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Has anyone ever wondered... (Read 12799 times)

aieahound

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2020, 09:12:24 AM »
One thing we know for sure.
5.56 can take off a bicep at close range.
And a shot to the chest appears pretty lethal.



Still want a short cased, high pressure, mag compatible with standard lower .243 for an AR though.
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GlockNewb

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2020, 10:04:07 AM »
Quote from: aieahound on September 23, 2020, 09:12:24 AM
One thing we know for sure.
5.56 can take off a bicep at close range.
And a shot to the chest appears pretty lethal.



Still want a short cased, high pressure, mag compatible with standard lower .243 for an AR though.

Ah, some real-world evidence of what some Speer/CCI reps said a while back —>



Most of the conversation is about pistols, but it comes down to human elasticity, I.e. the human body can’t cope with the force of a 55gr projectile traveling 2-3x the speed of sound.
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"Fast is slow, slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

tim808

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2020, 12:57:28 PM »
Hound
Whats the 243 ar for?  6.5 Grendel can do a lot

Like 7.62x39 in close and can shoot far accurately.
And already have cheap wolf too.   (Not that I would use wolf in a grendel)

I have ar’s but I’m not a real fan of it for hunting (my wife’s says wandering cluelessly in regards to me) even though grendel is pretty decent.  I only think about using one if I may come across poachers
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2020, 01:03:28 PM »
Quote from: tim808 on September 23, 2020, 12:57:28 PM
Hound
Whats the 243 ar for?  6.5 Grendel can do a lot

Like 7.62x39 in close and can shoot far accurately.
And already have cheap wolf too.   (Not that I would use wolf in a grendel)

I have ar’s but I’m not a real fan of it for hunting (my wife’s says wandering cluelessly in regards to me) even though grendel is pretty decent.  I only think about using one if I may come across poachers

As mentioned in the Wiki descriptions, the .223 was developed as a varmint hunting round.  So, it really depends on what you're hunting as to whether an AR-15 is suitable for "hunting".  For bird hunting, a shotgun is preferred,  For deer, a larger caliber than .223 is not only better, but required by law in some states.  For hunting moose or elk, forget it.

But if you live on a large farm and need to control the fox, wolf, gopher and rabbit populations that can ruin crops and steal chickens, it's absolutely the ideal platform for that application.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

tim808

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2020, 01:38:33 PM »
I read larue or one of his kids took down an elk or something with 6.5 Grendel at like 400yards or something

Ar in the other calibers are workable but I prefer 6.5 creedmoor or bigger.  (Even though I’m just wandering around lost and can’t see poop even when Gunguy808 is pointing it out to me)
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aieahound

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2020, 02:50:08 PM »
Seems like a .243 at 90 to 100 Grains could be pushed a little faster with less recoil.
Right between 6mm and 6.5.

6.5 Grendel is pretty interesting though.
I thought the ammo would be scarce.

And I love the .243 in my bolt gun. (Totally different case though, I know)
NoScade doesn’t recommend .243 for deer here unless you like to track a little bit.

Haven’t seen any elk or moose yet in Hawaii, but I’ll keep looking.
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groveler

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2020, 04:05:35 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on September 23, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Seems like a .243 at 90 to 100 Grains could be pushed a little faster with less recoil.
Right between 6mm and 6.5.

6.5 Grendel is pretty interesting though.
I thought the ammo would be scarce.

And I love the .243 in my bolt gun. (Totally different case though, I know)
NoScade doesn’t recommend .243 for deer here unless you like to track a little bit.

Haven’t seen any elk or moose yet in Hawaii, but I’ll keep looking.
"Haven’t seen any elk or moose yet in Hawaii"
I'd sure be happy if someone would dump some elk on Mauna Kea.
and some moose in Waikoekoe.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2020, 04:30:16 PM »
Quote from: groveler on September 23, 2020, 04:05:35 PM
"Haven’t seen any elk or moose yet in Hawaii"
I'd sure be happy if someone would dump some elk on Mauna Kea.
and some moose in Waikoekoe.

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

tim808

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2020, 10:25:41 PM »
Hound
Looking for something softer shooting than the 7.62x39 upper?

There is 105 and 110 gr 6.5 Grendel ammo
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omnigun

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2020, 06:36:03 AM »
Anyone have input on 450 bushmaster vs 6.5 Grendel? I ended up deciding bushmaster cause it should have more stopping power and take bigger game.  And it's not like I need distance.
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drck1000

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2020, 09:29:58 AM »
Quote from: aieahound on September 23, 2020, 02:50:08 PM

Haven’t seen any elk or moose yet in Hawaii, but I’ll keep looking.
The last one I saw was rusty looking color up on the hill at Koko Head.  I was sad when that HK anti-gun nut had that majestic creature removed.   :(
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aieahound

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2020, 11:09:35 AM »
Oh shit !
Now I do remember seeing one.
Thing must have been shot over a Thousand times and Was still standing.

 I guess the anti-gunners, led by Knutsen, killed it.
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ren

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2020, 11:19:54 AM »
Quote from: aieahound on September 24, 2020, 11:09:35 AM
Oh shit !
Now I do remember seeing one.
Thing must have been shot over a Thousand times and Was still standing.

 I guess the anti-gunners, led by Knutsen, killed it.

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Deeds Not Words

tim808

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2020, 11:25:20 AM »
Gunguy808 has 50 Beowulf - which is similar to the 450.  He likes it for pig hunting.  Good for shooting thru brush.

I think that the lone star boars guy likes it too.  Your good!!

I’m interested in the 6.5 Grendel after reading this piece
https://www.chuckhawks.com/modern_sporting_rifle.html

6.5 sounds like it is pretty decent round for close to medium range (250-275 yards) and accurate for long range target shooting.   That said I have all the parts in hand to build an upper and the ammo for a couple of months but haven’t gotten the urge to build the upper since I think 7.62x39 is similar enough to use for wandering aimlessly in the bushes on Oahu

6.5 cm is what I like for hunting (bolt gun seems lighter than an Ar) and for what I use at the range to shoot sub moa.   My tikka with cheap hunting ammo easily shoots 3/4 moa for 3 shot groups and I’m a poop shooter.

I’m hoping the 556 upper I built will do sub moa.
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Heavies

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2020, 09:18:41 PM »
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Heavies

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2020, 09:22:57 PM »
Quote from: tim808 on September 24, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
Gunguy808 has 50 Beowulf - which is similar to the 450.  He likes it for pig hunting.  Good for shooting thru brush.

I think that the lone star boars guy likes it too.  Your good!!

I’m interested in the 6.5 Grendel after reading this piece
https://www.chuckhawks.com/modern_sporting_rifle.html

6.5 sounds like it is pretty decent round for close to medium range (250-275 yards) and accurate for long range target shooting.   That said I have all the parts in hand to build an upper and the ammo for a couple of months but haven’t gotten the urge to build the upper since I think 7.62x39 is similar enough to use for wandering aimlessly in the bushes on Oahu

6.5 cm is what I like for hunting (bolt gun seems lighter than an Ar) and for what I use at the range to shoot sub moa.   My tikka with cheap hunting ammo easily shoots 3/4 moa for 3 shot groups and I’m a poop shooter.

I’m hoping the 556 upper I built will do sub moa.
I like the grendel,  one has to be careful with finding and using a quality bolt.  When I build mine everything worked wonderful and pretty dang accurate,  however, after about 100 rounds, the extractor broke. 

Seems to be one of the issues with this cartridge,  reason being the diameter of the case base, and consequently the larger diameter of the bolt face.  This really thins out the extractor.   
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tim808

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2020, 09:52:48 PM »
Heavies,
Does the make of 6.5 Grendel bolt make a big difference?
(I bought 2 bolts.  I think one is a toolcraft and the other is JP)

Using an adjustable gas block? I’m thinking using one will minimize wear/tear

Barrel length and gas system? I’m thinking a longer barrel and longer gas system used with the agb will further minimize wear/tear

I am not a sme and likely talking out of my okole
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Heavies

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2020, 11:11:41 PM »
Quote from: tim808 on September 24, 2020, 09:52:48 PM
Heavies,
Does the make of 6.5 Grendel bolt make a big difference?
(I bought 2 bolts.  I think one is a toolcraft and the other is JP)

Using an adjustable gas block? I’m thinking using one will minimize wear/tear

Barrel length and gas system? I’m thinking a longer barrel and longer gas system used with the agb will further minimize wear/tear

I am not a sme and likely talking out of my okole

It's more that the extractor has to be cut very thin.  5.56 case head is .378, 6.5 Grendel is .445, a difference of .067.  This means the extractor metal has to be cut that much thinner.  If you compare the two bolts together, you'll see how much meat has been removed to accommodate the larger case diameter.   Any flaw in the metal will fail that much easier.   

The first bolt that failed was included with the BA arms barrel I purchased.  They eventually sent me a new one, which was backordered, so in the meantime I ordered from the original Grendel maker Anderson (pardon error) Alexander Arms. 

That bolt seems to be doing fine, but haven't got to shoot it too much since the lockdowns have hampered range use. It has more rounds on it than the first bolt though..

I'm running a 16" and mid gas, with non adj gas block. 3 o'clock ejection pattern looks like bolt is running at normal operating speeds.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 06:52:08 AM by Heavies »
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aaronc5362

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2020, 07:04:31 AM »
Ohhh i wanna add my 2 cents. Lol

Idk what a 6.5 grendel bolt looks like but imma assume its like how they make x39 bolts for ar15s. Im only gonna assume that cause the larger diameter bolt face is how you described it.

I bought lmt's x39 bolts, and cason engineering. Lmt are made of aeremt100 steel. Same used on f18 landing gears. Talked to customer service and tech support. Cason engineering used 17-4 or 17-7 steel. I forget but both used nickel boron coating.

The type of metal with the additional coating will nakenit structurally stronger immensely. But you will always pay the price for it. Both never broke on me. Regular gas block, both middy gas system. Both i used rifle buffer tubes with 1 buffer at 6.05 oz. And the other 5.8 oz. Prob shot softer than my old 6.8 and colt 6920. 😁
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tim808

Re: Has anyone ever wondered...
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2020, 07:29:55 AM »
Heavies,
Sounds like your grendel is gassed right.

I’m crossing my fingers on mine.

I picked up a 20 or 22 barrel that I believe is rifle gas - I’m hoping the longer dwell time(?) reduces the chamber pressure enough to help longevity. 

Oh well, will see if I over thought or wrongly thought it thru.....and overspent with little or no gains :-)

Aaron,
Good info to know!  For my x39, I only used my regular 5.56 lower.  I thought I read that for x39 and 6.5, a carbine tube, spring and buffer were ok.   I better go back and read more about x39 and Grendel.

I already bought my bolts but I’ll tell my friends to look into the Cason and LMT bolts

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