Recent case,  a retired ranger,  now a LEO got fired days after telling his fellow colleges not to enforce unconstitutional covid19 laws

Just read about that.  The liberal governor heard about it and demanded he be fired.  His boss and fellow cops were possibly OK with his opinions, but the gov. was not.

It is a known fact that the police dept prefers to hire those of slightly below to very slightly above average intelligence.  If you score too high, like 120 IQ, you are not going to get hired.

Not sure if any local of federal law enforcement or the military has any official IQ requirements, but I am sure all of those institutions want people who are obedient and do not question orders.

^^^This because if they did have the ability to think, not 1 cop would enforce a red flag law and others like it against law abiding citizens.  They would also speak out againts their boss (the chief) for denying ALL CCW permits.  Don't even get me started on issuing of tickets and arrest to people exercising their 1a right.

Example: If an order is given to confiscate firearms, 1st question is "is the person a law abiding citizen".  2nd question would be "did they have their fair trial".  If 1st is yes and 2nd answer is no, then the cops would tell their supervisor no they cannot confiscate any firearms.

I don't think IQ will play a role in individuals who have been tasked to confiscate firearms.  I think it is the intestinal fortitude of individuals of their sense of what is right that will determine their actions on that matter.

Even then, I don't think there are many who will risk their careers for what they perceive is righteous.  For example, how many cases are there in law enforcement or the military for that matter, where someone willfully disobeyed an order they felt was unconstitutional?

I don't think IQ will play a role in individuals who have been tasked to confiscate firearms.  I think it is the intestinal fortitude of individuals of their sense of what is right that will determine their actions on that matter.

Even then, I don't think there are many who will risk their careers for what they perceive is righteous.  For example, how many cases are there in law enforcement or the military for that matter, where someone willfully disobeyed an order they felt was unconstitutional?

I was taught,  as I think every soldier/sailor since the Mi Lai(sp?)massacre, to disobey orders
that violated your morals, vows,  and beliefs.
You may be subject to punishment, but that is the way it is.
Better to lose a job than your soul.
The guy that is being burned is an Army Ranger, before he was a cop.
When you go in the military, you take an oath that doesn't have
a expiration date to uphold the Constitution.
I don't know what kind of oath Sworn cops take,
but obviously it is not to the ultimate law
of the land, the US Constitution.
Likely it is fealty to local Politics.

Not sure if any local of federal law enforcement or the military has any official IQ requirements, but I am sure all of those institutions want people who are obedient and do not question orders.

Of course they are not and cannot have an official standard, like if you score above 115 you are disqualified.  Someone of that intelligence would intentionally give a wrong answer to score lower.  There were several court cases that ruled in the PD favor.  One person had scored what translated to a 125 on the written test, had passed all the physical tests, had a clean record and was not hired whereas  several who scored lower than him on all tests were hired.  He sued the PD and lost even at the appeals court
level.

The reason PD don't like to hire smart people is because these people have the tendency to change jobs when something better comes along after receiving thousands of $ training.  I have a good friend as an example.  About 30 years ago he was a HPD officer for 2 years, getting a lot of training and experience.  He quit and became a private detective.  He is doing quite well.

Of course they are not and cannot have an official standard, like if you score above 115 you are disqualified.  Someone of that intelligence would intentionally give a wrong answer to score lower.  There were several court cases that ruled in the PD favor.  One person had scored what translated to a 125 on the written test, had passed all the physical tests, had a clean record and was not hired whereas  several who scored lower than him on all tests were hired.  He sued the PD and lost even at the appeals court
level.

The reason PD don't like to hire smart people is because these people have the tendency to change jobs when something better comes along after receiving thousands of $ training.  I have a good friend as an example.  About 30 years ago he was a HPD officer for 2 years, getting a lot of training and experience.  He quit and became a private detective.  He is doing quite well.

"Someone of that intelligence would intentionally give a wrong answer to score lower"
When I first joined the military
They had my school transcripts and knew I was
somewhat fluent in Mandarin Chinese.
They had me take a test in Bulgarian.
I asked the Procter how many do I need to get right to pass?
I think it was 23 out of 30.
I quit answering at #22.
I got 22 right.
Pissed off the Procter.
I did not want to spent 6 years
at some shithole listening post in Korea
or Europe.

Not sure if any local of federal law enforcement or the military has any official IQ requirements, but I am sure all of those institutions want people who are obedient and do not question orders.

I know you believe differently (stereotyping is your forte), but the military and law enforcement agencies have completely different missions and rules of engagement.  Even military police have different rules than civilian LE.

Knowing that, the military needs people with the APTITUDE to live and work, sometimes in remote & limited resource areas, and to be able to accomplish their mission.  There may be an officer onsite, but its common for the senior enlisted to know more about getting the job done than a junior officer.

The military NEEDS people with a higher IQ and even pays for the more motivated troops to complete college with an associate or bachelor degree.  With the level of technology in use in today's military, it is counter-intuitive to believe the military seeks out low IQ recruits.  Discipline, following orders and the other things you believe are only possible with thoughtless drones is total BS.

In LE, they are trained on the tools they are allowed to use.  There's little to no real innovation or improvising needed unlike those in the military.  Cops aren't using long range radar (except the handheld kind that carnival temps can operate to clock a fastball), drones, encryption, worldwide messaging systems, maintaining multimillion dollar aircraft, handling missiles and 5000 lb bombs, caring and feeding of nukes, etc.

Total apples and oranges when you look at the needs of each agency.

I was taught,  as I think every soldier/sailor since the Mi Lai(sp?)massacre, to disobey orders
that violated your morals, vows,  and beliefs.

The basic guidance we received as officers was:

Look at the cost of obeying a potentially illegal order.  If no one is going to die because of it, then you may be better off following the order to avoid being brought up on charges yourself, DOCUMENT the incident (including naming witnesses), then report the possibly illegal order after the fact.  If the investigation is legit and fair, you may learn that, while distasteful and seemingly unnecessary, there was information to which you were not privy that required those actions to SAVE lives.

Second-guessing the people giving the orders ignores the reality that they, too, are following orders.  Your little part in the bigger picture is not always apparent because you lack all the information needed to make that determination.

This is what they learned in missile silos. The movie War Games was loosely based on this.  There was a very disturbingly low rate of missile officers willing to turn the launch key when being ordered to.  They could not bring themselves to potentially kill millions without knowing why.

Cops, on the other hand, are making that judgement call themselves in the moment.  They aren't just following orders then they decide to pull the trigger.  If we are talking red flag laws, there are 2 distinct parts to the situation:  (1) the order to confiscate, and (2) the resistance they encounter.  If the order is lawful and signed by a judge, then they only want to get in and out without anyone getting hurt.  It's up to the gun owner to react in a way that keeps themselves safe. 

Nobody is ordering the Cops to go into a location and kill the inhabitants.

That's not always true of the military.

I was taught,  as I think every soldier/sailor since the Mi Lai(sp?)massacre, to disobey orders
that violated your morals, vows,  and beliefs.
You may be subject to punishment, but that is the way it is.
Better to lose a job than your soul.
The guy that is being burned is an Army Ranger, before he was a cop.
When you go in the military, you take an oath that doesn't have
a expiration date to uphold the Constitution.
I don't know what kind of oath Sworn cops take,
but obviously it is not to the ultimate law
of the land, the US Constitution.
Likely it is fealty to local Politics.

You are touching on a very interesting and complicated subject. Moral values and such oaths can be a hard thing to keep under various types of pressure in various situations and humans have a fairly poor record in upholding values they say they hold dear.  And on that, peer pressure is an amazingly frightening defeater of moral values.

I don't recall the numbers but I saw one study on cell phone usage while driving. Most people said it was wrong to do but most also admitted to doing it.

Both cops and soldiers take oaths to uphold the constitution of the united states and both will likely face situations where pressures will test those oaths. They may be fear, they may be political, they may be peer pressure, etc.

An oath by itself is really just words someone says, it is the character of the individual which will determine whether they uphold their oaths.

Not sure if any local of federal law enforcement or the military has any official IQ requirements, but I am sure all of those institutions want people who are obedient and do not question orders.

I have never heard of any though since there are thousands of law enforcement agencies around the country there may be some that do look at IQ scores. None of my friends in local police said they took one to get in. I am not even sure an IQ test would be all that helpful because cops require certain skillsets which aren't necessarily directly related to an IQ score.

Police officers are given some sort of personality profile to make sure that they are neither too aggressive nor too passive as each one comes with its own problems for the department and job that needs to be done.

Did any take a written test?  That score can be used to determine how smart a person is and is not an IQ test like you take in school.  When I applied to work at Hawaiian Airlines back in 1968, they gave me a written test, a physical and back xray.

Did any take a written test?  That score can be used to determine how smart a person is and is not an IQ test like you take in school.  When I applied to work at Hawaiian Airlines back in 1968, they gave me a written test, a physical and back xray.

The military requires everyone to take a series of aptitude tests, not intelligence tests.

Aptitude means you have the ability to learn certain basic skills that make you more likely to excel in one certain career paths or another.  The scores can be used to approve or reassign a recruit to either their preferred job or one that better suits them.

If you demonstrate knowledge/ability to quickly identify patterns, you could be good at intelligence analysis, computer science, or other technical fields that require that ability.  This is not only a test of basic education, but also a way to see if you can think to solve a problem.

The test the military administers is the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB).  It has 10 test areas:

- General Science - measures knowledge of life science, earth and space science, and physical science
- Arithmetic Reasoning - measures ability to solve basic arithmetic word problems
- Word Knowledge - measures ability to understand the meaning of words through synonyms
- Paragraph Comprehension - measures ability to obtain information from written material
- Mathematics Knowledge - measures knowledge of mathematical concepts and applications
- Electronics Information - measures knowledge of electrical current, circuits, devices and electronic systems
- Auto and Shop Information - measures knowledge of automotive maintenance and repair, and wood and metal shop practices
- Mechanical Comprehension - measures knowledge of the principles of mechanical devices, structural support and properties of materials
- Assembling Objects - measures ability with spatial relationships

I thought when I took it in high school the test was way easier than any tests I'd taken as a junior especially the SAT/PSAT.  I had the recruiters from every service calling me for an appointment with the exception of the Marines.  The Marine recruiter showed up on our doorstep in uniform with the enlistment papers all filled out!

So, the evidence is there.  The military doesn't look for and recruit low IQ drones who only know how to follow orders.  Why else would they look for people with problem-solving skills?

If you know anyone in the military, active duty or a veteran, it would be extremely insulting toward them to try and insinuate they were allowed in the service because they were of below-average intelligence.

Of course, if you already hate the military, nothing I write will change your opinion.

I have never heard of any though since there are thousands of law enforcement agencies around the country there may be some that do look at IQ scores. None of my friends in local police said they took one to get in. I am not even sure an IQ test would be all that helpful because cops require certain skillsets which aren't necessarily directly related to an IQ score.

Police officers are given some sort of personality profile to make sure that they are neither too aggressive nor too passive as each one comes with its own problems for the department and job that needs to be done.

you really think you are fooling people with this statement?

you really think you are fooling people with this statement?

It's a factual statement.  He just omitted "nor i" ...

you really think you are fooling people with this statement?

Is the HPD troll still trying to play innocent?

He has been transparent since he first showed up attempting to get posters to write something incriminating.

The military requires everyone to take a series of aptitude tests, not intelligence tests.

Aptitude means you have the ability to learn certain basic skills that make you more likely to excel in one certain career paths or another.  The scores can be used to approve or reassign a recruit to either their preferred job or one that better suits them.

If you demonstrate knowledge/ability to quickly identify patterns, you could be good at intelligence analysis, computer science, or other technical fields that require that ability.  This is not only a test of basic education, but also a way to see if you can think to solve a problem.

The test the military administers is the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB).  It has 10 test areas:

- General Science - measures knowledge of life science, earth and space science, and physical science
- Arithmetic Reasoning - measures ability to solve basic arithmetic word problems
- Word Knowledge - measures ability to understand the meaning of words through synonyms
- Paragraph Comprehension - measures ability to obtain information from written material
- Mathematics Knowledge - measures knowledge of mathematical concepts and applications
- Electronics Information - measures knowledge of electrical current, circuits, devices and electronic systems
- Auto and Shop Information - measures knowledge of automotive maintenance and repair, and wood and metal shop practices
- Mechanical Comprehension - measures knowledge of the principles of mechanical devices, structural support and properties of materials
- Assembling Objects - measures ability with spatial relationships

I thought when I took it in high school the test was way easier than any tests I'd taken as a junior especially the SAT/PSAT.  I had the recruiters from every service calling me for an appointment with the exception of the Marines.  The Marine recruiter showed up on our doorstep in uniform with the enlistment papers all filled out!

So, the evidence is there.  The military doesn't look for and recruit low IQ drones who only know how to follow orders.  Why else would they look for people with problem-solving skills?

If you know anyone in the military, active duty or a veteran, it would be extremely insulting toward them to try and insinuate they were allowed in the service because they were of below-average intelligence.

Of course, if you already hate the military, nothing I write will change your opinion.

I've told this story before
perhaps not here.
When I was graduating with a Degree in Computer Science
in 1990. The US Army tried to recruit me.
They did not know I had already spent over 5 years
in the USAF Vietnam era discharged as an E5 NCO.

They bugged me on the phone,
even sent me a T shirt.
I had a lot of fun with that Recruiter.
He did not have a clue.
I have a nephew who is a Sergent Major
This story causes him much laughter.

One thing I do know,
We dumped the draft because
the military can't run with the dregs of society.
These days they want and need the best.

I've told this story before
perhaps not here.
When I was graduating with a Degree in Computer Science
in 1990. The US Army tried to recruit me.
They did not know I had already spent over 5 years
in the USAF Vietnam era discharged as an E5 NCO.

They bugged me on the phone,
even sent me a T shirt.
I had a lot of fun with that Recruiter.
He did not have a clue.
I have a nephew who is a Sergent Major
This story causes him much laughter.

One thing I do know,
We dumped the draft because
the military can't run with the dregs of society.
These days they want and need the best.

All the recruiters wanted the same thing, including the Air Force:  Sign me up for delayed enlistment, so I could finish high school and then be put on active duty.  With my 4 years of Jr. ROTC, and the delayed enlistment waiting time, I was supposed to be an E-3 when graduating basic.

I told all the recruiters the same thing: I'm waiting to hear back about my AFROTC scholarship application.  Until then,. I'm not  about to sign a thing.  The AF recruiter tried to convince me I could delay enlist, and then they'd put me on deferral until I graduated from ROTC.  Somehow, that seemed like a typical recruiter promise that would only be honored if they felt like it.

Technically, I was enlisted in the reserves when I started college, as are all "contract cadets."  You have to sign a contract to (1) be on scholarship, or (2) enroll your Junior and Senior years into the ROTC program.  They have to pay to send cadets to Summer field training, flight school, etc.  They didn't want to do all that and have someone just walk away after graduating.  Had I failed to complete my degree or failed to live up to any other part of the contract, they could have forced me to finish out my 8-year reserve enlistment on active duty.

I worked with a Univ of New Mexico computer engineering grad who was a 2-stripe Airman.  Even though he graduated -- with the required degree and at the required time -- he'd dropped a class his last semester to work with a tech company (Harris, I believe) and earn some cash.  That dropped him down to less than full-time status, so the Commandant of Cadets revoked his commission and forced him into a 2-year enlistment.  He was the most knowledgeable member of our unit, and he even taught me C+ and Ultrix.  He SHOULD have been a 2LT, but that was not to be.  Needless to say, he was not going to re-up!     When he separated, he came to work for the same contractor I went to work for.

Something tells me, based on his attitude and arrogance, dropping down to part-time was just the last straw.  I totally believe he was a thorn in the side of the ROTC staff, and this was their "revenge."   

Anyway, the point is, once you sign on the dotted line, don't think you have any power over the service.  The agreement is only valid until the ink dries.  Then all bets are off!

All the recruiters wanted the same thing, including the Air Force:  Sign me up for delayed enlistment, so I could finish high school and then be put on active duty.  With my 4 years of Jr. ROTC, and the delayed enlistment waiting time, I was supposed to be an E-3 when graduating basic.

I told all the recruiters the same thing: I'm waiting to hear back about my AFROTC scholarship application.  Until then,. I'm not  about to sign a thing.  The AF recruiter tried to convince me I could delay enlist, and then they'd put me on deferral until I graduated from ROTC.  Somehow, that seemed like a typical recruiter promise that would only be honored if they felt like it.

Technically, I was enlisted in the reserves when I started college, as are all "contract cadets."  You have to sign a contract to (1) be on scholarship, or (2) enroll your Junior and Senior years into the ROTC program.  They have to pay to send cadets to Summer field training, flight school, etc.  They didn't want to do all that and have someone just walk away after graduating.  Had I failed to complete my degree or failed to live up to any other part of the contract, they could have forced me to finish out my 8-year reserve enlistment on active duty.

I worked with a Univ of New Mexico computer engineering grad who was a 2-stripe Airman.  Even though he graduated -- with the required degree and at the required time -- he'd dropped a class his last semester to work with a tech company (Harris, I believe) and earn some cash.  That dropped him down to less than full-time status, so the Commandant of Cadets revoked his commission and forced him into a 2-year enlistment.  He was the most knowledgeable member of our unit, and he even taught me C+ and Ultrix.  He SHOULD have been a 2LT, but that was not to be.  Needless to say, he was not going to re-up!     When he separated, he came to work for the same contractor I went to work for.

Something tells me, based on his attitude and arrogance, dropping down to part-time was just the last straw.  I totally believe he was a thorn in the side of the ROTC staff, and this was their "revenge."   

Anyway, the point is, once you sign on the dotted line, don't think you have any power over the service.  The agreement is only valid until the ink dries.  Then all bets are off!

I suppose we could trade lots
of "war stories"
The one guy that always
confused me was a Guy I worked
with who was an E3
and had a license to
practice law in Wisconsin.
Guy had a JD and passed
the bar exam!
As near as I could tell he didn't
want to be an officer.
Personally,
other than pay and perks.
I'd rather be an NCO
E-9 than an O-9.

I suppose we could trade lots
of "war stories"
The one guy that always
confused me was a Guy I worked
with who was an E3
and had a license to
practice law in Wisconsin.
Guy had a JD and passed
the bar exam!
As near as I could tell he didn't
want to be an officer.
Personally,
other than pay and perks.
I'd rather be an NCO
E-9 than an O-9.

It's possible he didn't want to spend his days defending or prosecuting the misfits of the military.  I bet the majority of cases are drug-related.

Did you find out why he was in the service?  Draft?  Maybe he just wanted to do his hitch and then start a law practice versus having a military career.

If he were to accept a regular commission, he'd be subject to recall as a reservist until the service decides they no longer need him.  Lots of possible factors in his decision.

I've told this story before
.....
They did not know I had already spent over 5 years
in the USAF Vietnam era discharged as an E5 NCO.

Probably related my fun with the draft board before.

Got out after four years, never was old enough to sign up for the draft.   Some told me I needed to sign up after i go out or it could mean trouble for any employer wanting a draft card for status.

So, I go to the nearest selective service office and wait.  Interview starts with me stating i heard i was supposed to sign up.

"How old are you?

21   Heads snap around peering at me.  "I been busy"

After a bit more fun, it came out where I had been and I got my 4A card.............

Also good to claim draft dodger status with the enlisting up before i was of draft age.