gun owners must pay.

How would they do that though?  Regulate every machine shop and private CNC machine? 

Instead of "80% lower" they can just call it "decorative aluminum coffee table ornament" 

It's a "problem" that doesn't have any solution,  and an excuse to chip further at people property rights.

I think the 80% rule is arbitrary and stupid myself. How is that limit even measured? Amount of time taken to get to that stage vs. remaining time needed to complete? Weight? FCG milled area vs. non-FCG area?  totally subjective and arbitrary as far as I can tell.

The ATF decided 80% or less complete does not constitute a receiver -- legally.  Saying it's a block of aluminum and nothing else at 80% is dishonest. It's 80% milled for a specific product/function.  It's a block of aluminum specifically milled to a point so the remaining milling can be completed and the end product used in a firearm.  No matter how you frame the definition, it is what it is.

You're allowing your definition to be dictated by the ATF rules. What if they changed the rule to 50%? Suddenly, those "blocks of aluminum" that are legal to buy today without a background check are instantly classified as firearms. Nothing changed except a few numbers in the regulations.  The same block of metal -- different definition.

This is yet another repeat of history.  In the UK, personally manufactured firearms are outright prohibited but someone who not only believed in the Right to defend oneself but also that it is impossible to prevent personally manufactured firearms distributed plans for a firearm built from iron pipe and fittings.  Unfortunately, the individual passed before final judgement so was branded a "terrorist" by the Govt.  The fact that the individual was arrested for distributing information should be a concern.

Looking a little further back, the Liberator pistol plans, ironically distributed by the Allies.  Think about that for a sec...  If one looks hard enough, information pertaining to personally manufactured firearms are very plentiful and a lot does not require specialized equipment and/or processes.

With that in mind, the question that comes to mind is why is this so?  If one looks at the 2nd and applies "shall not be infringed", the answer is pretty clear.  Add to that lessons from the past where gun control was in place, the importance of such knowledge is reinforced.

Looking at the past and compare it with the current attitude towards the 2nd, one would realize the popularity of the 80% is a direct result of said attitude.  This further reinforces the fact that the AR platform is the platform of choice, especially when there are other platforms that are similarly available and that a fully automatic firearm would be a much simpler build and with less tooling to boot.

Considering all of this, it is just idiotic that an organization that supports the 2nd would have a stance against personally manufactured firearms.  Any such individual within such an organization should not have any voice for the organization.

What point?
Government should regulate blocks of aluminum?  That is nonsense. 

That the 80% firearms make it easier for a prohibited person to obtain a firearm.

That the 80% firearms make it easier for a prohibited person to obtain a firearm.

How about a 79%

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That the 80% firearms make it easier for a prohibited person to obtain a firearm.

The Internet and all the YouTube videos that illustrate how to mill a receiver legally makes it easier for prohibited people to obtain firearms.

We need to get rid of the Internet.

Since a prohibited person could build a firearm from a piece of black pipe and a nail, all City Mills must now become regulated FFL dealers.  All purchases of metallic items or plumbing products must have a background check, and two week waiting period.

That the 80% firearms make it easier for a prohibited person to obtain a firearm.

How about 100% firearms? Wayman Kaua (Google that name if you want) didn't use a rifle and shotgun that started out as 80% receivers to commit the crimes he did AS AN ALREADY PROHIBITED PERSON.

ONE instance, the Ala Moana shooting incident in the parking lot across Lucky Strike was the only case in recent memory identified using a 80% receiver. How many other crimes by prohibited persons this year ALONE involved firearms that weren't built from 80% receivers?

The NRA Board member's "point" does NOT point out an epidemic.

The REAL point is prohibited persons STILL obtain firearms whether they are receivers or complete firearms OEM.

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ with Autism WTF point are YOU trying to make?

Since a prohibited person could build a firearm from a piece of black pipe and a nail, all City Mills must now become regulated FFL dealers.  All purchases of metallic items or plumbing products must have a background check, and two week waiting period.

Only black pipe (or is that waycist?) must have the BG check because its more likely to be an "assault pipe"

How about 100% firearms? Wayman Kaua (Google that name if you want) didn't use a rifle and shotgun that started out as 80% receivers to commit the crimes he did AS AN ALREADY PROHIBITED PERSON.

ONE instance, the Ala Moana shooting incident in the parking lot across Lucky Strike was the only case in recent memory identified using a 80% receiver. How many other crimes by prohibited persons this year ALONE involved firearms that weren't built from 80% receivers?

The NRA Board member's "point" does NOT point out an epidemic.

The REAL point is prohibited persons STILL obtain firearms whether they are receivers or complete firearms OEM.

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ with Autism WTF point are YOU trying to make?

His main point all along has been this:

Individual Rights and laws, based on due process and a presumption of innocence, give would-be criminals an advantage over the rest of law-abiding society.  Therefore, the more rights we water down and oppressive laws we pass, the safer we make society by making it harder (though not impossible) for criminals to do unlawful things.

He keeps omitting the part where those anemic rights and draconian laws prevent the law abiding from more easily exercising their rights, protecting themselves or others, avoiding expensive legal processes and property confiscations, and the futility many feel when trying to obtain a firearm legally over the plethora of factors that can either prohibit them or prohibit possession of those firearms after the fact.

They aren't going to take away our guns. They are just going to make it so difficult, invasive, expensive and legally risky to have a gun that we'll decide on our own that having guns is not worth the trouble.

Death by 1,000 cuts. 

How many ghost guns in the hands of prohibited owners and used in crimes have been recovered?   Depends on how large an area you examine.

California Progressive gun control paradise says 1/3 of the firearms they seized are Ghost guns.  Didn't say how many were ever used in crimes. Also didn't say how many PEOPLE were associated with the seizures. One anecdotal story in this article is about a CRIMINAL selling unserialized guns to undercover cops -- a lot of guns.  So, that kind of activity spikes the number of guns seized, but zero were in the hands of prohibited people (other than the seller) and zero were used to commit other-than-gun crimes (i.e. robbery, rape, murder).

As ghost guns proliferate across the state, lawmakers and police are scrambling to understand the scale of the problem,
let alone remedy it. In 2016, the California Legislature passed a law requiring residents to register homemade weapons
with law enforcement. A separate requirement outlawed the possession of unregistered ghost guns.

But records obtained by The Trace and NBC indicate that the law has had little effect. Compliance with the law is low, and
prosecutors have never brought charges under the new statute.

^^^ The very definition of an unenforceable/unenforced law.  Hence, the law's existence is illogical on its face.  Passing this law was an emotional attempt to "do something -- anything" rather than feel powerless by doing nothing.

Control over humans through legislation is a myth.  Without enforcement, there will be no compliance.  Even with enforcement, it's done AFTER the crime is committed.  The law prevents nothing.

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/05/ghost-gun-california-crime/

His main point all along has been this:

Individual Rights and laws, based on due process and a presumption of innocence, give would-be criminals an advantage over the rest of law-abiding society.  Therefore, the more rights we water down and oppressive laws we pass, the safer we make society by making it harder (though not impossible) for criminals to do unlawful things.

He keeps omitting the part where those anemic rights and draconian laws prevent the law abiding from more easily exercising their rights, protecting themselves or others, avoiding expensive legal processes and property confiscations, and the futility many feel when trying to obtain a firearm legally over the plethora of factors that can either prohibit them or prohibit possession of those firearms after the fact.

They aren't going to take away our guns. They are just going to make it so difficult, invasive, expensive and legally risky to have a gun that we'll decide on our own that having guns is not worth the trouble.

Death by 1,000 cuts. 

How many ghost guns in the hands of prohibited owners and used in crimes have been recovered?   Depends on how large an area you examine.

California Progressive gun control paradise says 1/3 of the firearms they seized are Ghost guns.  Didn't say how many were ever used in crimes. Also didn't say how many PEOPLE were associated with the seizures. One anecdotal story in this article is about a CRIMINAL selling unserialized guns to undercover cops -- a lot of guns.  So, that kind of activity spikes the number of guns seized, but zero were in the hands of prohibited people (other than the seller) and zero were used to commit other-than-gun crimes (i.e. robbery, rape, murder).

^^^ The very definition of an unenforceable/unenforced law.  Hence, the law's existence is illogical on its face.  Passing this law was an emotional attempt to "do something -- anything" rather than feel powerless by doing nothing.

Control over humans through legislation is a myth.  Without enforcement, there will be no compliance.  Even with enforcement, it's done AFTER the crime is committed.  The law prevents nothing.

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/05/ghost-gun-california-crime/

"They aren't going to take away our guns. They are just going to make it so difficult, invasive, expensive and legally risky to have a gun that we'll decide on our own that having guns is not worth the trouble."
Describes Hawaii.
It also describes only people that obey the law.