Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight (Read 2845 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2020, 12:54:17 AM »
Brave people can't chase down a crazy gunmen who killed someone? Think a little more like a defense attorney for bicep guy, see how the defense attorney would try to present the actions of bicep guy. The defense doesn't have to be right the defense just has to make a juror question whether bicep guy was really the aggressor or a good samaritan instead. 

Running towards the threat doesn't prove one is not afraid by the way.

Kyle hadn't just killed someone.  He wasn't crazy.  And no, you don't have the authority under any law to chase down a suspect if he's running away.  That's clear letter law.  You can't be the aggressor, claim self defense, AND claim you were in danger.  Illogical to claim those facts can exist simultaneously.

I've seen nothing saying bicep guy was a Cop, a security guard or anything else that granted him law enforcement or public safety authority.

Unlike Cops, you have to wait until the assumed threat actually makes a move to harm you or someone else.  Kyle was defending himself.  He didn't initiate any attacks.

I never said he was afraid.  Being "in fear for you life" means you think someone is about to try and end you.  If he had that feeling, why did he attack Kyle and not just shoot him down?  That's the #1 way to prove you were in fear for your life.  If you don't shoot, or you fire a warning shot, you can't use that defense.

I was in fear for my life, so I ran after the guy carrying an AR-15 even though I never saw what people said he did.  Then I tried to take his gun from him.

Doesn't present a compelling defense at all.  He was part of the mob and armed.  He was role playing, and it got real for him.  He could have died.  Making like he was a victim isn't defensible.

You sound like the Barrister on Patriot Games, when Jack Ryan got a terrorist (Sean Bean) arrested after killing his brother during an attack on the Royals.  That lawyer also tried to claim Bean was like Ryan, an innocent passerby who was trying to help.  Just ignore that he had a gun in a country where you can't carry, and was wearing a ski mask just like the other terrorists.  He also happened to be the brother of a dead terrorist killed on the spot.

I'm sure the lawyer can claim anything they want.  What I'm telling you is there are more facts than just the highlights.  Details (and video) will show that bicep guy was not defending anyone, especially himself.
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

drck1000

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2020, 07:56:09 AM »
Ok, good to know because I haven't seen all of that footage. I do know that the in bed narrative was false, that has been out for a little while but as we all know the first and worst narrative is the one everyone seems to believe and the corrected info never gets the traction. Sometimes it is the media's fault like how they edited the 911 call of the Treyvon Martin shooting, other times it is just a liar who said something to the news and it stuck in society like the "hands up don't shoot" story.
That's precisely what I tell many who are "informed" about matters. 

changemyoil66

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2020, 12:03:50 PM »


I've seen nothing saying bicep guy was a Cop, a security guard or anything else that granted him law enforcement or public safety authority.



He is a convicted felon, so can't be a cop.  I do know of a security guard here who is a sex offender.  I mean not personally, but I seen his pic online and then seen him in uniform standing guard.

Bicep guy also had a medic hat on.  But yet no TQ on him because the guy who came to apply a TQ asked if anyone had one and he didn't.  It could be he was in shock and didn't say he had 1 in his bag, but I'm gonna say he was wearing that hat so he can get thru the cops line and claim medic. I'm also gonna speculate he has no official medical training.

drck1000

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2020, 12:10:02 PM »
He is a convicted felon, so can't be a cop.  I do know of a security guard here who is a sex offender.  I mean not personally, but I seen his pic online and then seen him in uniform standing guard.

Bicep guy also had a medic hat on.  But yet no TQ on him because the guy who came to apply a TQ asked if anyone had one and he didn't.  It could be he was in shock and didn't say he had 1 in his bag, but I'm gonna say he was wearing that hat so he can get thru the cops line and claim medic. I'm also gonna speculate he has no official medical training.
I've been seeing more morale/bag patches with stuff like:

#notarealmedic
#kindofamedic

Stuff like that making light of the medic thing. 

changemyoil66

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2020, 12:13:07 PM »
I've been seeing more morale/bag patches with stuff like:

#notarealmedic
#kindofamedic

Stuff like that making light of the medic thing.

someone holds market share of the #notarealdoctor patch

macsak

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2020, 12:17:13 PM »
someone holds market share of the #notarealdoctor patch

#heads

changemyoil66

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2020, 12:22:33 PM »
I've been seeing more morale/bag patches with stuff like:

#notarealmedic
#kindofamedic

Stuff like that making light of the medic thing.

I think Mojo Dave has the bicep guy patch.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2020, 12:23:52 PM »
I think Mojo Dave has the bicep guy patch.

If they are going to trademark a patch, they need to make it "No Bicep Guy".

Just sayin....   :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

drck1000

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2020, 12:24:55 PM »
If they are going to trademark a patch, they need to make it "No Bicep Guy".

Just sayin....   :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
#50%offbicepguy

#halfflexing

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2020, 01:01:49 PM »
#50%offbicepguy

#halfflexing

Bicep?

Nope.  Unicep.

Bye-Bye-Cep?
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2020, 10:02:32 PM »
Kyle hadn't just killed someone.  He wasn't crazy.  And no, you don't have the authority under any law to chase down a suspect if he's running away.  That's clear letter law.  You can't be the aggressor, claim self defense, AND claim you were in danger.  Illogical to claim those facts can exist simultaneously.

I've seen nothing saying bicep guy was a Cop, a security guard or anything else that granted him law enforcement or public safety authority.

Unlike Cops, you have to wait until the assumed threat actually makes a move to harm you or someone else.  Kyle was defending himself.  He didn't initiate any attacks.

I never said he was afraid.  Being "in fear for you life" means you think someone is about to try and end you.  If he had that feeling, why did he attack Kyle and not just shoot him down?  That's the #1 way to prove you were in fear for your life.  If you don't shoot, or you fire a warning shot, you can't use that defense.

I was in fear for my life, so I ran after the guy carrying an AR-15 even though I never saw what people said he did.  Then I tried to take his gun from him.

Doesn't present a compelling defense at all.  He was part of the mob and armed.  He was role playing, and it got real for him.  He could have died.  Making like he was a victim isn't defensible.

You sound like the Barrister on Patriot Games, when Jack Ryan got a terrorist (Sean Bean) arrested after killing his brother during an attack on the Royals.  That lawyer also tried to claim Bean was like Ryan, an innocent passerby who was trying to help.  Just ignore that he had a gun in a country where you can't carry, and was wearing a ski mask just like the other terrorists.  He also happened to be the brother of a dead terrorist killed on the spot.

I'm sure the lawyer can claim anything they want.  What I'm telling you is there are more facts than just the highlights.  Details (and video) will show that bicep guy was not defending anyone, especially himself.

Kyle had just killed someone a minute or two earlier.

Are you familiar with a citizens arrest? Unless you are familiar with some law in that state that makes it illegal for a citizen to try and detain a suspect then your objection doesn't matter.

I am aware of many of the video angles and bicep guy was no angel. Note that I am not arguing he was a good samaritan. I am saying a good samaritan defense would probably be his best defense. He can claim he didn't know Kyle was shooting in self defense, thought kyle was an active shooter, and heroically chased him down trying to disarm him to stop the bloodshed. Just has to work on one juror.

macsak

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2020, 10:27:44 PM »
Kyle had just killed someone a minute or two earlier.

Are you familiar with a citizens arrest? Unless you are familiar with some law in that state that makes it illegal for a citizen to try and detain a suspect then your objection doesn't matter.

I am aware of many of the video angles and bicep guy was no angel. Note that I am not arguing he was a good samaritan. I am saying a good samaritan defense would probably be his best defense. He can claim he didn't know Kyle was shooting in self defense, thought kyle was an active shooter, and heroically chased him down trying to disarm him to stop the bloodshed. Just has to work on one juror.

heh, heh you said bicep guy was trying to "disarm" kyle...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2020, 11:18:00 PM »
Kyle had just killed someone a minute or two earlier.

Are you familiar with a citizens arrest? Unless you are familiar with some law in that state that makes it illegal for a citizen to try and detain a suspect then your objection doesn't matter.

I am aware of many of the video angles and bicep guy was no angel. Note that I am not arguing he was a good samaritan. I am saying a good samaritan defense would probably be his best defense. He can claim he didn't know Kyle was shooting in self defense, thought kyle was an active shooter, and heroically chased him down trying to disarm him to stop the bloodshed. Just has to work on one juror.

I guess he'd be lucky to have someone who plays Devil's Advocate almost daily in his jury, huh?

No need to consider the evidence.  Just listen to the defendant's story and ask, "What if he's telling the truth, and all the video and witness evidence is just wrong?"

Yeah.  You convinced me.  There's a sucker born every day. 
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2020, 08:24:11 PM »
I guess he'd be lucky to have someone who plays Devil's Advocate almost daily in his jury, huh?

No need to consider the evidence.  Just listen to the defendant's story and ask, "What if he's telling the truth, and all the video and witness evidence is just wrong?"

Yeah.  You convinced me.  There's a sucker born every day.

I am not defending bicep guy and only pointing out how he may structure a hypothetical defense argument to a hypothetical weapons charge or other charge.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2020, 08:50:25 PM »
I am not defending bicep guy and only pointing out how he may structure a hypothetical defense argument to a hypothetical weapons charge or other charge.

Something tells me he's not going to be able to afford a defense lawyer with the talent and resources to tell such a fantastic-sounding story and have the jury believe it. 

Nope.  He's going to have a PD telling him to cut a deal rather than waste time in court getting a harsher sentence than a generous prosecutor could offer him.

Let's see who's right:  trial w/inventive defense theories, or plea deal.
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

changemyoil66

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2020, 12:08:24 PM »
Kyle was released on bond today.  This is awesome news.  But money says the left will find where he lives and "protest" there.  Hope he will be able to defend himself if he gets attacked again.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2020, 08:30:59 PM »
Something tells me he's not going to be able to afford a defense lawyer with the talent and resources to tell such a fantastic-sounding story and have the jury believe it. 

Nope.  He's going to have a PD telling him to cut a deal rather than waste time in court getting a harsher sentence than a generous prosecutor could offer him.

Let's see who's right:  trial w/inventive defense theories, or plea deal.

It doesn't take a genius high paid defense attorney to cast doubt on the case. Remember, he doesn't have to convince anyone the guy is innocent, they just have to bring into question whether the prosecutor's case might be wrong. So imagine a prosecutor was trying to prove that you had cocaine because cops found a bag of white powder in your pocket but they never got the powder tested. Now a jury might all agree the powder is cocaine and that you are guilty but there could still be reasonable doubt that it wasn't actually cocaine.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2020, 08:32:06 PM »
Kyle was released on bond today.  This is awesome news.  But money says the left will find where he lives and "protest" there.  Hope he will be able to defend himself if he gets attacked again.

I was glad to see that too. I was wanting to donate to his defense but many crowd sourcing websites took down donation pages

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2020, 08:46:20 PM »
It doesn't take a genius high paid defense attorney to cast doubt on the case. Remember, he doesn't have to convince anyone the guy is innocent, they just have to bring into question whether the prosecutor's case might be wrong. So imagine a prosecutor was trying to prove that you had cocaine because cops found a bag of white powder in your pocket but they never got the powder tested. Now a jury might all agree the powder is cocaine and that you are guilty but there could still be reasonable doubt that it wasn't actually cocaine.

You're really reaching for this one.  Here's what No-Bicep-Guy said on CNN:

Quote
Leave it to CNN to make Grosskreutz out to be the victim by calling him the “sole survivor.”

“I was shot point blank with a .223 round from the shooter,” Grosskreutz said. “And I am now
missing 90% of my bicep. This has not been easy emotionally, physically. I’m in constant pain,
like excruciating pain that just doesn’t go away — both in my arm, in my heart.”

Grosskreutz told CNN that he is not a felon and that he has a license to carry his firearm.

“I’m not a felon,” he said. “I have my concealed carry, I’ve had it for years.

That was my gun. My firearm.

I had a legal right to possess it and to possess it concealed.”

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/22-year-old-arm-partially-blown-off-pointing-pistol-17-year-old-kyle-rittenhouses-head-cries-victim-cnn/

Now will you stop with all the hypothetical "reasonable doubt", "doesn't take a genius high paid defense attorney to cast doubt on the case" bullshit?   :wacko: 

Or, you can keep on pretending the FACTS don't exist.
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2020, 08:59:57 PM »

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/22-year-old-arm-partially-blown-off-pointing-pistol-17-year-old-kyle-rittenhouses-head-cries-victim-cnn/

Now will you stop with all the hypothetical "reasonable doubt", "doesn't take a genius high paid defense attorney to cast doubt on the case" bullshit?   :wacko: 

Or, you can keep on pretending the FACTS don't exist.

I never pretended it didn't exist, I just didn't know he admitted to it.