Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire (Read 30886 times)

Kuleana

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2020, 09:54:09 AM »
The point I’m making is there would not be a need for the “ultra wealthy” to pay off politicians to provide tax loopholes if there was no income tax in the first place. No body should have to pay income tax.

How are you basing the presumption that the ultrawealthy's only motive in bribing US lawmakers is to avoid federal income taxes?  There are many other reasons why it would be in the interest of the ultrawealthy to bribe politicians.  Furthermore, all nations levy taxes on their citizens as the primary means of generating revenue.  Suppose you got rid of federal income taxation, what would take its place? 

 

I pay $20k+ per year in taxes, what the hell do I get in return that I could not get in the private sector for wayyy cheaper or way more quality?

How about law enforcement and the armed forces to deter foreign invasion?  Are you suggesting that we privatize both institutions and have "Robocops" patrolling the streets and "Blackwater mercenaries/contractors" defending America?



What exactly is a corporations “fair share”? They provide a product/services that enrich our lives AND provide jobs for people so they can feed their families.

Fair share is whatever the people of a country determines it to be.

Corporations are not there to benefit the people; they are there to make profit and enrich their shareholders.  There is nothing illegal with that; however, the profit motive and what's best for the societal good are often not aligned and can negatively affect the health and well-being of the population and society.




As far as e offshore jobs that’s what happens when you hamper corporations with regulations and taxes. It’s the same reason no one wants to open up businesses in Hawaii.

Hawaii is definitely overregulated.  However, this situation has more to do with creating a dependence with the continental US, which is another sovereign story completely.



Also chinas economy is surpassing America because, again, they do not have the same labor regulations, taxes, and environmental regulations that make it impossible to do business in America.

Not exactly true.

Many businesses in China are not shackled with American-type business regulations; however, the Chinese government does a lot of central economic planning and all businesses do surrender to the will of the government.  Not bad, if you consider the fact that China has and is currently the most successful economic socialist-led country in World history.

Brystont1

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2020, 10:46:51 AM »


I never said that was their ONLY motive, the tax loopholes is what you brought up. Obviously there are way more things that they want to bribe politicians for. Subsidies, tax cuts, government contracts (guaranteed money) are just the tip of the iceberg. I don’t care what “other countries” primary means of generating revenue for the government is. This is America and for a while up to the early 1900’s we never had an income tax. Ideally the income tax would be replaced by.. nothing. No income tax means no dumbass departments and programs that do nothing.

Again we didn’t have an income tax and we still had law enforcement, and firefighters. I’m also curious as to what you think current police officers are today. To me their nothing but private organizations that are run by the government. They violate constitutional amendments left and right yet they are government run, so what’s the difference? Also theirs no evidence that suggest we can’t have a strong army without an income tax, we just need to have the proper sized government.

“A corporations fair share is what the people determine.” Go open up a business and when it becomes large and successful we will come in and tell you what your fair share is. After you’ve worked 20+ hours a day building your company investing your own money and labor, well see how you feel when an angry mob of losers come demanding more things from your successful company because “I don’t have enough”. You seem to not understand that the profit motive of a company is exactly what we want. A company cannot create a profit if they do not have something that we want. Therefore if they are turning a profit it is because they sold us something we needed/wanted.

hvybarrels

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2020, 11:16:59 AM »
The income tax is also responsible for redistributing wealth upwards on the grand pyramid scheme, which means it is stealing money from workers to give to the elite. There are a host of other taxes that can be levied that do not reward those who are greedy, corrupt, and powerful enough to game the system. It is a feature, not a bug. Much like the ever increasing frequency and severity of economic crashes.
If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2020, 02:19:39 PM »
The income tax is also responsible for redistributing wealth upwards on the grand pyramid scheme, which means it is stealing money from workers to give to the elite. There are a host of other taxes that can be levied that do not reward those who are greedy, corrupt, and powerful enough to game the system. It is a feature, not a bug. Much like the ever increasing frequency and severity of economic crashes.

The tax code was never supposed to become a mechanism for behavioral and economic shaping , but that's all it seems to be now.

If the law makers want more people to buy homes, or cars, or baby safety seats, they add a tax deduction or credit for it.

If they want more people investing in the stock market, they lower capital gains tax.

If they want people to give more to charity, they increase the ability of people to claim deductions even if not itemizing.

It's to the  point where nobody wants to make their own decisions about anything involving money until they consult their tax advisor.

It's not that the corporations are greedy, it's that the tax code is a multi-headed monster that needs to be cut down to size.  Look at all the damage Obamacare caused trying to tax people for not having insurance.  it's insane what the tax system has evolved into. 

There's no way arguing over who should be paying more is solving anything.  We should be looking at all the laws and striking them from existence.  Maybe then we can put to rest this monster that consumes $400+ billion from the economy in the form of planning, compliance, record-keeping and filing of our taxes.

Think of what those billions could be spent on other than the care and feeding of the government tax monster.

https://taxfoundation.org/compliance-costs-irs-regulations/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2020, 12:48:03 AM »
It gets way worse. Here is the story about how billionaires conned the environmental movement into handing over trillions of tax dollars toward green energy solutions that literally grind up chunks of the planet just to waste more energy than they actually create. There are many industries that only exist because of the corrupt administration of subsides, but these guys operate on an almost Satanic level of cynicism.

If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

Inspector

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2020, 04:12:40 AM »
The issue now is not fairness but instability. When income inequality reaches such obscene levels as we have now then a revolution becomes imminent. WB is a savvy investor with a keen eye of the future who can see the pitchforks and torches gathering while the Bezos, Gates, Musk, and the Waltons are still sucking up our tax money to buy back their own stock and starving their workers like everything is normal.

Where do you think the latest centrally coordinated and extremely well-funded push against gun rights came from? Bloomberg was the head of the worlds largest private army (NYPD) and was privy to the pentagon briefings on civil unrest.

At least Buffet has the good sense to know the hell on earth about to be unleashed by short sighted greed, bad policy, as well as lack of leadership and is trying to stick his finger in the dyke.
You said: “When income inequality reaches such obscene levels as we have now then a revolution becomes imminent.”

Okay, let me make sure I understand your statement. You are saying that we are now at a point that a revolution is going to happen? If I get your point correctly, please provide some proof that a revolution is now in the works. No innuendos, no predictions, real proof that there are groups of people currently forming somewhere piling up arms and plotting against the government to overthrow it. Just curious where this is happening so I can join in.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

groveler

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2020, 07:15:12 AM »
You said: “When income inequality reaches such obscene levels as we have now then a revolution becomes imminent.”

Okay, let me make sure I understand your statement. You are saying that we are now at a point that a revolution is going to happen? If I get your point correctly, please provide some proof that a revolution is now in the works. No innuendos, no predictions, real proof that there are groups of people currently forming somewhere piling up arms and plotting against the government to overthrow it. Just curious where this is happening so I can join in.
Inspector,
You and I are of similar age and background,
as kids, I suggest you read up on 4th generation warfare.
4GW,
Asymmetry is your friend.
I play Chess.
I don't play poker, ever.



Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2020, 08:59:44 AM »
Inspector,
You and I are of similar age and background,
as kids, I suggest you read up on 4th generation warfare.
4GW,
Asymmetry is your friend.
I play Chess.
I don't play poker, ever.

In chess, you must always have the better strategy and most power, or you'll lose -- there is no alternative.  The person with the king still on the board wins.

Poker gives the underdog the chance to win even when he's holding the weakest hand.

I like poker better -- getting your opponent to back down when he's got the advantage might be your only chance to win.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2020, 09:17:56 AM »
You said: “When income inequality reaches such obscene levels as we have now then a revolution becomes imminent.”

Okay, let me make sure I understand your statement. You are saying that we are now at a point that a revolution is going to happen? If I get your point correctly, please provide some proof that a revolution is now in the works. No innuendos, no predictions, real proof that there are groups of people currently forming somewhere piling up arms and plotting against the government to overthrow it. Just curious where this is happening so I can join in.

The picture you are painting is very specific. Think more along the lives of BLM, AOC, and the millions of people who were struggling paycheck to paycheck and suddenly facing total destitution while billionaires profit from the disaster. The tinder is dry. All it takes is the right spark.
If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

groveler

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2020, 11:18:52 AM »
In chess, you must always have the better strategy and most power, or you'll lose -- there is no alternative.  The person with the king still on the board wins.

Poker gives the underdog the chance to win even when he's holding the weakest hand.

I like poker better -- getting your opponent to back down when he's got the advantage might be your only chance to win.
Hey guy
Interesting point of view.
I was mentored by the best
in an Aerospace company where
failure is never an option.
I'm a stick in the mud.
Chess is about control.
Poker is gambling.
You would not go on one of my
airplanes if you thought it would fail.


Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2020, 11:27:50 AM »
Hey guy
Interesting point of view.
I was mentored by the best
in an Aerospace company where
failure is never an option.
I'm a stick in the mud.
Chess is about control.
Poker is gambling.
You would not go on one of my
airplanes if you thought it would fail.

Poker is a game of skill and mathematics.  There is an element of chance (the cards don't always follow the "rules"), but some games like Texas Hold'em where there are community cards, you can calculate what the probabilities are for your hand to win and what the other players likely are holding.

Even courts have agreed that poker is not gambling.

Poker Is More a Game of Skill Than of Chance,
a Judge Rules

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/nyregion/poker-is-more-a-game-of-skill-than-of-chance-a-judge-rules.html
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2020, 11:35:05 AM »
Hey guy
Interesting point of view.
I was mentored by the best
in an Aerospace company where
failure is never an option.
I'm a stick in the mud.
Chess is about control.
Poker is gambling.
You would not go on one of my
airplanes if you thought it would fail.
Poker is gambling if you’re playing casually.

Airplanes will always have risk too though.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2020, 11:38:16 AM »
Poker is gambling if you’re playing casually.

Airplanes will always have risk too though.

The funny thing is, people will pick the airline with the cheapest fares -- which may result in poorer maintenance and less qualified pilots.

 :shake:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2020, 11:44:10 AM »
Poker is a game of skill and mathematics.  There is an element of chance (the cards don't always follow the "rules"), but some games like Texas Hold'em where there are community cards, you can calculate what the probabilities are for your hand to win and what the other players likely are holding.

Even courts have agreed that poker is not gambling.

Poker Is More a Game of Skill Than of Chance,
a Judge Rules

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/nyregion/poker-is-more-a-game-of-skill-than-of-chance-a-judge-rules.html
I'm sorry I got an
A- in statistics.
That is what poker is.
If you want to call it mathematics.
fine.
My SIL is really good at poker!
He makes a living at it when
he gets short on contract
jobs.
I'd never play poker with my SIL
and he'd never play Chess with me.
BTW
Even my Dominoes play pisses the family
off as I take so much time.
I usually win.


drck1000

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2020, 11:45:13 AM »
The funny thing is, people will pick the airline with the cheapest fares -- which may result in poorer maintenance and less qualified pilots.

 :shake:

groveler

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2020, 11:58:33 AM »

I used to read all aircraft incidents
every morning.
it has been twenty years now so I can tell
this one.
There was an African( here you get crazy stuff)
a B707 got busted because the air crew
sold the pilot an co-pilot seats
and were sitting on milk crates
as they flew cargo around
Africa.
So much for $500 toilet seats.
Boeing makes a good airplane.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2020, 12:20:33 PM »
I'm sorry I got an
A- in statistics.
That is what poker is.
If you want to call it mathematics.
fine.
My SIL is really good at poker!
He makes a living at it when
he gets short on contract
jobs.
I'd never play poker with my SIL
and he'd never play Chess with me.
BTW
Even my Dominoes play pisses the family
off as I take so much time.
I usually win.
You say statistics -- I say probabilities.

My first computer science class in college was Matrix Mathematics and Game Theory.

Poker wasn't included in the lectures, but Black Jack was.  Both games' players benefit from statistical probabilities (if you can calculate them as the game progresses) which help predict the most likely outcomes.  Part of the classroom process included solving matrices to find the optimal decision.

If you don't learn to use the information available, then you are leaving your fate up to chance.  BJ is one of the few games in casinos that offer a skilled player a mathematical advantage over the house.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2020, 10:01:25 PM »
There will always be inequality of income because there will always be an inequality of production.

This is true but the next question is whether we should try to bring the things closer together.

hvybarrels

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2020, 10:36:47 PM »
This is true but the next question is whether we should try to bring the things closer together.

There is the moral argument, but then there is also the fact that an urban bubble of prosperity surrounded by crime ridden plague infested slums is not a sustainable arrangement. Humans are genetically hardwired to look after each other because of millions of years in the school of hard knocks, and a fancy new version of globalist exploitation is not going to upend the laws of physics.
If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ending Inequality in the Words of a Billionaire
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2020, 02:17:57 AM »
This is true but the next question is whether we should try to bring the things closer together.

Who is "we"? and what criteria do "we" use to decide what is close enough, and what needs to be closer?

Should McD cooks get a $10/hour raise because a shift supervisor gets paid salary vs. hourly wages?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw