Trump Impeachment Proceedings (Read 107825 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #140 on: December 20, 2019, 11:02:53 AM »
Sounds like McConnell and Trump are calling Pelosi's bluff.

Trump said he wants a YUUUUGE list of witnesses called, and he wants the trial to start immediately.

So, the ball is in her court.  Reminds me of a student who didn't study for a final exam.  She's looking for any excuse to delay the inevitable.

She said the Dems want to call more witnesses, including those who took their Congressional subpoenas to court.  NOW Nancy is saying she might wait to see what the court rules before forwarding the articles of impeachment.

LOL!!  She rammed this thing through before Christmas with no desire to involve the courts.  If the witnesses are so important, (1) they would have waited for the courts before passing articles of impeachment, and (2) she's admitting her case against Trump is so weak they need more fact-finding to prop it up.

Sham process.  Thin evidence.  Partisan bullcrap waste of time and money.

All to cover up the real crimes by the Dems, and because they know they can't beat Trump at the ballot box.

Nancy and the House Dems just handed a majority win to the GOP.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #141 on: December 20, 2019, 11:04:39 AM »
She threw crap up on the wall and it stuck. For now. They ware maximizing the “crap time”.

changemyoil66

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #142 on: December 20, 2019, 11:34:45 AM »
Pelosi looking to swing votes b4 she submits. Her team needs time to find stuff for blackmail.

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drck1000

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #143 on: December 20, 2019, 11:50:12 AM »
Pelosi looking to swing votes b4 she submits. Her team needs time to find stuff for blackmail.

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #144 on: December 20, 2019, 01:48:09 PM »
Pelosi:  I'm not going to deliver the articles of impeachment to the Senate until I'm satisfied the trial process will be fair.

McConnell:  No problem.  We have better things to do.

Trump:  Thanks for proving what a sham the entire inquiry was.


So, Nancy thinks she gets to dictate to the Senate majority leader how to run their Constitutionally directed impeachment hearings?  LOL!  Maybe she didn't read far enough ahead to realize she would have to let the Senate try the case?  "We have to impeach President Trump before we decide what to do after the House votes on it."

I must have missed the part of the House hearings where Nancy let McConnell tell her what to do. 
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #145 on: December 20, 2019, 04:06:48 PM »
Pelosi:  I'm not going to deliver the articles of impeachment to the Senate until I'm satisfied the trial process will be fair.

McConnell:  No problem.  We have better things to do.

Trump:  Thanks for proving what a sham the entire inquiry was.


So, Nancy thinks she gets to dictate to the Senate majority leader how to run their Constitutionally directed impeachment hearings?  LOL!  Maybe she didn't read far enough ahead to realize she would have to let the Senate try the case?  "We have to impeach President Trump before we decide what to do after the House votes on it."

I must have missed the part of the House hearings where Nancy let McConnell tell her what to do.
I think McConnell said how can Pelosi hold the articles over his head when he doesn’t want them.  :rofl:

I was listening to the council for the president this morning. They agree with the Harvard Law Professor that was a main witness for the Dems for impeachment that said if Pelosi doesn’t deliver the articles of impeachment to the Senate, then the House process has not been completed and therefore Trump has technically not been impeached. But they also brought up another tact McConnell can take. And that is to go forward with the trial. Even if the articles never get delivered. He should invite Pelosi to deliver the articles and send over her managers and make the trial completely open to the House to participate in. Apparently, there is nothing that says the articles have to be delivered to the Senate in order for the senate to have the trial. The President wants his day in court so he is acquitted.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #146 on: December 20, 2019, 05:52:22 PM »
I think McConnell said how can Pelosi hold the articles over his head when he doesn’t want them.  :rofl:

I was listening to the council for the president this morning. They agree with the Harvard Law Professor that was a main witness for the Dems for impeachment that said if Pelosi doesn’t deliver the articles of impeachment to the Senate, then the House process has not been completed and therefore Trump has technically not been impeached. But they also brought up another tact McConnell can take. And that is to go forward with the trial. Even if the articles never get delivered. He should invite Pelosi to deliver the articles and send over her managers and make the trial completely open to the House to participate in. Apparently, there is nothing that says the articles have to be delivered to the Senate in order for the senate to have the trial. The President wants his day in court so he is acquitted.

Yeah, McConnell invoked Uncle Remus' Br'er Rabbit, referring to the "brier patch". 

"Oh no!  Don't hold onto those Articles of Impeachment, Ms. Pelosi!  That's the last thing we'd ever want you to do!"

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Based on my understanding of the Nixon situation, he was never officially impeached, because the House didn't deliver the articles they drafted to the Senate, either.  In fact, they stopped the process 2 weeks after Nixon announced his resignation which prevented the full House from voting on the articles.

This is like a prosecutor not filing charges after a grand jury votes to indict a suspect.  He's not indicted until the charges are filed with the court. 

In the Trump case, the Senate is the court, Pelosi is the prosecutor, and the House is the grand jury.

That's how I see it, anyway.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #147 on: December 20, 2019, 06:50:48 PM »
Yeah, McConnell invoked Uncle Remus' Br'er Rabbit, referring to the "brier patch". 

"Oh no!  Don't hold onto those Articles of Impeachment, Ms. Pelosi!  That's the last thing we'd ever want you to do!"

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Based on my understanding of the Nixon situation, he was never officially impeached, because the House didn't deliver the articles they drafted to the Senate, either.  In fact, they stopped the process 2 weeks after Nixon announced his resignation which prevented the full House from voting on the articles.

This is like a prosecutor not filing charges after a grand jury votes to indict a suspect.  He's not indicted until the charges are filed with the court. 

In the Trump case, the Senate is the court, Pelosi is the prosecutor, and the House is the grand jury.

That's how I see it, anyway.
What I find interesting is that the constitutional lawyers all seem to agree that Pelosi has not completed the House’s impeachment process by not transmitting the articles to the Senate. And that until she does, Trump is not impeached. Those who are merely just lawyers seem to think it doesn’t matter if she transmits the articles or not, he is impeached. It is so hard to get most of the constitutional lawyers to all agree. Especially considering the bias in DC seems to influence their interpretation of the constitution. An opinion piece on Fox News today theorized Pelosi is doing this on purpose just to make Trump mad. If true, she is doing a good job. Trump is a proud man. He feels this is a black mark on his presidency. Which is why he wants his day in court and get an acquittal. Then I heard on the radio on the way home that Pelosi extended an invitation to Trump to give the State of the Union Address in the House this year. Go figure. [/facepalm]
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #148 on: December 20, 2019, 07:51:45 PM »
What I find interesting is that the constitutional lawyers all seem to agree that Pelosi has not completed the House’s impeachment process by not transmitting the articles to the Senate. And that until she does, Trump is not impeached. Those who are merely just lawyers seem to think it doesn’t matter if she transmits the articles or not, he is impeached. It is so hard to get most of the constitutional lawyers to all agree. Especially considering the bias in DC seems to influence their interpretation of the constitution. An opinion piece on Fox News today theorized Pelosi is doing this on purpose just to make Trump mad. If true, she is doing a good job. Trump is a proud man. He feels this is a black mark on his presidency. Which is why he wants his day in court and get an acquittal. Then I heard on the radio on the way home that Pelosi extended an invitation to Trump to give the State of the Union Address in the House this year. Go figure. [/facepalm]

She did the invitation as a matter of tradition and protocol.  She invited him last year, then withdrew it when the Gov't was shutdown over budget squabbles.

In response, Trump canceled her flight to Afghanistan at the last minute after she'd already left for the air field!  LOL!

I don't think she purposely tried to make him mad.  I think she never wanted to impeach, but did it because Schiff promised he could nail Trump with the non-whistle blower complaint.  Had she waited to read the transcript -- just a day or so later -- I don't think this goat rodeo would have been allowed.

She made a strategic error by not anticipating Trump releasing the real transcript.  He's playing chess while the Dems are playing musical chairs.   :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #149 on: December 20, 2019, 10:09:37 PM »
I've been trying since last night to figure out Pelosi's strategy.  She's been in this DC swamp far too long to not have a plan for something as big as impeachment.

1.  The Senate has a Republican majority, which is enough votes to quash any impeachment with a simple motion to dismiss.  No need to worry about a 2/3 vote to convict/remove.

2.  The case against Trump is paper thin.  Not one Republican voted to impeach, as she must have known would happen.

3.  Several Dems voted against the articles of impeachment, and in Tulsi's case, one vote was withheld from the passing total.  Again, she had to have known this was going to happen.  That's the job of the Party Whip -- to ensure there are no surprises when a vote is called.

4.  If the case goes to the Senate, not only will Trump have a 99% chance of being acquitted, but any additional witnesses Trump's defense team calls could make the Dems look worse or even bring out the truth about Hunter Biden's association with both Ukraine and China, the 2 countries Obama appointed VP Biden to handle.  Coincidence?  I think not.

So, how does she impeach Trump but avoid the embarrassment of a sham impeachment and public airing of Biden's dirty laundry?

Answer:  Drag Trump's name through the mud, pass the articles of impeachment, but don't present them to the Senate.  She gives her Trump-hating supporters what they wanted, but avoids the humiliation of trying to defend it in a trial.  When asked why she didn't go trial, she can say, "The trial is rigged by the majority in the Senate.  Since I knew we couldn't win there, we decided to not give Trump the opportunity to unfairly beat the charges."

She believes she can have her cake and eat it, too.

I'm starting to wonder if she can't be accused of vetoing a House vote which might be an abuse of her power and obstruction of Congress.   :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #150 on: December 21, 2019, 08:30:54 PM »
Don’t if this is real or not, but...
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #151 on: December 21, 2019, 08:38:33 PM »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #152 on: December 22, 2019, 07:21:26 AM »
That letter is a fake.

But this one is real .....

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Letter-from-President-Trump-final.pdf


Yeah, pretty sure the one I posted was not real. I posted cuz it is funny! 😆
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #153 on: December 22, 2019, 10:20:10 PM »
Pelosi:  I'm not going to deliver the articles of impeachment to the Senate until I'm satisfied the trial process will be fair.

McConnell:  No problem.  We have better things to do.

Trump:  Thanks for proving what a sham the entire inquiry was.


So, Nancy thinks she gets to dictate to the Senate majority leader how to run their Constitutionally directed impeachment hearings?  LOL!  Maybe she didn't read far enough ahead to realize she would have to let the Senate try the case?  "We have to impeach President Trump before we decide what to do after the House votes on it."

I must have missed the part of the House hearings where Nancy let McConnell tell her what to do.

It could be political angling. By not sending it through to the senate then there is never a trial and Trump never gets to call his witnesses or make his arguments.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #154 on: December 22, 2019, 10:28:19 PM »
It could be political angling. By not sending it through to the senate then there is never a trial and Trump never gets to call his witnesses or make his arguments.

The Constitution is clear.

Impeachment is a process run by CONGRESS -- i.e. BOTH CHAMBERS.

It is not a "whim" the House can use to smear their political foes without at least the most basic of evidence and facts to see it through to a trial.

The HOUSE passed the articles of impeachment.  Now the speaker is abusing her power by overriding the legitimate (albeit partisan) vote of the House of Representatives.

The SENATE was created to ensure the HOUSE did not abuse its power.  The founders were afraid a Congress of only representatives could do anything they wished, even subvert the Constitution, unless there was a Senate designed to protect the nation and the Constitution.  That's why there are 2 Senators from each state.  They do not represent the "will of the people" as the House does.  They are a "stop gap measure" to oversee the bills and resolutions passed in the House.

I'm sure Nancy has political reasons for her actions, but at some point, she and her party will need to show their hands when McConnell calls their bluff.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #155 on: December 22, 2019, 10:41:16 PM »
The Constitution is clear.

Impeachment is a process run by CONGRESS -- i.e. BOTH CHAMBERS.

It is not a "whim" the House can use to smear their political foes without at least the most basic of evidence and facts to see it through to a trial.

The HOUSE passed the articles of impeachment.  Now the speaker is abusing her power by overriding the legitimate (albeit partisan) vote of the House of Representatives.

The SENATE was created to ensure the HOUSE did not abuse its power.  The founders were afraid a Congress of only representatives could do anything they wished, even subvert the Constitution, unless there was a Senate designed to protect the nation and the Constitution.  That's why there are 2 Senators from each state.  They do not represent the "will of the people" as the House does.  They are a "stop gap measure" to oversee the bills and resolutions passed in the House.

I'm sure Nancy has political reasons for her actions, but at some point, she and her party will need to show their hands when McConnell calls their bluff.

Impeachment votes have always been partisan. In the history of presidential impeachments no person of the same party of the president has ever voted for impeachment.

Mitch Moconnell has already said he won't be an impartial juror even though the oath he will have to take says he will be one so there is reason for Nancy to not trust the Senate to do their job properly. McConnell hardly has any high ground over Nancy if he is refusing to do his job correctly either.

Personally I don't agree with a decision to withhold transferring it to the house. I don't know if that play will work well for them but on principle I think she should send it to the senate.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #156 on: December 22, 2019, 10:45:44 PM »
It could be political angling. By not sending it through to the senate then there is never a trial and Trump never gets to call his witnesses or make his arguments.

Pelosi has already harpooned at least three of the Democrat impeachment lies:

1.  We need to get impeachment passed in the House as quickly as possible.  Trump is a national security threat and is trying to interfere in the 2020 election.  We can't wait for the courts to rule on Congressional subpoenas.  We'll just rule on that ourselves and call it "Contempt of Congress."

Now, Pelosi is slow walking impeachment after getting almost all the Dems to vote for it -- whether they wanted to or not.  January is the deadline for primary candidates to declare.  Nancy was threatening anyone who was in a Trump 2016 district with "being primaried" if they voted against impeachment.  Had this not gone to a vote before January, she would lose that "stick". 

I guess this matter wasn't so urgent after all.

2.  Trump is in contempt of Congress for not turning over subpoenaed documents and telling subpoenaed staffers to not testify.  Some did testify while others asked to courts to decide if Executive Privilege applies.  As I said, the speaker decided not to wait for the courts.

Now that the articles are in hand, Nancy wants to call at least two of the witnesses who asked the courts to decide if they have to appear.  All of a sudden, Nancy says we may have to wait for the courts.  Really?  If that testimony is so important, then why did she refuse to wait before the vote?  (see #1 above for a clue) 

3.  For over a month, we've heard that the evidence to impeach and remove President Trump is overwhelming, compelling and undisputed.  Forget the fact that their own witnesses disputed the evidence.  If the case is so overwhelming, why do they feel they need to call more witnesses in the trial at all?  They can't have it both ways.  Either they already reached the standard for impeachment and removal from office when they voted, or they voted for impeachment based on a weak set of facts.  It can't be both.

This whole thing is giving Kabuki Theater a bad name.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #157 on: December 22, 2019, 10:54:20 PM »
Impeachment votes have always been partisan. In the history of presidential impeachments no person of the same party of the president has ever voted for impeachment.

Mitch Moconnell has already said he won't be an impartial juror even though the oath he will have to take says he will be one so there is reason for Nancy to not trust the Senate to do their job properly. McConnell hardly has any high ground over Nancy if he is refusing to do his job correctly either.

Personally I don't agree with a decision to withhold transferring it to the house. I don't know if that play will work well for them but on principle I think she should send it to the senate.

Source?

Quote
The Republican controlled House of Representatives decided with a bipartisan vote of 258–176 (31 Democrats joined Republicans)
to commence impeachment proceedings against Clinton on October 8, 1998.

Quote
Although proceedings were delayed due to the bombing of Iraq, on the passage of H. Res. 611, Clinton was impeached by the
House of Representatives on December 19, 1998 on grounds of perjury to a grand jury (by a 228–206 vote; 223-5 R, 5-200 D,
0-1 independent
)[26] and obstruction of justice (by a 221–212 vote; 216-12 R, 5-199 D, 0-1 independent).[27] Two other
articles of impeachment failed—a second count of perjury in the Jones case (by a 205–229 vote)[28] and one accusing Clinton
of abuse of power (by a 148–285 vote).[29] Clinton thus became the second U.S. president to be impeached;[30][31] the first was
President Andrew Johnson, who was impeached in 1868. He is also the third president against whom articles of impeachment have
been brought before the full House (the second having been Richard Nixon in 1974).

The vote to open the Clinton inquiry was NOT partisan, and the fact the articles voted on by the House had members from both sides of the aisle voting against their parties' majority position also demonstrates the vote was NOT down party lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

Facts are hard.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #158 on: December 22, 2019, 11:46:36 PM »
1) Impeachment votes have always been partisan.

2 Personally I don't agree with a decision to withhold transferring it to the house. I don't know if that play will work well for them but on principle I think she should send it to the senate.
1) Negative ghost rider. Pattern is full.

That’s one of the biggest issues of this recent proceedings. Look up the history of previous (not precious) proceedings. The strictly partisan angle is huge...

2) Again, do you not see the angle that is being played there. Again consider the timing. She wants it to”stick” as fact for the time being. Are you that obtuse?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 01:53:18 PM by drck1000 »

macsak

Re: Trump Impeachment Proceedings
« Reply #159 on: December 23, 2019, 05:18:45 AM »

That’s one of the biggest issues of this recent proceedings. Look up the history of precious proceedings. The strictly partisan angle is huge...


insert Gollum meme