Measuring wrong isnt illegal, but it will cost the innocent gun owner time, money, and their job.

So there is a right way and a wrong way. The cop is doing it the wrong way.

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You are right but all I am trying to illustrate is that there is no universal "right way".

Tomatoes are fruits by a botanical definition but by law they are vegetables (it has to do with how they are taxed IIRC). So who is right?

I fully agree that the police should adhere to accepted gunsmithing standards on how to measure a barrel, only saying they are not violating any legal definition by doing it differently. And if there is any doubt they should side on behalf of the person bring in the gun, who cares about an 1/8th inch, but that's just my philosophy.

You are right but all I am trying to illustrate is that there is no universal "right way".

Tomatoes are fruits by a botanical definition but by law they are vegetables (it has to do with how they are taxed IIRC). So who is right?

I fully agree that the police should adhere to accepted gunsmithing standards on how to measure a barrel, only saying they are not violating any legal definition by doing it differently. And if there is any doubt they should side on behalf of the person bring in the gun, who cares about an 1/8th inch, but that's just my philosophy.

There is a right way and the ATF (which is the governing agency on firearms) has defined it here in an official publication https://www.atf.gov/file/58196/download
The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

There is a right way and the ATF (which is the governing agency on firearms) has defined it here in an official publication https://www.atf.gov/file/58196/download
The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

According to EEF, if 99% of people follow an official, federal method for doing something, and 1% decide to make up their own procedure, then there is no "universal method."

The truth is, there IS a universal method  even if you decide to ignore 99% of everyone else adopting consistent and well-documented federal guidance.

Universal doesn't require 100% of people agreeing and using the same method.  Universal means it applies in all cases without exception.  Therefore, the method the ATF provides is universal.  The method the HPD uses is not universal, since that method will fail to give accurate measurements depending on firearm design.

Using EEF's own terms, there IS a universal method.  And HPD isn't bothering to follow it.

Mind you all that you guys are arguing with a person who knew nothing about 3D printers but opined inaccurately about it.

Mind you all that you guys are arguing with a person who knew nothing about 3D printers but opined inaccurately about it.

Right, but it would be negligent to allow such inaccurate and dishonest comments in support of wrongful actions by our LAW ENFORCEMENT agency to go unchallenged.  HPD is arbitrarily making up their procedures in spite of the existence of proper procedures published by a federal agency.  Arguing that they have that latitude and discretion plays into the hands of the government who banks on the public being too ignorant to recognize when they are being penalized for doing nothing wrong.

Mind you all that you guys are arguing with a person who knew nothing about 3D printers but opined inaccurately about it.

If nothing else it is helping us figure out how they are brainwashing the beat cops so that we can come up with suitable deprogramming techniques for the ones who are getting fed up with their corrupt leadership.

You are right but all I am trying to illustrate is that there is no universal "right way".

Tomatoes are fruits by a botanical definition but by law they are vegetables (it has to do with how they are taxed IIRC). So who is right?

I fully agree that the police should adhere to accepted gunsmithing standards on how to measure a barrel, only saying they are not violating any legal definition by doing it differently. And if there is any doubt they should side on behalf of the person bring in the gun, who cares about an 1/8th inch, but that's just my philosophy.

There is no universal right way, but there is a wrong way.  And measuring the outside of the barrel is the wrong way.

If nothing else it is helping us figure out how they are brainwashing the beat cops so that we can come up with suitable deprogramming techniques for the ones who are getting fed up with their corrupt leadership.

I would say more like brain washing recruits so they blindly follow orders.  Like red flag orders.  I know guys who didn't get into HPD and they seem like they're free thinkers.  I know other guys who got in and are more of a follower.

If nothing else it is helping us figure out how they are brainwashing the beat cops so that we can come up with suitable deprogramming techniques for the ones who are getting fed up with their corrupt leadership.

I suspect you are granting a higher level of intelligence to the average cop to allow them to follow the reasoning required for that.

Any law that is unconstitutional must be met with opposition by we the people and especially by our congress!

Any law that is unconstitutional must be met with opposition by we the people and especially by our congress!

Our Congress, both local and Federal doesn't give a rats ass about us.

Da mo laws dey pas, da less I stay incline fo follow.  Too confusing fo rememba wat legal now not legal tomorrow. 

Da mo laws dey pas, da less I stay incline fo follow.  Too confusing fo rememba wat legal now not legal tomorrow.

....
Especially if you are in the older demographic.

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Especially if you are in the older demographic.

If I'm in the "older" demo, what does that say about Bernie and Biden?   

Is there a "ready to expire" demo?

Mind you all that you guys are arguing with a person who knew nothing about 3D printers but opined inaccurately about it.

I used some innacurate technical terms, my error was pointed out, and I admitted my mistake. Mind you that my mistaken understanding was not directly related to me point. Good job being honest there ren.

There is a right way and the ATF (which is the governing agency on firearms) has defined it here in an official publication https://www.atf.gov/file/58196/download

Yes but that is federal law. Federal law doesn't dictate state law. If HPD were applying a federal law then they would have to follow the ATF definition but they aren't so they don't. Should they follow industry standard? Absolutely. Is there some law that says they have to? Nope! You are mistakenly assuming that industry standard somehow creates a local legal guideline. Again, note my point about tomatoes being fruit but the federal government considers it a vegetable. Industry expert standard does not dictate law. I am talking actual law here, not ideal, even though I agree with your ideal fully.

Yes but that is federal law. Federal law doesn't dictate state law. If HPD were applying a federal law then they would have to follow the ATF definition but they aren't so they don't. Should they follow industry standard? Absolutely. Is there some law that says they have to? Nope! You are mistakenly assuming that industry standard somehow creates a local legal guideline. Again, note my point about tomatoes being fruit but the federal government considers it a vegetable. Industry expert standard does not dictate law. I am talking actual law here, not ideal, even though I agree with your ideal fully.

So in other words HPD will take every opportunity to screw gun owners by making up its own arcane laws that are clearly meant to trap us. Are you trying to convince more people to not register their weapons?

So in other words HPD will take every opportunity to screw gun owners by making up its own arcane laws that are clearly meant to trap us. Are you trying to convince more people to not register their weapons?

No idea, I was only pointing out they aren't required to follow ATF definitions in applying a state law. In no way was I saying it was a good idea they make up their own standards and measure the barrel different from industry standard.

Personally I would think that officers measured the gun that way because they were just never trained about the industry standard way, I don't always assume the worst of people.

No idea, I was only pointing out they aren't required to follow ATF definitions in applying a state law. In no way was I saying it was a good idea they make up their own standards and measure the barrel different from industry standard.

Personally I would think that officers measured the gun that way because they were just never trained about the industry standard way, I don't always assume the worst of people.

Well if HPD making up their own rules is the case then by default they have to prove we are guilty of some offense. Wait no written rule? Then how can they enforce anything? Rule number 1 of law enforcement is must have written law. That is unless they are corrupt. But then I repeat myself

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so what is the definition of a magazine?