Shooting diamond head (Read 5683 times)

oldfart

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #100 on: January 31, 2020, 08:06:09 AM »
Shotgun with buckshot
....
Rumor or fact?
What, Me Worry?

aieahound

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #101 on: January 31, 2020, 05:15:21 PM »
Because a semi auto rifle probably wasn't used. Still no ballistic reports either or body cam

Shotgun with buckshot

Joe Biden’s advice ?
(Either you know or you don’t know what that is referring to  :D)
The more a person hates, the more the object of their hatred hates them back. - Itachi Uchiha

Mdotweber

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #102 on: January 31, 2020, 06:18:57 PM »
Joe Biden’s advice ?
(Either you know or you don’t know what that is referring to  :D)
I guess we'll never know if there was buckshot damage to the door...



Just speculation but since the police are usually issued vests with lvl IIIA  protection a rifle would have penetrated the vest. The officers who died succumbed to wounds in non protected areas. I'm just assuming but Hanel was either able to take very well placed shots at soft spots under stress, or he used something like a shotgun. There's no confirmation as to whose guns were found on the property but a friend of the landlord mentioned that she(landlord) had her late husbands "old guns" hidden under her bed.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 06:24:03 PM by Mdotweber »
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?

Mdotweber

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #103 on: January 31, 2020, 06:30:32 PM »
....
Rumor or fact?

Rumor, heard from someone that one of the initial witnesses described a shotgun. I have been watching the videos and reading articles about the tragic incident but cannot find the interview that was mentioned.
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?

changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #104 on: January 31, 2020, 07:29:07 PM »
I guess we'll never know if there was buckshot damage to the door...



Just speculation but since the police are usually issued vests with lvl IIIA  protection a rifle would have penetrated the vest. The officers who died succumbed to wounds in non protected areas. I'm just assuming but Hanel was either able to take very well placed shots at soft spots under stress, or he used something like a shotgun. There's no confirmation as to whose guns were found on the property but a friend of the landlord mentioned that she(landlord) had her late husbands "old guns" hidden under her bed.
The coronor can tell what caliber made the wounds. But no info released. So prob wasnt a 223 or 7.62.

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macsak

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #105 on: January 31, 2020, 08:27:24 PM »
The coronor can tell what caliber made the wounds. But no info released. So prob wasnt a 223 or 7.62.

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please give a source where the coronor is able to determine what caliber...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #106 on: January 31, 2020, 09:56:04 PM »
please give a source where the coronor is able to determine what caliber...

Quote
Forensic pathologists commonly describe bullets as small (.22, .25), medium (.32, .38, 9 mm), or large (.40, .45, .50) caliber,
based on a measurement of the bullet's diameter. A simple ruler or caliper is a good way to make this determination with a
bullet recovered at autopsy.

https://www.archivesofpathology.org/doi/full/10.1043/1543-2165%282006%29130%5B1283%3APPOGW%5D2.0.CO%3B2
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

macsak

changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2020, 10:23:17 PM »
please give a source where the coronor is able to determine what caliber...
Im assuming there is a national data base that shows entry and exit wounds of various calibers. A 9mm looks diff from a 338 lapua.

Also any heads recovered in the line of fire should have been found by now.

Or am i watching too much CSI and no such data base/ testing exist.

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macsak

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2020, 10:43:18 PM »
Im assuming there is a national data base that shows entry and exit wounds of various calibers. A 9mm looks diff from a 338 lapua.

Also any heads recovered in the line of fire should have been found by now.

Or am i watching too much CSI and no such data base/ testing exist.

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"assuming" is different from "intel"

ren

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2020, 11:00:22 PM »
Im assuming there is a national data base that shows entry and exit wounds of various calibers. A 9mm looks diff from a 338 lapua.

Also any heads recovered in the line of fire should have been found by now.

Or am i watching too much CSI and no such data base/ testing exist.

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you mean bullets or projectiles right?

changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2020, 11:36:38 PM »
"assuming" is different from "intel"
Assumptions is the mother of all fuck ups.

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #112 on: February 01, 2020, 12:11:45 AM »
If you read the linked article I posted, it goes through the entire "system", including identifying the caliber.

Quote
When a person dies from a gunshot wound, the investigation of the death falls to the local medicolegal death investigation system.
In a large urban setting this is usually a medical examiner's office, headed by a chief medical examiner and staffed by forensic
pathologists who have completed specialized postresidency fellowship training. In other jurisdictions, the responsibility belongs
to the elected coroner and his or her designated forensic pathologist. Distinguishing among accidental, suicidal, and homicidal
gunshot wounds; estimating range of firing; and distinguishing exit wounds from entrance wounds are critical skills and just a few
of the reasons why a forensic pathologist must be an expert in interpreting gunshot injuries. An error in any of these determinations
can have far-reaching consequences for the family of the deceased, the accused, the legal system, and the forensic pathologist.

This article seeks to lay basic groundwork for understanding the pathology of gunshot wounds.

Quote
A forensic pathologist does not have to be a weapons expert to interpret gunshot pathology correctly, but, because bullets fired
from handguns and rifles produce gunshot wounds, a forensic pathologist should at least be familiar with the nomenclature and
operation of commonly used guns and ammunition. The examination and interpretation of firearms and bullets is termed ballistics
or firearms examination. It is a separate field of expertise from forensic pathology requiring specialized training and instruments
of its own.2 The basic functional unit of a modern round of ammunition is the cartridge.

Quote
Even if a bullet has fragmented, a ballistics expert may be able to determine the caliber of the bullet from the aggregate weight of
the fragments. It is also extremely important to recover any jacket fragments whenever possible because in jacketed ammunition,
the rifling marks appear only on the jacket. Unless the jacket is recovered, the bullet cannot be matched to a particular gun. The
forensic pathologist must always remember that the chain of custody for any bullets begins in the autopsy suite. If potential evidence
is mishandled in the autopsy suite, whether by the pathologist performing the autopsy, technicians assisting, or the investigators
assigned to case, it diminishes the likelihood of that material being admitted into evidence at trial. Recovered bullets and fragments
should be photographed next to a scale identifying the anatomic location from which the bullet or fragment was recovered. Each
bullet and/or fragment should be then be sealed in a separate evidence envelope with the subject's name, the date of recovery, and
the name of the pathologist who recovered it written by the pathologist in his or her own handwriting on the envelope.

Even though the medical examiner is likely not the same person as the ballistics expert, the evidence is collected and provided to whomever is doing that part of the analysis.

Just like a medical examiner submits blood and tissue samples to a lab for testing, so will he submit jackets, bullets and fragments for testing.

Quibbling over whether the doctor himself runs every test personally is pointless.

But, a real doctor would already know this.   :popcorn:
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

Platinum808

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #113 on: February 01, 2020, 08:03:06 AM »
I think its a 22lr for someone to get two head shots that has never shot or been seen using a gun in there life! And that is a common rifle!
Oh ignorant youth, the world is not a joyous place. The time has come for you to dispense with the frivolous pleasures of childhood and get down to honest toil until you are sixty-five. Then and only then can you relax and collect your social security and live happily until the time of your death!

-Hunter S. Thompson

macsak

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #114 on: February 01, 2020, 08:26:20 AM »
If you read the linked article I posted, it goes through the entire "system", including identifying the caliber.

Even though the medical examiner is likely not the same person as the ballistics expert, the evidence is collected and provided to whomever is doing that part of the analysis.

Just like a medical examiner submits blood and tissue samples to a lab for testing, so will he submit jackets, bullets and fragments for testing.

Quibbling over whether the doctor himself runs every test personally is pointless.

But, a real doctor would already know this.   :popcorn:

please show me where I said that

2ahavvaii

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #115 on: February 01, 2020, 01:46:18 PM »
Rumor, heard from someone that one of the initial witnesses described a shotgun. I have been watching the videos and reading articles about the tragic incident but cannot find the interview that was mentioned.

Guessing people in the vicinity don't hit the range.  Otherwise they could tell the difference between small caliber and big bore rifle, shotgun, handgun, at the least.  They did say that the officer went flying back, so maybe it was a shotgun.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2020, 03:39:32 PM »
please show me where I said that


Show me where I said you said that.

Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #117 on: February 01, 2020, 09:29:03 PM »
I think its a 22lr for someone to get two head shots that has never shot or been seen using a gun in there life! And that is a common rifle!

Why would that matter? Someones first shot with a 22lr isn't going to be different from a 12 gauge

Rocky

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2020, 08:17:42 AM »
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt