Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll (Read 10599 times)

QUIETShooter

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2020, 06:42:40 PM »
$1200 is not doable for me.
I would need to know who Mr. Ayoob is also, this would be a good start.

Masaad Ayoob can be found on a lot of You Tube videos on subjects like Firearms use, home defense, CCW, etc.  He is an all around expert in defensive use of firearms.  His resume is extensive and too numerous to mention.

And he's been around for a long, long, time.  In my younger years (in the early 80's) he was in every gun and rifle magazine around.  Harder nowadays because a lot of the retail outlets don't carry firearm magazines.  I remember working as a stock clerk at Foodland and I would go to the magazine rack on my breaks to read the gun magazines with him in it.

Do a search on Masaad Ayoob.  Lots of videos of him out there.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

TastesLikeMetal

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2020, 10:32:01 PM »
Masaad Ayoob can be found on a lot of You Tube videos on subjects like Firearms use, home defense, CCW, etc.  He is an all around expert in defensive use of firearms.  His resume is extensive and too numerous to mention.

And he's been around for a long, long, time.  In my younger years (in the early 80's) he was in every gun and rifle magazine around.  Harder nowadays because a lot of the retail outlets don't carry firearm magazines.  I remember working as a stock clerk at Foodland and I would go to the magazine rack on my breaks to read the gun magazines with him in it.

Do a search on Masaad Ayoob.  Lots of videos of him out there.
I've seen him through the years and know he has a lot of training in firearms, isn't he a former police officer?  I'm wondering about how he acquired his knowledge of the law, does he have a law background seeing as he's giving legal advise.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2020, 10:43:37 PM »
I've seen him through the years and know he has a lot of training in firearms, isn't he a former police officer?  I'm wondering about how he acquired his knowledge of the law, does he have a law background seeing as he's giving legal advise.

Quote
Massad F. Ayoob (born July 20, 1948) is an American firearms and self-defense instructor. He has taught police techniques
and civilian self-defense to both law enforcement officers and private citizens since 1974. He was the director of the Lethal
Force Institute in Concord, New Hampshire, from 1981 to 2009, and now operates his own company.[1] Ayoob has appeared
as an expert witness in several trials. He served as a part-time police officer in New Hampshire since 1972 and retired in 2017
with the rank of Captain from the Grantham, New Hampshire, police department.
...
While Ayoob has been in the courtroom as a testifying police officer, expert witness, and police prosecutor, he is not an attorney;
he is, however, a former Vice Chairman of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers
(NACDL), and is believed to be the only non-attorney ever to hold this position.[3][4] His course for attorneys, titled "The Management
of the Lethal Force/Deadly Weapons Case", was, according to Jeffrey Weiner: "the best course for everything you need to know but
are never taught in law school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2020, 10:44:18 PM »
He is definitely a living legend and part of me wants to do it just to get to meet him, but I am having difficulty making the connection of how taking this class would lead to CCW.

I have a list of goals myself and the firearms community has to meet in order to get CCW passed through the legislature.  One of them is  to get at least 5 knowledgeable and skilled constituents in each of the 51 districts.  So 255 total.  If Trump loses this election, then the legislature could be the only option for us for the next 10 to 20 years. We need a group of subject matter experts who have credibility and in-depth knowledge of self-defense and ability to analyze it to talk to lawmakers and the community.  Not just stuff you see on youtube or find in a Utah CCW class. The instructors can then teach others in the gun community through seminars and CCW classes so they are adequately knowledgeable and can talk to legislators too.

The other thing is the lack of legal training overall.  Every time a legal gun owner screws up, it gives the gun community a black eye.  Most gun owners just got a very minimal overview of self-defense laws if any.  How many people here have even read Hawaii's self-defense laws in the HRS or can even find them? 

QUIETShooter

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2020, 06:36:35 AM »
I've read the Hawaii self defense laws and would be interested in classes that discusses the laws, the implications, and different scenarios that can occur in Hawaii self-defense situations.

When it is written in lawyer-speak I have a hard time interpreting it and a seminar/class that puts the jargon into layman terms would be nice.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2020, 12:15:12 PM »
I've read the Hawaii self defense laws and would be interested in classes that discusses the laws, the implications, and different scenarios that can occur in Hawaii self-defense situations.

When it is written in lawyer-speak I have a hard time interpreting it and a seminar/class that puts the jargon into layman terms would be nice.

All you need to know, HPD has already given you:

Quote
Is defending your life really worth having to defend your decision in court and possibly lose everything you own?

Just get a big dog.
--paraphrased
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2020, 01:25:50 PM »
I think what would benefit this industry is some form of standard accreditation.
FM 7-8 tactics won't be convincing in a civilian court. I've watched some instructors with courses designed around that and called it self-defense.
Deeds Not Words

zippz

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2020, 05:12:22 PM »
Review of the most recent DFI class, the one our group was supposed to go:  https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/august-2020-presidents-message

drck1000

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2020, 04:38:32 PM »
$1200 for all classroom is a no for me.  When you mentioned in another thread, I thought maybe if it included live fire.  There were some good folks that I've seen articles about MA partnering up with for firearms instruction and that context got me interested.  Looking at it the course info closer, I can see value.  For something like this, I would think an online course would be more viable.  Greatly reduce cost, which I assume a good portion would be for travel, for all. 

zippz

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2020, 07:10:40 PM »
There's about a 50/50% chance the class will take place in Hawaii.  Mas has also agreed to hold a short seminar for law enforcement.

If you're strongly considering going, please comment.  I'll be contacting you to discuss the class.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2020, 09:42:11 PM »
For $1200 is he going to come and be an expert witness to testify on your behalf if you have to use lethal force to protect yourself?

zippz

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2020, 09:53:20 PM »
For $1200 is he going to come and be an expert witness to testify on your behalf if you have to use lethal force to protect yourself?

Yup, but it also includes any of his other self-defense courses too.  I don't think it covers while on LE duty though, I'm not sure.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2020, 10:03:20 PM »
For $1200 is he going to come and be an expert witness to testify on your behalf if you have to use lethal force to protect yourself?

This is a Deadly Force Instructor class.  You should be able to help prepare your own defense as well as call on other students to act as expert witnesses on your behalf.

This is not a real estate investment seminar where you get free notary services.   :wacko:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2020, 08:52:46 PM »
Yup, but it also includes any of his other self-defense courses too.  I don't think it covers while on LE duty though, I'm not sure.

I think one thing that might make a difference is how big of a class are we talking?  One instructor for 5 students and I think you are going to get a much better value than say 25 students to 1 instructor.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2020, 10:49:29 PM »
I think one thing that might make a difference is how big of a class are we talking?  One instructor for 5 students and I think you are going to get a much better value than say 25 students to 1 instructor.

Based on current gov't guidelines, 8 or fewer students.  That leaves room for the instructor and a classroom administrator.

10 people max.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2020, 01:01:30 AM »
I think one thing that might make a difference is how big of a class are we talking?  One instructor for 5 students and I think you are going to get a much better value than say 25 students to 1 instructor.
The attendee is going to get a better value based on number of class attendance?  ???

:

zippz

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2020, 08:34:56 AM »
I think one thing that might make a difference is how big of a class are we talking?  One instructor for 5 students and I think you are going to get a much better value than say 25 students to 1 instructor.


Looking at a class of between 15 to 20 locals and a bunch from the mainland for 2 instructors.  They just did a class in Arizona with 47 people last month, the one our group was supposed to attend if not for the quarantine, and it got good reviews.

A 1 to 5 ratio is not realistic unless you're thinking live-fire or other things that require a lot of supervision.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2020, 08:04:50 PM »

Looking at a class of between 15 to 20 locals and a bunch from the mainland for 2 instructors.  They just did a class in Arizona with 47 people last month, the one our group was supposed to attend if not for the quarantine, and it got good reviews.

A 1 to 5 ratio is not realistic unless you're thinking live-fire or other things that require a lot of supervision.

Optimistic about travel quarantines and restrictions on sizes of gatherings ending by then, are you?

 :thumbsup:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2020, 10:25:57 PM »
Optimistic about travel quarantines and restrictions on sizes of gatherings ending by then, are you?

 :thumbsup:

It is after the elections.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Masaad Ayoob DFI course poll
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2020, 11:33:51 PM »
It is after the elections.

And right in the middle of the "normal" flu season.      :shake:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw