Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st (Read 21184 times)

matt0137

Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« on: April 24, 2020, 05:42:49 PM »
Please come down to the capitol on May 1st at noon to protest the lockdown of Hawaii and get Ige/Caldwell to ReOpen Hawaii.

For those of you on Facebook, there's a lot more information if you join one of the groups coordinating the event. Three are named "ReOpen Hawaii" and another "AR2 Hawaii". All of them will have information and I encourage everyone to join one or all of them. The group I created can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1158891071126420/

We need our "rulers" to hear from the citizens that we will not allow our constitutional rights to be trampled any longer. I've got to believe most members of this forum know what it's like to have your constitutional rights questioned feels like.

Kuleana

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2020, 09:48:12 AM »
Please come down to the capitol on May 1st at noon to protest the lockdown of Hawaii and get Ige/Caldwell to ReOpen Hawaii.

For those of you on Facebook, there's a lot more information if you join one of the groups coordinating the event. Three are named "ReOpen Hawaii" and another "AR2 Hawaii". All of them will have information and I encourage everyone to join one or all of them. The group I created can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1158891071126420/

We need our "rulers" to hear from the citizens that we will not allow our constitutional rights to be trampled any longer. I've got to believe most members of this forum know what it's like to have your constitutional rights questioned feels like.

Aloha Matt,

I rejoice in your zeal in exercising your 1st Amendment right in expressing your view on the immediate reopening of Hawaii on the grounds of the capitol due to the current Covid-19 pandemic.  There have been many on this forum who sincerely share your view and I am confident those residing on this island will try to make time to join your rally.

Just a word of advice, which I am sure you must have already contemplated.  I sincerely hope those who join your rally will make an effort not to make it sound like the entire 2nd Amendment community is in 100% agreement with this stance.  There are some in this forum who are a little more cautious in lieu of an immediate reopening of the island for business and probably many more outside of those who support the 2nd Amendment.  Hence, it would not be in the political interest of the pro-gun community to be completely associated with the reopen Hawaii movement, which is two separate issues entirely.  Moreover, there may be many anti-gun supporters in the reopen Hawaii movement that I am sure you would not want to be seen, as their supporters as well.

Other than that, I wish you luck and have a great rally!   :shaka:


Kuleana

matt0137

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2020, 10:29:26 AM »
In the thousands of comments/posts I've read in my group and all the others, I have yet to see anyone include any type of "Pro-2a" aspect to this rally or even mention gun rights at all.

I'm trying to let as many people as I can know about the rally and my reason for posting here is that I figured there would be other members like myself who are against the current actions by Ige/Caldwell. Pro 2A people know all to well what it's like to have the government trample on your constitutional rights and this shutdown is another example of that. That's why I put this under the "Political Discussion" heading instead of something related to gun rights specifically. I'm sure there are members of this forum against opening up the economy and they won't be attending the rally which is fine. I'm not trying to gain any type of endorsement from any pro-gun rights group nor am I trying to speak on behalf of any group. Plus, I'm sure you're right that there are plenty of anti-gun people in this movement. I wouldn't know exactly because that's not a topic being discussed from what I've seen.

I don't know of any particular person or entity taking credit as the a sole organizer or figurehead of this rally because it's been a grassroots effort, but if there is it certainly isn't me. I can't control what people may put on signs or say if a camera is in front of them, but as I mentioned, I don't see anyone making this about gun rights and they shouldn't because it's not about that. I agree with you that this is a separate issue.

oldfart

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2020, 11:42:44 AM »
Hard to have a rally with everybody standing 6 ft apart :rofl:
What, Me Worry?

matt0137

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2020, 12:41:17 PM »
I doubt the 6' spread will be maintained.

However, the capitol area says its about 1.3 acres. If I assume the building footprint and other obstacles make up about .3 of those acres, you can still fit over 1200 people in the remaining open area and still maintain a 6' distance. :rofl:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2020, 12:48:19 PM »
Hard to have a rally with everybody standing 6 ft apart :rofl:

Hawaii is the WORST place to try and impose social distancing.  It's difficult to break people of a lifelong habit like hugging, kissing and shaking hands every time they greet someone!

Quote
Derived from the traditional Hawaiian honi ihu, a hug and a kiss on the cheek is a common greeting in
Hawaii, whether you’re meeting friends, family or new people. At business meetings, handshakes are
still acceptable.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2020, 02:29:06 PM »
Im gonna pass.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

ren

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2020, 08:40:03 PM »
So much negativity towards people who want to go back to work but much more support for a convoy that chased tourists away  :thumbsup: :shaka:
Deeds Not Words

matt0137

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2020, 10:35:32 PM »
As an American, I support everyone's right to their opinion and beliefs but as a student of economics, I will never understand the visceral hatred many have for tourism - the number one economic driver of the islands. If it were to end, there would be a ripple effect felt by every industry here... except for bankruptcy attorneys - they'd be making a fortune!

hvybarrels

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2020, 12:30:02 AM »
Economic driver? Definitely. But if you follow the tourism money trail you notice how much flows directly offshore vs how much stays here, and the the people who collect that offshore money do not have to live with the associated costs. Those costs are externalized on the local population in the form of increased cost of living aka Paradise Tax. One could argue that a better managed and smaller tourism industry could mean a lot more of that tourism money stays here and as a result we would not have to tax our own citizens to oblivion.  It is worth exploring now that we have some time to re-evaluate our position in the world.

I agree we should scale business back up a lot faster pace than we are now, but going too fast has the potential to make meaningless every sacrifice we have endured to this point.
I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

matt0137

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2020, 07:25:31 AM »
I agree that a lot of profit flows offshore and that comes down, primarily, to hotels and retail stores (mostly the high-end, fashion type stores). It seems unlikely that Hawaii is going to replicate the demand for brands like Gucci, Prada, etc so that leaves lodging. Short term rentals are a way to keep money circulating in the local economy but that was dealt a heavy blow last August which did nothing but favor the hotel lobby and strengthen their position. I'm not sure where you stand on it, but I saw a lot of the same "anti-tourist" voices complaining about short term rentals, so round and round we go. The hotel lobby won and even more money now funnels straight to them and offshore as you said. If you want to break the back of that lobby, more voices are needed in favor of decentralizing lodging.

Or you could just flat out restrict the number of visitors and keep it all smaller as you said. You are still looking at a massive loss of jobs. It sounds like you're saying that, by keeping the spending local, it will offset. Even using the most aggressive local multiplier in any economic model, you would not come even close to replacing what was lost. You'd also lose a huge check of the tax revenue from that volume of tourists (25% of the general fund comes from tourists) so either expect services to drop and/or taxes to skyrocket and that's all before adding in the loss due to the high unemployment. It would be crippling to the state and everyone here. I know many business owners think they have nothing to do with tourism, but many of your customers may rely on that money for their income. The house painter doesn't get hired if the hotel worker loses their job and has no money to pay for house painting, for example.

So you would have to replace a huge portion of the economy with something else, but that's a pipe dream. You're talking about a government-coordinated effort to attract a whole industry to sprout up or move to Hawaii and that's just not remotely feasible.

I'm glad you agree we need to start opening this economy back up.

ren

Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2020, 09:00:22 AM »
I understand the desire to open things back up, at least I think I do.  That said, what I hate is the hypocrisy of it all and many/all sides are guilty of that to a certain extent.  I know many folks who talk $hit about (insert D or R) politician for their policy and then go and do the same themselves.  One example is shaming Dem politicians for not abiding to stay at home order, but then will post on social media running training classes inside a gym with multiple students with justification that they are "social distancing".   ::)  Give me a break.  Just an example of justifying what they want to do while holding others to higher standards.

Anyways, sorry for the rant. . .

Kuleana

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2020, 09:30:13 AM »
I agree that a lot of profit flows offshore and that comes down, primarily, to hotels and retail stores (mostly the high-end, fashion type stores). It seems unlikely that Hawaii is going to replicate the demand for brands like Gucci, Prada, etc so that leaves lodging. Short term rentals are a way to keep money circulating in the local economy but that was dealt a heavy blow last August which did nothing but favor the hotel lobby and strengthen their position. I'm not sure where you stand on it, but I saw a lot of the same "anti-tourist" voices complaining about short term rentals, so round and round we go. The hotel lobby won and even more money now funnels straight to them and offshore as you said. If you want to break the back of that lobby, more voices are needed in favor of decentralizing lodging.

Or you could just flat out restrict the number of visitors and keep it all smaller as you said. You are still looking at a massive loss of jobs. It sounds like you're saying that, by keeping the spending local, it will offset. Even using the most aggressive local multiplier in any economic model, you would not come even close to replacing what was lost. You'd also lose a huge check of the tax revenue from that volume of tourists (25% of the general fund comes from tourists) so either expect services to drop and/or taxes to skyrocket and that's all before adding in the loss due to the high unemployment. It would be crippling to the state and everyone here. I know many business owners think they have nothing to do with tourism, but many of your customers may rely on that money for their income. The house painter doesn't get hired if the hotel worker loses their job and has no money to pay for house painting, for example.

So you would have to replace a huge portion of the economy with something else, but that's a pipe dream. You're talking about a government-coordinated effort to attract a whole industry to sprout up or move to Hawaii and that's just not remotely feasible.

I'm glad you agree we need to start opening this economy back up.


There is no argument as to the decision to reopen Hawaii's economy.  We need to restart business activity as soon as we can.  However, such a reopening had its own problems.

First and foremost is the ongoing pandemic of Covid-19, insufficient availability of testing kits, absence of a safe and reliable vaccine, and the lack of credible information of that virus to establish uniform protocols of prevention and treatment.  Until these Covid-19 related issues are reasonably addressed, global consumer confidence will be low; thus, influencing peoples choices to spend and corporations decision to invest.  Especially in any tourist or non-tourist dominant economy, even if you open for business right now, there just isn't much discretionary income out there, since many have lost their employment due to the Covid-19 shutdown orders.  Hawaii's official economy is run by an oligarchic bunch of ultrawealthy that predominantly compromise the tourism, construction, and real estate sectors, whose soft power is clearly seen by the laws passed by the local government that always favor their interests and not the common people.  For example, notice how construction was listed as an essential business not effected by the shutdown.

In addition to focusing on tourism, I advocate Hawaii looking at the other major industries in the islands to see whether a complete revamping is in order.  For example, Hawaii is an ideal place to grow food and there already exists a number of people who operate in diversified agriculture.  Despite the number and revenue generated, however, Hawaii is still dependent on food shipped from the continental US and from Asia.  Clearly, something is wrong here and now is a good time for the government and residents to flirt with creative ideas to further expand the agriculture sector, especially when contemplating possible food shortages due to Covid-19.

Another area that many people often brag and overstate is the importance of Hawaii's military spending.  Other than contributing to such items like the rental home industry and employing some island residents on its bases, its economic contribution to Hawaii in relation to the amount of land and water it uses is not economically efficient.  Moreover, according to the US Small Business Association's Office of Advocacy, Hawaii has not been able to collect much general excise tax revenues because many subcontracted businesses operating in Hawaii's military bases are out-of-state entities that are able to avoid Hawaii's GET in the calculation of their costs (https://advocacy.sba.gov/2019/08/19/hawaiis-general-excise-tax-puts-local-small-business-at-a-disadvantage/) .  This leads to many local small businesses unable to win federal contracts, whose earned profits would stay circulated in Hawaii, rather than be exported somewhere else.  I advocate the closure of many military assets in Hawaii to be redeveloped for commercial use that will in effect create more opportunities for middle class jobs as well as residential use for more affordable housing.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 09:35:27 AM by Kuleana »

hvybarrels

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2020, 10:58:35 AM »
I agree that a lot of profit flows offshore and that comes down, primarily, to hotels and retail stores (mostly the high-end, fashion type stores). It seems unlikely that Hawaii is going to replicate the demand for brands like Gucci, Prada, etc so that leaves lodging. Short term rentals are a way to keep money circulating in the local economy but that was dealt a heavy blow last August which did nothing but favor the hotel lobby and strengthen their position. I'm not sure where you stand on it, but I saw a lot of the same "anti-tourist" voices complaining about short term rentals, so round and round we go. The hotel lobby won and even more money now funnels straight to them and offshore as you said. If you want to break the back of that lobby, more voices are needed in favor of decentralizing lodging.

Or you could just flat out restrict the number of visitors and keep it all smaller as you said. You are still looking at a massive loss of jobs. It sounds like you're saying that, by keeping the spending local, it will offset. Even using the most aggressive local multiplier in any economic model, you would not come even close to replacing what was lost. You'd also lose a huge check of the tax revenue from that volume of tourists (25% of the general fund comes from tourists) so either expect services to drop and/or taxes to skyrocket and that's all before adding in the loss due to the high unemployment. It would be crippling to the state and everyone here. I know many business owners think they have nothing to do with tourism, but many of your customers may rely on that money for their income. The house painter doesn't get hired if the hotel worker loses their job and has no money to pay for house painting, for example.

So you would have to replace a huge portion of the economy with something else, but that's a pipe dream. You're talking about a government-coordinated effort to attract a whole industry to sprout up or move to Hawaii and that's just not remotely feasible.


The scenarios you are painting are both extremes. There are a lot of options worth exploring between laissez faire capitalism vs. overregulation and shutting down entire industries. Same with letting people get back to work after a pandemic. The response to the problems has to be responsible and take its cues from what is happening on the ground vs following the dictates of ideology.
I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

groveler

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2020, 02:20:06 PM »
I really held off making a comment on this post,
but after reading the comments, I felt I needed
to make some remarks.
#1 I can't attend, the state demands a 14 day quarantine,  if I were to show up.
     We lost the freedom to peacefully assemble when Democrats were elected.
#2 I really don't think Rally's do anything, but I know Riots cause change.
#3 I really don't  think there is anybody alive in Hawaii today that remembers the Good Ole
     days before Europeans wrecked the islands, so I don't really find their fantasies/oral "traditions"
     compelling.
#4 I don't like any Tourists.  I could care less if they ever came back.  The damage that causes is
     regrettable.  But keep in mind the Democrats in Hawaii caused it.  South Dakota didn't shut down.
     People are still going to Mt. Rushmore. Nobody is going to Kilauea.
#5 Military is not Hawaii's problem for outrageous housing , food, utilities, taxes, et al costs.  Hawaiian elected
     officials are.  You "guys" have the government YOU voted for.
#6 There is no possibly for improvement in Hawaii's economy as long as  we keep electing the people that
     put us where we are. You "guys" got the government YOU voted for and I don't think you have sufficient intelligence
     to figure that out.
#7 "guys" outnumber people that are reflective, question, and research before coming to a decision.  So we here are lost,
     do the best you can.



robtmc

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2020, 05:44:54 PM »
#6 You "guys" got the government YOU voted for and I don't think you have sufficient intelligence
     to figure that out.
#7 "guys" outnumber people that are reflective, question, and research before coming to a decision.  So we here are lost,
     do the best you can.
Pretty much sums up what happened to California, except it was out of state invaders that screwed it up, and are now the majority.  Calif natives tended to be conservative as witness the governors they used to elect.

matt0137

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2020, 06:02:30 PM »
Does anybody on this forum honestly believe that we have free and fair elections?

For a long time I thought, since I'm conservative, I'm more likely to be friends with like-minded people who will mostly be conservative and it just seems like more people think the way I do. I don't believe that anymore. The majority of random conversations I have that end up with some amount of political comment, a conservative point of view is expressed. If you look at comments on news articles, they are predominately conservative in an arena where conservatives are less likely to be commenting than more liberal activist types. I'm sorry but I just don't believe it.

With all due respect to robtmc and groveler - your comments are that the people have done it to themselves, but I don't think they did. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but if the deck is stacked against us from the beginning, no amount of convincing people or arguing through regular channels will do anything. It's going to take a movement more akin to another American Revolution than just making logical arguments online. Make this Friday the start of a movement to break the back of the ruling class here - just my humble suggestion.

groveler

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2020, 08:06:31 PM »
Does anybody on this forum honestly believe that we have free and fair elections?

For a long time I thought, since I'm conservative, I'm more likely to be friends with like-minded people who will mostly be conservative and it just seems like more people think the way I do. I don't believe that anymore. The majority of random conversations I have that end up with some amount of political comment, a conservative point of view is expressed. If you look at comments on news articles, they are predominately conservative in an arena where conservatives are less likely to be commenting than more liberal activist types. I'm sorry but I just don't believe it.

With all due respect to robtmc and groveler - your comments are that the people have done it to themselves, but I don't think they did. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but if the deck is stacked against us from the beginning, no amount of convincing people or arguing through regular channels will do anything. It's going to take a movement more akin to another American Revolution than just making logical arguments online. Make this Friday the start of a movement to break the back of the ruling class here - just my humble suggestion.
Very good and inspirational comment.
I wish you luck.
From a historical perspective I'd compare you to
the Polish Calvary going against the Wehrmacht.
eg Good guys against the Democrats.

drck1000

Re: Rally to ReOpen Hawaii May 1st
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2020, 01:52:43 PM »
Does anybody on this forum honestly believe that we have free and fair elections?

For a long time I thought, since I'm conservative, I'm more likely to be friends with like-minded people who will mostly be conservative and it just seems like more people think the way I do. I don't believe that anymore. The majority of random conversations I have that end up with some amount of political comment, a conservative point of view is expressed. If you look at comments on news articles, they are predominately conservative in an arena where conservatives are less likely to be commenting than more liberal activist types. I'm sorry but I just don't believe it.

With all due respect to robtmc and groveler - your comments are that the people have done it to themselves, but I don't think they did. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but if the deck is stacked against us from the beginning, no amount of convincing people or arguing through regular channels will do anything. It's going to take a movement more akin to another American Revolution than just making logical arguments online. Make this Friday the start of a movement to break the back of the ruling class here - just my humble suggestion.
Not sure what arenas you're referring to, but I've seen the tide change (albeit slow and sporadic) on comments on stuff HNN and KHON are reporting at times.  Still super liberal sheep/parrots, but have seen a lot more opposition postings/statements in maybe the last year or so.  Particularly in postings on gun control, crime, etc.  I general, I think people are fed up with the state of things in Hawaii.  Will it lead to wholesale change?  No, but I am encouraged by what I've been seeing.  Maybe naive or uber optimistic thinking, but I don't think many who know me well could consider super optimistic.