I have one box of 20 3M N95 masks that I bought in 2018.  My wife and I used masks for the first time yesterday to go shopping.  I see a lot of people do not know how to properly put on the mask.  The box has instructions and I had once attended a PPE class for construction which included how to properly put on a mask.

I am not donating what I have.  I don't have enough to donate.

I have one box of 20 3M N95 masks that I bought in 2018.  My wife and I used masks for the first time yesterday to go shopping. I see a lot of people do not know how to properly put on the mask.  The box has instructions and I had once attended a PPE class for construction which included how to properly put on a mask.

I am not donating what I have.  I don't have enough to donate.

Yup.  See lots taking it off to talk to folks.  You just removed one of the main big picture potential benefit of widespread mask use which is to limit how much the person talking from spewing.  Then people still touching their face or scratching their nose under the mask.  Then there's people using gloves, but then touching common touch points and then touching their face, cell phone, etc with the same gloved hand.  For many, it's a "feel good" measure that can end up hurting overall if people count on that as opposed to in addition to good hygiene. 

I read that the virus can clinger in the air for 3 hours in an enclosed space.  Yesterday a mother with 2 kids under 5 in her cart was coughing and sneezing nearby.  I was glad I had a mask on.  I was thinking if they were carrying the virus and what I had read was true, someone walking through that area an hour later could get infected.

My issue is why didn't the hospitals have enough for staff?  Compared to all the other stuff they buy, mask are cheap.  They can easily keep 5K in stock and not even break the budget.  Each hospital makes millions in revenue every years.  So to spend some of that on mask that could be used even prior to CV is just poor planning.

I have mask, and will not donate them.  They're for personal usage.

On a side note, there was a guy in NY hoarding and price gouging mask.  They were confiscated.  So this brings up a dangerous president.  The government taking someones legal property without compensation.  I understand if they issued him a citation, but to take his property is troublesome. 

My issue is why didn't the hospitals have enough for staff?  Compared to all the other stuff they buy, mask are cheap.  They can easily keep 5K in stock and not even break the budget.  Each hospital makes millions in revenue every years.  So to spend some of that on mask that could be used even prior to CV is just poor planning.

I have mask, and will not donate them.  They're for personal usage.

On a side note, there was a guy in NY hoarding and price gouging mask.  They were confiscated.  So this brings up a dangerous president.  The government taking someones legal property without compensation.  I understand if they issued him a citation, but to take his property is troublesome.

Which dangerous president?  Nixon?   

Which dangerous president?  Nixon?   

Hahaha, good one. I stay tink da word he lookin fo is precedent.

My issue is why didn't the hospitals have enough for staff?  Compared to all the other stuff they buy, mask are cheap.  They can easily keep 5K in stock and not even break the budget.  Each hospital makes millions in revenue every years.  So to spend some of that on mask that could be used even prior to CV is just poor planning.

I have mask, and will not donate them.  They're for personal usage.

On a side note, there was a guy in NY hoarding and price gouging mask.  They were confiscated.  So this brings up a dangerous president.  The government taking someones legal property without compensation.  I understand if they issued him a citation, but to take his property is troublesome.

Nobody, even hospitals, stockpiles cases on top of cases of single-use disposable masks in quantities necessary for this kind of problem.

Storage, rotating stock, and the chance for damage and having to dispose of unused stock is always a concern.  Hospitals, like most businesses, buy things on a periodic, recurring basis.  When stock is used faster, they order more for next delivery.  When used slower, they reduce that order.  Keeping just what they think they will use during a "normally busy" period is what they will do.  If they need more, there's always a way to get them.  At least, until EVERY PERSON, HOSPITAL and BUSINESS starts buying up the entire nation's stock of masks out of panic.

Over time, these masks can start to become less effective while sitting in storage.  If they never get used, it's wasted money and resources.

Prepping is a balancing act. How much of your income do you set aside for buying stuff you will likely never use?

Hind sight is 20/20.  Maybe some smart person will invent a reusable mask that is safer and easier to use and clean than what's available now.

The police "take" others' property all the time.  It's called collecting evidence.

I can't agree more.  The doctor in the video sounds like she was reading my mind.   

There are "what if everybody wore a mask?" academic thought exercises.  Then there is reality -- not enough masks to properly equip everybody.

There are still people refusing to not gather in large numbers.  And these are the people some believe will wear masks for the good of everyone?  If everyone doesn't use a mask, along with following the distancing and washing guidance, then we can't stop asymptomatic carriers from infecting others.  Plain and simple.  An uninfected person wearing a mask will get it, not exclusively, from touching something or through their eyes.

Short of wearing full Chem or HAZMAT suits, and going through a decontamination station every time you take the gear off, just having a mask is not the answer.

Short of wearing full Chem or HAZMAT suits, and going through a decontamination station every time you take the gear off, just having a mask is not the answer.

If what you say is true, will you donate whatever masks you have to those of us who want to use it?   

I am hitting my limit with the oversciencing stuff. People are going to die anyway, so just try your best to not spread it around. We cannot decontaminate the world.

If what you say is true, will you donate whatever masks you have to those of us who want to use it?   

I have masks that I use regularly for woodworking and spray-painting.  I'm not about to donate them when they have an effective, normal use.

They use replaceable filters.  I just installed new ones in each mask.  *IF* there is a need/reason to use them, I'm ready. 

Until then, my masks are not up for grabs, since I do have a need outside of this current situation.

Maybe you should try making a rational, logical point rather than trying to turn this around to make a (feeble) personal attack.

My dad was a degreed Microbiologist.
I remember helping him on his senior project.
Something to do with Typhus.
I assisted him in growing enough Typhus
that would kill everyone in the city of Long Beach
CA( according to him) Population 425,000
at the time.
He used to torture us kids.  One of our chores was to
wash dishes after meals.  His challenge was
You think that is clean?  He did this when we did not
follow his rather strict rules.
We had to prep a Petri dish and go through the
process of growing a culture, then prep it on a slide, and
then examine it under a microscope.
This really doesn't take very long and I had helped him do it
a hundred times in the School laboratory.

We scrubbed the hell out of the dishes, our hands,
and counter surfaces after seeing and identifying
what grew on our "Clean" surfaces.
Granted Viruses are different from Bacteria,
but the point was well made, Transmission
is insidious.
Wash up, use antiseptic on surfaces, and
don't openly cough or sneeze.
Most of the reason for a mask is for you to not
transmit your illness(germs) to someone else.

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-news-covid-19-prevention-new-study-proves-that-social-distancing-of-1-to-3-meters-is-nothing-but-fake-news-and-misinformation

BREAKING NEWS! Covid-19 Prevention: New Study Proves That Social Distancing Of 1 to 3 Meters Is Nothing But Fake News and Misinformation

Covid-19 Prevention: Many  are still wondering who is the charlatan who came the idea that social distancing of 1 to 3 meters would suffice to prevent the spread of the SARS CoV-2 coronavirus despite no official scientific studies to show that it true and is fully safe.
 
To make matters worse, since the beginning of this Covid-19 breakout, we have allowed government authorities, health officials, unreliable medical experts and academics, social media platforms and search engines and also health organizations to get away with fake news and misinformation. Many of these ignorant charlatans have been advocating social distancing and misleading the public that it is safe as long as distances of between 1 to 3 meters is maintained although there are no supporting scientific studies to say it works.
 
We at Thailand Medical News have always favoured stringent lockdowns, self-isolation, frequent testing as the main strategies to curtail the spread. Now with more studies emerging that social distancing really does not work, we strongly advocate that individuals and the public worldwide start taking legal actions and class suits against all sites, experts and authorities advocating social distancing of between 1 to 3 meters as these ignorant buffoons are actually endangering the lives of many.

A new research by qualified experts in their field from the MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) lead by Dr Lydia Bourouiba, an Associate Professor at MIT, have researched the dynamics of exhalations (coughs and sneezes, for instance) for years at The Fluid Dynamics of Disease Transmission Laboratory and found exhalations cause gaseous clouds that can travel up to 27 feet (8.2 meters).

The new research is published in the Journal of The American Medical Association (JAMA).  DOI: 10.1001/jama.2020.4756
 
The new research could have implications for the global Covid-19 pandemic, though measures called for by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization call for six and three feet (0.9 m and 1.8 m) of space, respectively.(It should be noted that The WHO from day one has failed to prevent the global spread of the Covid-19 that originated from China plus they were the very same entity that advocated no border closures and no stopping of travel along with a lot of other misinformation that have resulted in the predicament that the world is in and yet no one has started any actions against any of these individuals while the US CDC is the hopeless entity that messed up on the diagnosing criteria and also on arranging of sufficient test kits that has resulted in the mess that the United Sates is in today yet no one from the entity has done the right thing of stepping down due to their incompetency. The American public and the world should never forget these two entities and the names and individuals associated.)
 
Dr Bourouiba told Thailand Medical News, "There's an urgency in revising the guidelines currently being given by the WHO and the CDC on the needs for social distancing and also protective equipment, particularly for the frontline health care workers.”
 
Dr Bourouiba's research calls for better measures to protect health care workers and, potentially, more distance from infected people who are coughing or sneezing. She said current guidelines are based on "large droplets" as the method of transmission for the virus and the idea that those large droplets can only go a certain distance.
 
In the research study, Bourouiba said peak exhalation speeds can reach 33 to 100 feet per second (36 km/h and 110 km/h) and "currently used surgical and N95 masks are not tested for these potential characteristics of respiratory emissions."
 
The dangerous idea being propagated by many that  social distancing of between 1 to 3 meters based that droplets "hit a virtual wall and stop there and after that we are safe," is not based on evidence found in her research, Dr Bourouiba said, and also not based on "evidence that we have about COVID transmission."
 
Dr Bourouiba argued that a "gaseous cloud" that can carry droplets of all sizes is emitted when a person coughs, sneezes or otherwise exhales. The cloud is only partially mitigated by sneezing or coughing into your elbow.
 
She added, "In terms of the fluid regime on how the exhalations are emitted, the key point that we have shown is that there's a gaseous cloud that carries droplets of all sorts of sizes, not 'large' versus 'small' or 'droplets' versus 'aerosols.'"
 
Professor Dr  Paul Pottinger, an infectious disease expert at the University of Washington School of Medicine, said questions remain about the distances at which the virus is effective.
 
He said, "For me, the question is not how far the germs can travel, but how far can they travel before they're no longer a threat. The smaller the germ particles, the lower the risk that they might infect somebody who would breathe them in or get them stuck in their nose or their mouth.”
 
He added, "The biggest threat we think with the coronavirus is actually the larger droplets. Droplets of saliva, snot, spit. Droplets that almost look like rain, if you will, when someone sneezes. Those droplets are large enough that gravity still acts on them. Usually, within about six feet of leaving somebody's body, those larger, more infectious droplets will drop to the ground. That's where the six-foot rule comes from. But it is the smaller and minute droplets that can be propelled by air and wind that is off a concern"
 
When questioned about this new study, the hopeless World Health Organisation (WHO) referred to a recent scientific brief on the methods of transmission, which recommended "droplet and contact precautions for those people caring for COVID-19 patients." The CDC did not respond to an emailed request for comment.
 
WHO however said later in a statement, "WHO carefully monitors emerging evidence about this critical topic and will update this scientific brief as more information becomes available. WHO welcomes modeling studies, which are helpful for planning purposes. WHO teams work with several modeling groups to inform our work."
 
As the SARS-Cov-2 coronavirus  were effective at ranges of up to 27 feet (8.2 meters), as Bourouiba contends in her research, Dr Pottinger said he believes more people would be sick and more could have been affected as a result of the previous misinformation.
 
He added, "It takes a certain number of viral particles, we call them 'virions,' or individual viruses, it takes a certain number of individual viruses to actually get a foothold inside the body and cause that infection to get going.”
 
He further added, "Now, we don't know exactly what that number is, but it's probably more than a single virus. But we do know that this SARS-CoV-2 virus travels very efficiently by air.”
 
Dr Bourouiba said she wants to see recommendations made based on current science not "policies based on supply, for example, because we don't have enough PPE (personal protective equipment)." It's well-known PPE is in short supply nationwide and health care workers have been desperately trying to find effective ways to deal with shortages.
 
She added, "Although there remains a lot of questions to be addressed about how much virus is at a given distance or not, we have no answer one way or another at this time. Therefore, the precautionary principle should drive the policies to state that we should have high-grade respirators used for health care workers."
 
She stressed, "Once that's decided, that's the thrust that's needed to now mobilize most effectively the kind of tremendous high production level that is possible to reach in a great country like the United States. This thrust is not happening."

Please share this article to as many of your friends and loved ones to save their lives.
 
For the latest on strategies of Covid-19 prevention, keep logging on to; Thailand Medical News.

PS: We do not apologise for the name calling nor apologise for lowering professional standards for such actions as we are pained by the lost of some of our close medical and healthcare professionals and colleagues that we personally know in countries like Italy, Spain, the United States and elsewhere. They are hundreds dying by the hour and millions soon too. Its time to stop being politically correct and even hypocritical and its time for people to start being vocal and proactive. People need to be told the truth and medical sites with the right information should not be stopped by threats or even being financially threatened by corporate entities that are being controlled by governments.

PLEASE HELP. URGENT APPEAL: Please help support our site and our initiatives to propel and aid research by making a donation to help sustain the site. Donations are accepted via paypal: https://www.thailandmedical.news/p/sponsorship

is there a reason you only post articles from thailandmedical.news?

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-news-covid-19-prevention-new-study-proves-that-social-distancing-of-1-to-3-meters-is-nothing-but-fake-news-and-misinformation

BREAKING NEWS! Covid-19 Prevention: New Study Proves That Social Distancing Of 1 to 3 Meters Is Nothing But Fake News and Misinformation

Covid-19 Prevention: Many  are still wondering who is the charlatan who came the idea that social distancing of 1 to 3 meters would suffice to prevent the spread of the SARS CoV-2 coronavirus despite no official scientific studies to show that it true and is fully safe.
 
To make matters worse, since the beginning of this Covid-19 breakout, we have allowed government authorities, health officials, unreliable medical experts and academics, social media platforms and search engines and also health organizations to get away with fake news and misinformation. Many of these ignorant charlatans have been advocating social distancing and misleading the public that it is safe as long as distances of between 1 to 3 meters is maintained although there are no supporting scientific studies to say it works.
 
We at Thailand Medical News have always favoured stringent lockdowns, self-isolation, frequent testing as the main strategies to curtail the spread. Now with more studies emerging that social distancing really does not work, we strongly advocate that individuals and the public worldwide start taking legal actions and class suits against all sites, experts and authorities advocating social distancing of between 1 to 3 meters as these ignorant buffoons are actually endangering the lives of many.

A new research by qualified experts in their field from the MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) lead by Dr Lydia Bourouiba, an Associate Professor at MIT, have researched the dynamics of exhalations (coughs and sneezes, for instance) for years at The Fluid Dynamics of Disease Transmission Laboratory and found exhalations cause gaseous clouds that can travel up to 27 feet (8.2 meters).

The new research is published in the Journal of The American Medical Association (JAMA).  DOI: 10.1001/jama.2020.4756
 
The new research could have implications for the global Covid-19 pandemic, though measures called for by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization call for six and three feet (0.9 m and 1.8 m) of space, respectively.(It should be noted that The WHO from day one has failed to prevent the global spread of the Covid-19 that originated from China plus they were the very same entity that advocated no border closures and no stopping of travel along with a lot of other misinformation that have resulted in the predicament that the world is in and yet no one has started any actions against any of these individuals while the US CDC is the hopeless entity that messed up on the diagnosing criteria and also on arranging of sufficient test kits that has resulted in the mess that the United Sates is in today yet no one from the entity has done the right thing of stepping down due to their incompetency. The American public and the world should never forget these two entities and the names and individuals associated.)
 
Dr Bourouiba told Thailand Medical News, "There's an urgency in revising the guidelines currently being given by the WHO and the CDC on the needs for social distancing and also protective equipment, particularly for the frontline health care workers.”
 
Dr Bourouiba's research calls for better measures to protect health care workers and, potentially, more distance from infected people who are coughing or sneezing. She said current guidelines are based on "large droplets" as the method of transmission for the virus and the idea that those large droplets can only go a certain distance.
 
In the research study, Bourouiba said peak exhalation speeds can reach 33 to 100 feet per second (36 km/h and 110 km/h) and "currently used surgical and N95 masks are not tested for these potential characteristics of respiratory emissions."
 
The dangerous idea being propagated by many that  social distancing of between 1 to 3 meters based that droplets "hit a virtual wall and stop there and after that we are safe," is not based on evidence found in her research, Dr Bourouiba said, and also not based on "evidence that we have about COVID transmission."
 
Dr Bourouiba argued that a "gaseous cloud" that can carry droplets of all sizes is emitted when a person coughs, sneezes or otherwise exhales. The cloud is only partially mitigated by sneezing or coughing into your elbow.
 
She added, "In terms of the fluid regime on how the exhalations are emitted, the key point that we have shown is that there's a gaseous cloud that carries droplets of all sorts of sizes, not 'large' versus 'small' or 'droplets' versus 'aerosols.'"
 
Professor Dr  Paul Pottinger, an infectious disease expert at the University of Washington School of Medicine, said questions remain about the distances at which the virus is effective.
 
He said, "For me, the question is not how far the germs can travel, but how far can they travel before they're no longer a threat. The smaller the germ particles, the lower the risk that they might infect somebody who would breathe them in or get them stuck in their nose or their mouth.”
 
He added, "The biggest threat we think with the coronavirus is actually the larger droplets. Droplets of saliva, snot, spit. Droplets that almost look like rain, if you will, when someone sneezes. Those droplets are large enough that gravity still acts on them. Usually, within about six feet of leaving somebody's body, those larger, more infectious droplets will drop to the ground. That's where the six-foot rule comes from. But it is the smaller and minute droplets that can be propelled by air and wind that is off a concern"
 
When questioned about this new study, the hopeless World Health Organisation (WHO) referred to a recent scientific brief on the methods of transmission, which recommended "droplet and contact precautions for those people caring for COVID-19 patients." The CDC did not respond to an emailed request for comment.
 
WHO however said later in a statement, "WHO carefully monitors emerging evidence about this critical topic and will update this scientific brief as more information becomes available. WHO welcomes modeling studies, which are helpful for planning purposes. WHO teams work with several modeling groups to inform our work."
 
As the SARS-Cov-2 coronavirus  were effective at ranges of up to 27 feet (8.2 meters), as Bourouiba contends in her research, Dr Pottinger said he believes more people would be sick and more could have been affected as a result of the previous misinformation.
 
He added, "It takes a certain number of viral particles, we call them 'virions,' or individual viruses, it takes a certain number of individual viruses to actually get a foothold inside the body and cause that infection to get going.”
 
He further added, "Now, we don't know exactly what that number is, but it's probably more than a single virus. But we do know that this SARS-CoV-2 virus travels very efficiently by air.”
 
Dr Bourouiba said she wants to see recommendations made based on current science not "policies based on supply, for example, because we don't have enough PPE (personal protective equipment)." It's well-known PPE is in short supply nationwide and health care workers have been desperately trying to find effective ways to deal with shortages.
 
She added, "Although there remains a lot of questions to be addressed about how much virus is at a given distance or not, we have no answer one way or another at this time. Therefore, the precautionary principle should drive the policies to state that we should have high-grade respirators used for health care workers."
 
She stressed, "Once that's decided, that's the thrust that's needed to now mobilize most effectively the kind of tremendous high production level that is possible to reach in a great country like the United States. This thrust is not happening."

Please share this article to as many of your friends and loved ones to save their lives.
 
For the latest on strategies of Covid-19 prevention, keep logging on to; Thailand Medical News.

PS: We do not apologise for the name calling nor apologise for lowering professional standards for such actions as we are pained by the lost of some of our close medical and healthcare professionals and colleagues that we personally know in countries like Italy, Spain, the United States and elsewhere. They are hundreds dying by the hour and millions soon too. Its time to stop being politically correct and even hypocritical and its time for people to start being vocal and proactive. People need to be told the truth and medical sites with the right information should not be stopped by threats or even being financially threatened by corporate entities that are being controlled by governments.

PLEASE HELP. URGENT APPEAL: Please help support our site and our initiatives to propel and aid research by making a donation to help sustain the site. Donations are accepted via paypal: https://www.thailandmedical.news/p/sponsorship

I don't ONLY post from them.

I just post the most interesting and relevant articles that I randomly see from around the Web.

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-news-covid-19-prevention-new-study-proves-that-social-distancing-of-1-to-3-meters-is-nothing-but-fake-news-and-misinformation
:
:
We at Thailand Medical News have always favoured stringent lockdowns, self-isolation, frequent testing as the main strategies to curtail the spread. Now with more studies emerging that social distancing really does not work, we strongly advocate that individuals and the public worldwide start taking legal actions and class suits against all sites, experts and authorities advocating social distancing of between 1 to 3 meters as these ignorant buffoons are actually endangering the lives of many.
:
:
PLEASE HELP. URGENT APPEAL: Please help support our site and our initiatives to propel and aid research by making a donation to help sustain the site. Donations are accepted via paypal: https://www.thailandmedical.news/p/sponsorship

Yeah.  Legal action.  That always helps in emergency situations.   

And begging for donations to support a media (not medical) website so they can continue bashing anyone who supports well-documented, effective measures to reduce the risk of spreading germs tells us all we need to know.

Yeah.  Legal action.  That always helps in emergency situations.   

And begging for donations to support a media (not medical) website so they can continue bashing anyone who supports well-documented, effective measures to reduce the risk of spreading germs tells us all we need to know.

Did you read the article? It specifically quotes the new MIT research which specifically debunks the "well-documented, effective measures to reduce the risk of spreading germs."

IMO, there's a lot of folks trying to make parallels for analysis that isn't intended to be used that way.  For instance, it is my understanding that a lot of the guidance is based on statistics, not zero exposure.  Similar to gun statistics, people either tend to take it how they want to in order to fit their narrative as well as take observation trends and make rules about them.  In the end, context is key. . . If say a strategy is based on reducing exposure on basis of statistics to "flatten the curve", it may not necessarily jive with an approach in which say an infectious disease doctor would, especially given a context of having dealt with pathogens with much higher lethality. 

One of my best friends is an infectious disease PhD type.  Her research is actually in detection technologies, but it was interesting to see her perspectives on things when she had kids.  I would think given her background, she'd be quite protective of her kids.  But not really.  Though with CV19, her angst is mostly media and people taking things out of context and things going to the extremes, in both directions. 

Anyways, my 0.02. . .

Did you read the article? It specifically quotes the new MIT research which specifically debunks the "well-documented, effective measures to reduce the risk of spreading germs."

That's not "new research."  Just old research recycled for today's pathogens and using better cameras and lasers.

I remember seeing these movies/films in the 70s and 80s, to get people to cover their mouths when coughing and sneezing.  That's before we started teaching people to use an elbow or sleeve versus a hand that you'll be using to spread germs to other surfaces.  In the 60s and before, most people carried a handkerchief.  That helped because sneezes were covered.  With the proliferation of Kleenex/tissues, people no longer carry cloth handkerchiefs, but neither do most carry tissues.  Hence the need to instruct people to use an elbow.

The CoronaSphere Lounge Episode 12: The Case for Masks



This Slo-Mo Sneeze Video Shows Just How Far Spray Clouds Can Spread

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/slo-mo-video-shows-just-how-big-sneeze-clouds-can-get-180960257/

DIY Science: How far does a sneeze travel? Snot science!



MythBusters - Art of the Sneeze | Flu Fiction