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Obama. Above the Law (Read 26414 times)

Heavies

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 04:02:42 AM »
signed U K L Lee? 

c'mon now!

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SpeedTek

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Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 06:43:42 AM »
hmmmm


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Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2012, 12:07:32 PM »
"I need to read what Obama is saying he wants to do in more detail, however keep this in mind...............once registered these guys are now on the radar to pay taxes & lessen the burden on our healthcare and government services.  Less drain on law enforcement personnel as well.  It may not be ideal, but it may be realistic to look at rather than trying to catch and deport tens of thousands of persons who will re-enter illegally anyway."

Actually, the main problem I see here is that these folks are coming into the country without previous background into what our country is (or was) all about --freedom and independence, including the freedom to fail.  Thus, they will forever vote with their bellies instead of with a concern as to what's "good for the country."  (That's in quotes, and what I mean is without any reflection at all on the impact on the country as a whole.)

Moreover, they come into this country with (usually) the basic understanding that possession of firearms should be limited to the police and military, and that the State is the ultimate authority on how to run their own lives.

Just my opinion.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 12:12:47 PM by 230RN »
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I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Dblnaknak

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2012, 07:54:02 PM »
This topic is dumb. Unless you are Indian we are all immigrants.
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DuckFat

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2012, 10:49:45 PM »
Quote from: Dblnaknak on June 19, 2012, 07:54:02 PM
This topic is dumb. Unless you are Indian we are all immigrants.
Being an immigrant is not the topic. This is about Obama disregarding the law.

You sir, seem to be very misinformed.
1) An immigrant is someone who moves to another country. The descendants of immigrants are not immigrants themselves.
2) I'm assuming by "Indian" you mean Native American because Indians are from India and there are a lot of Indian immigrants.
3) There is a possibility for Native American immigrants. All you need is someone of Native American descent born outside of this country to move here. Like one of the people in http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6621319.stm
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What if rhinos are just fat unicorns?

clshade

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2012, 11:45:35 PM »
Quote from: DuckFat on June 19, 2012, 10:49:45 PM
1) An immigrant is someone who moves to another country. The descendants of immigrants are not immigrants themselves.

This is the thought behind Obama's proposal. Given that it is impossible to enforce the immigration laws as they are, its not entirely unreasonable.
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Heavies

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 03:44:30 AM »
oh my ....
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Kevin

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2012, 08:22:19 AM »
View link

Check out this video on YouTube:



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Jl808

Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2012, 08:39:04 AM »
Wow... Maybe he slept through civics class. Or maybe civics means a car to him. :hide:
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Kevin

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2012, 09:01:25 AM »
Quote from: Jl808 on June 20, 2012, 08:39:04 AM
Wow... Maybe he slept through civics class. Or maybe civics means a car to him. :hide:

LoL, but he wasn't sleeping through civics class silly... he was at Waikiki Beach with the Choom Gang smoking some buds, he was with the local kids who were always looking for a brawl... remember, most of his high school days were just a blur cause he was always stoned.. don't believe me.. he says it himself here:



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clshade

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2012, 09:38:10 AM »
Oh... I get it now.

You believe the bullshit that was fed to you in civics class - that laws are absolute.

In that case there is no problem with abortion, right? Law says its OK, right? People going over the speed limit, even by 1mph, deserve to be ticketed, right? Smoking pot is illegal and wrong and that's why ~everyone~ who uses pot is punished, right?

Funny how the "but its the LAW!" outrage generally only comes up when a law that ~you~ like isn't being enforced they way you want it to. Many laws are only absolute for those too timid to find the gray area at their edges.

Far - and I mean FAR - more laws are passed than can be, or are meant to be, fully enforced. Politicians, police, enforcement agencies, businesses and private citizens the world over play in the gray area between what is legal and what is enforced. They do so according you their local, personal and political goals. Why this is surprising and shocking to you is beyond me. This is politics and business as usual.

But, as I first stated when I waded into this topic, I agree that the law ~should~ be followed. If the law is unenforceable or if enforcing it would have undesirable consequences then it should be changed - then enforced. In the absence of that clarity it gives rise to silly situations like this where both sides use the gray area for divisive political gain without having to actually address the issue and resolve it.

But in the case of illegal immigration there is no resolving it - not if your idea of resolving it is stopping it. The issue has never been stopped humanely in the history of civilization when you have a very rich country next to a very poor country. Ever. Anywhere. Not once. Do you understand what I'm saying? NEVER. In all of history. Ever. Its not as simple as passing a law and enforcing it - your beliefs on the issue not withstanding.

So either you get used to and find ways of dealing with a growing illegal immigrant population or you get used to the idea of an increasingly militant police state. Take your pick. So far I agree with erring on the side of freedom.

They didn't mention this kind a stuff in Civics class.
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Kevin

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2012, 10:00:58 AM »
Quote from: clshade on June 20, 2012, 09:38:10 AM
Oh... I get it now.

You believe the bullshit that was fed to you in civics class - that laws are absolute.

In that case there is no problem with abortion, right? Law says its OK, right? People going over the speed limit, even by 1mph, deserve to be ticketed, right? Smoking pot is illegal and wrong and that's why ~everyone~ who uses pot is punished, right?

Funny how the "but its the LAW!" outrage generally only comes up when a law that ~you~ like isn't being enforced they way you want it to. Many laws are only absolute for those too timid to find the gray area at their edges.

Far - and I mean FAR - more laws are passed than can be, or are meant to be, fully enforced. Politicians, police, enforcement agencies, businesses and private citizens the world over play in the gray area between what is legal and what is enforced. They do so according you their local, personal and political goals. Why this is surprising and shocking to you is beyond me. This is politics and business as usual.

But, as I first stated when I waded into this topic, I agree that the law ~should~ be followed. If the law is unenforceable or if enforcing it would have undesirable consequences then it should be changed - then enforced. In the absence of that clarity it gives rise to silly situations like this where both sides use the gray area for divisive political gain without having to actually address the issue and resolve it.

But in the case of illegal immigration there is no resolving it - not if your idea of resolving it is stopping it. The issue has never been stopped humanely in the history of civilization when you have a very rich country next to a very poor country. Ever. Anywhere. Not once. Do you understand what I'm saying? NEVER. In all of history. Ever. Its not as simple as passing a law and enforcing it - your beliefs on the issue not withstanding.

So either you get used to and find ways of dealing with a growing illegal immigrant population or you get used to the idea of an increasingly militant police state. Take your pick. So far I agree with erring on the side of freedom.

They didn't mention this kind a stuff in Civics class.


What are you talking about, nobody is surprised that politicians lie, just pointing out how blatant the current president is lying to the American people without batting an eye and how most of the mainstream media sweeps it under the rug as if its no big deal.  He doesn't have my vote that's for sure.  During his campaign many of the promises that he made sounded pretty good but unfortunately they were all lies.  Personally, i am a Ron Paul guy, not saying that he is going to win and change the country but his message makes the most sense and guess what... he seems to vote consistently on issues.. no one is perfect and the system surely isn't... the post was just to poke fun at the President and show how many everyday American's have no idea what this man really stands for... Relax
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Jl808

Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2012, 10:07:52 AM »
I agree that something being law does not make it ethically right.  I also do not think breaking the law (even if one disagrees with it) is a good thing.

For my previous post, I was referring to the separation of power among the 3 branches of government.  As people are not perfect and power corrupts, no one entity should be given absolute power to be executor, judge and lawmaker.  The design of the US government is to have checks and balance among those 3 powers. I think that congressman in the video is rehashing this pointing out where Obama has been bypassing both legislative and judicial bodies and doing whatever he wants.

You're probably right though... This behavior is not exclusive to this president only.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 10:12:59 AM by Jl808 »
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I think, therefore I am armed.
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clshade

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2012, 10:23:56 AM »
<-- Ron Paul supporter here, too.

Not that I have any illusions that he'd have been able to make much difference. More a vote for an ideology and it would have been really interesting to see what, if anything, he could have accomplished in office and how. The only candidate with the country and the people's best interests at heart, too, regardless of how hard it would be to manifest anything for the best interest of the country or the people in DC.

As a Paul supporter you are probably not surprised that I agree the President (any president pretty much since WWII, not just this one) is wielding too much power. Executive orders, as they are used these days, are just evil. Its a trend I'd like to see reversed and ended.

(sigh) Figure the odds.
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Old Guy

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2012, 10:32:17 AM »
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clshade

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2012, 11:09:12 AM »
"Official unemployment for American citizens remains above 8 percent. Now, 800,000 noncitizens can work legally, in some cases for lower wages, thus robbing some citizens of what should be their priority place in the job line."

Bullshit. Well, technically "correct" if you completely ignore reality and history.

Americans have not had "priority place" for (sub-)minimum wage labor jobs for decades. And those 800,000 noncitizens aren't going to go anywhere near a legal job until laws are passed that assure they can stay in the country. Nor do their current employers want to pay them legal wages. Nor could Americans live at an American standard of living on the wages currently paid to Mexicans - who do a better job for less money precisely because they are afraid of getting shipped back to Mexico.

Do you not understand how important low wage labor is to the rest of the US economy? The real white elephant here, and the reason so little actually gets done about illegal immigration, is that it is ~illegally~ low wage labor that is so important for the rest of the economy. I don't think this is morally correct and it certainly isn't legal but its fact. And as long as there is a huge disparity in the standard of living between the US and Mexico this will always be the case.

If every ag and labor worker in the US was paid a legal American wage cost of living would go through the roof even more than it is already. No one wants that.

Obama's actions, legal or not, are completely irrelevant and pure political pandering. As are the objections to it. Its also business as usual - Bush did almost exactly the same kind of thing. None of it has anything to do with the actual issue (the enormous wealth inequality between the 2 nations) nor will it have any affect on the issue.

But... it does make a convenient dartboard to hang Obamas picture on, I suppose.
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Ace5.56

Delete
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2012, 08:24:13 PM »
 :closed:
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 10:20:57 AM by Ace5.56 »
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Kevin

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2012, 08:26:53 PM »
Quote from: clshade on June 20, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
<-- Ron Paul supporter here, too.

As a Paul supporter you are probably not surprised that I agree the President (any president pretty much since WWII, not just this one) is wielding too much power. Executive orders, as they are used these days, are just evil. Its a trend I'd like to see reversed and ended.




 :shaka:
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SpeedTek

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Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2012, 09:40:31 PM »
ANYONE BUT OBAMA Supporter!
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Political Correctness is FOS
I collect M1 Carbines, PM me if youre selling!
& Bolt Action 308s also 10/22 Rugers.
Buying STOCK Ruger 10/22 parts and bits, PM me.
Now doing Vintage VW Parts!

Kevin

Re: Obama. Above the Law
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2012, 09:48:55 PM »
Quote from: SpeedTek on June 20, 2012, 09:40:31 PM
ANYONE BUT OBAMA Supporter!

I would feel that way too but Mr. Willard 'Mittens' Romney may push for gun control as he did when he was Governor. Like some people say, 4 more years of King Obama or 8 years of possibly King Romney.  If they are only choices then what does it matter but I wouldn't vote for either of the two.  Just my 2 cents
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