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Ghost gun bill passes (Read 23024 times)

aieahound

Ghost gun bill passes
« on: September 08, 2020, 09:52:31 PM »
See Heavies Sept 15th thread above.

Does that mean if someone already possesses one they’re OK but can’t transfer And no one can acquire after Sept. 15th ?

§134-    Manufacturing, purchasing, or obtaining firearm parts to assemble a firearm having no serial number; penalty.  (a)  A person who is not licensed to manufacture a firearm under section 134-31, or who is not a dealer licensed by the United States Department of Justice, shall not, for the purpose of assembling a firearm, purchase, produce with a three-dimensional printer, or otherwise obtain separately, or as part of a kit:
     (1)  A firearm receiver that is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer;

     (2)  A firearm receiver that has not been provided a serial number that may be registered in accordance with section 134-3(c); or

     (3)  Any combination of parts from which a firearm having no serial number may be readily assembled; provided that the parts do not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless assembled.”

Does it mean we have to Register uppers acquired after Sept. 15th and engrave them with a serial number ? 
Can’t acquire an upper without a serial number ?

“  "Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism. 
“ If the firearm has been assembled from separate parts and an unfinished firearm receiver, the entity that registered the firearm receiver shall be recorded in the space provided for the name of the manufacturer and importer, and the phrase "assembled from parts" shall be recorded in the space provided for model. ”


How do you the get the registration number before the firearm is registered ?

“ If the firearm has no serial number, the registration number shall be entered in the space provided for the serial number, and the registration number shall be engraved upon the receiver portion of the firearm before registration.“

This is some dumb shit and confusing

Should I even be asking these questions ?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 10:20:14 PM by aieahound »
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Gunguy808

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2020, 10:27:17 PM »
So does that mean a stripped ar15 upper cant be bought without a serial number already on it
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Neesh

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2020, 09:18:13 AM »
All good questions....inquiring minds wanna know
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changemyoil66

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2020, 09:46:07 AM »
To me it sounds like as long as you have equal parts to make a firearm, you're OK.  So 2 barrels, 2 triggers, etc... you also need 2 registered receivers.  But if you have 2 of everything, and 1 reg receiver and 1 unregistered receiver, then you fall into #3 above.



That last part about housing components like the bolt. So they're combining an upper and lower together for an AR which need to be registered.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_PROPOSED_.HTM
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 10:00:57 AM by changemyoil66 »
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ren

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2020, 10:08:50 AM »
so this chunk of aluminum would need to be registered
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Deeds Not Words

aieahound

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2020, 10:46:01 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2020, 09:46:07 AM
To me it sounds like as long as you have equal parts to make a firearm, you're OK.  So 2 barrels, 2 triggers, etc... you also need 2 registered receivers.  But if you have 2 of everything, and 1 reg receiver and 1 unregistered receiver, then you fall into #3 above.

That last part about housing components like the bolt. So they're combining an upper and lower together for an AR which need to be registered.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_PROPOSED_.HTM

That’s the confusing parts.
What’s an unregistered receiver. A spare upper ?  (Under the new definition of receiver)
And upper and lower together?
If someone has .22 LR, 5.56, 7.62, 6.8 Uppers for one lower, are they all registered as the same firearm.
Caliber - Multiple?

Shits confusing.

Must engrave the registration number on it prior to registration. That’s just dumb.

And are 80’s grandfathered as it only references transfer, printing or acquiring ?
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changemyoil66

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2020, 11:29:15 AM »
Quote from: aieahound on September 09, 2020, 10:46:01 AM


And are 80’s grandfathered as it only references transfer, printing or acquiring ?

There is no grandfather clause
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changemyoil66

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2020, 11:31:16 AM »
  "Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism.  "Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."

The first part qualifies an AR upper received. But the 2nd sentence would make it not because the upper is not a frame of a firearm.  IDK if I'm reading it correctly.  So uppers might be OK.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2020, 11:35:51 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2020, 11:29:15 AM
There is no grandfather clause

The way I read it is you can keep the receiver blanks you have if you put a serial number on them & register them with HPD BEFORE milling them (kind of a waste of time if you screw it up and throw it away). 

Once the deadline passes, you can't have unserialized/unregistered "receiver parts" that can be used to make "ghost guns" -- i.e. firearms that don't have serial numbers and are unregistered.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I interpret it.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2020, 11:43:26 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 09, 2020, 11:35:51 AM
The way I read it is you can keep the receiver blanks you have if you put a serial number on them & register them with HPD BEFORE milling them (kind of a waste of time if you screw it up and throw it away). 

Once the deadline passes, you can't have unserialized/unregistered "receiver parts" that can be used to make "ghost guns" -- i.e. firearms that don't have serial numbers and are unregistered.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I interpret it.

I wonder since it's a long wait to register anything, does Kirks waiver also include the above?
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2020, 11:47:15 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2020, 11:43:26 AM
I wonder since it's a long wait to register anything, does Kirks waiver also include the above?

If you have an appointment, it establishes intent to register.  If no appointments are available, print out a screenshot as proof that you are actively trying.

Should not be a problem.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2020, 11:56:14 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 09, 2020, 11:47:15 AM
If you have an appointment, it establishes intent to register.  If no appointments are available, print out a screenshot as proof that you are actively trying.

Should not be a problem.

What are your thoughts about uppers that house the bolt?  Am I correct or wrong?
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stangzilla

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2020, 12:13:45 PM »
since an assembled upper doesn't have a serial number, this is now illegal?
its already assembled.  never had a serial number to begin with
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macsak

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2020, 12:15:53 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2020, 11:56:14 AM
What are your thoughts about uppers that house the bolt?  Am I correct or wrong?

wrong
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aaronc5362

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2020, 12:32:45 PM »
I think my friend has a glock conversion kit to shoot .22.

I guess that would apply too?
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2020, 02:26:03 PM »
Quote from: aaronc5362 on September 09, 2020, 12:32:45 PM
I think my friend has a glock conversion kit to shoot .22.

I guess that would apply too?

It should not. 

The receiver for a Glock is a single piece.  A conversion kit doesn't include the receiver/frame.

That's different than an AR with an upper and lower receiver.  An AR is where the confusion comes in, because lawmakers have no idea what they are doing.

ATF started the problem by defining a firearm receiver.  They didn't consider how that definition doesn't apply to an AR-style receiver.

So, a guy was arrested (in CA I think) for having receivers that he was not allowed to possess.  He argued that, by ATF definition, the lowers are not receivers.  He won the argument.

Now some states are trying to say the upper and lower receivers each count as receivers, because the ATF definition describes parts that are housed in both.  The more accurate approach would be to list the AR as an exception to the definition, so the lower is treated as the receiver, and the upper is not -- exactly as it has always been being treated.

Unfortunately, they decided to make the solution "bolt onto" the existing ATF definition instead of trying to get the ATF definition changed.  Idiots.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aieahound

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2020, 02:51:05 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2020, 11:29:15 AM
There is no grandfather clause

Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 09, 2020, 11:35:51 AM
The way I read it is you can keep the receiver blanks you have if you put a serial number on them & register them with HPD BEFORE milling them (kind of a waste of time if you screw it up and throw it away). 

Once the deadline passes, you can't have unserialized/unregistered "receiver parts" that can be used to make "ghost guns" -- i.e. firearms that don't have serial numbers and are unregistered.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I interpret it.

Where is the illegal to possess or possession of part ?

I’m sure it’s there but I couldn’t find it ( don’t have ctrl  F on my tablet )
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2020, 03:30:40 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on September 09, 2020, 02:51:05 PM
Where is the illegal to possess or possession of part ?

I’m sure it’s there but I couldn’t find it ( don’t have ctrl  F on my tablet )

Quote
     "§134-    Manufacturing, purchasing, or obtaining firearm parts to assemble a firearm having no serial number; penalty.  (a)  A person who is not licensed to manufacture a firearm under section 134-31, or who is not a dealer licensed by the United States Department of Justice, shall not, for the purpose of assembling a firearm, purchase, produce with a three-dimensional printer, or otherwise obtain separately, or as part of a kit:

     (1)  A firearm receiver that is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer;

     (2)  A firearm receiver that has not been provided a serial number that may be registered in accordance with section 134-3(c); or

     (3)  Any combination of parts from which a firearm having no serial number may be readily assembled; provided that the parts do not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless assembled.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aaronc5362

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2020, 05:33:06 PM »
So if i buy a complete rifle from a local gun store.

And it has the word "multi cal" and serial number on the lower. But the top has no serial number...

I cannot register it?
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ghost gun bill passes
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2020, 07:54:13 PM »
Quote from: aaronc5362 on September 09, 2020, 05:33:06 PM
So if i buy a complete rifle from a local gun store.

And it has the word "multi cal" and serial number on the lower. But the top has no serial number...

I cannot register it?

if you read the words, it says in essence if a gun manufactured by a federally licensed manufacturer or if sold by a federally licensed dealer, nothing has changed.  The firearm will be registered by the buyer in accordance with the (old) statute section 134-3(c). 

The new rules only apply if you are "assembling" (building) your firearm from parts you bought yourself -- in particular any that are required to have serial numbers but do not at time of purchase.  The confusion comes when store-bought AR receivers (not 80% blanks) are purchased and registered separate from an upper receiver, as the new definition appears to include the upper in the definition of "receiver" now.

Someone is going to have to sue the state to get a ruling on the exact application of the new statute.

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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