My friend is an electrical engineer.  Made big bucks, but lived at home for 5 years.  No kids, no gf.  Paid cash for a condo.  He even drove his parents car to work because they both worked in downtown which has no parking.

As for us, we paid rent, but cheaper than normal because family owned the apartment.  Then got help with half the down payment for our condo from my parents (5% of 10%).  It was either help with the partial down payment or they pay for our wedding.  We chose the down payment. But it did take lots of convincing for Mrs. CMO to be on board.  She wanted a huge wedding.  We then had a very cheap, but good wedding and was a few hundred dollars below our budget.  We then bought an affordable program condo.

So there are many options besides just inheriting a home.  They key is saving for that down payment.  We were lucky that for the affordable program, they only require a 10% down since we're first time home buyers and own no other properties.  If we had to come up with a 20 or 30% down, forget it.  Moving would have more points added to that side.

I've had friends deploy and had $50K in their bank  waiting for them when they came home.  I told them to use it for a down payment.  Some listened, others bought a new car and stereo system.  Fast forward 6 years and the ones who bought a car still live at home with parents.

But also, no one needs to buy a home.  Nothing wrong with paying rent.  TBH, our mortgage is way more than what our rent was and add in the maintenance fee on top of that.  If we stayed as renters, we could buy way more stuff.  I would probably have a Barrett 50 cal by now.

My friend is an electrical engineer.  Made big bucks, but lived at home for 5 years.  No kids, no gf.  Paid cash for a condo.  He even drove his parents car to work because they both worked in downtown which has no parking.

As for us, we paid rent, but cheaper than normal because family owned the apartment.  Then got help with half the down payment for our condo from my parents (5% of 10%).  It was either help with the partial down payment or they pay for our wedding.  We chose the down payment. But it did take lots of convincing for Mrs. CMO to be on board.  She wanted a huge wedding.  We then had a very cheap, but good wedding and was a few hundred dollars below our budget.  We then bought an affordable program condo.

So there are many options besides just inheriting a home.  They key is saving for that down payment.  We were lucky that for the affordable program, they only require a 10% down since we're first time home buyers and own no other properties.  If we had to come up with a 20 or 30% down, forget it.  Moving would have more points added to that side.

I've had friends deploy and had $50K in their bank  waiting for them when they came home.  I told them to use it for a down payment.  Some listened, others bought a new car and stereo system.  Fast forward 6 years and the ones who bought a car still live at home with parents.

But also, no one needs to buy a home.  Nothing wrong with paying rent.  TBH, our mortgage is way more than what our rent was and add in the maintenance fee on top of that.  If we stayed as renters, we could buy way more stuff.  I would probably have a Barrett 50 cal by now.

Smart,  I told my GF that we should have a cheap wedding too.  Save the money for the house.  Ideally I would like to have enough to buy the house and keep the condo to have someone else pay my mortgage.  But thats a bit of a stretch. 

That's where I'm at. You know what would make things really really really, like REALLY easier to live here? If you aren't physically handicapped don't use the handicap stall.
My dad's in a wheelchair - disabled. It's rare that I find a stall close to the grocery store so I don't have to wheel him from across the parking lot and across lanes of traffic.

Mrs. CMO had foot surgery for Plantar Fasciatus.  Her doc gave her a note and we went and got a HC card.  We used it once.  I felt guilty after that 1 time and never used it again.  I told her to let others who are in more need use the stall.  She can crutch just fine, it just takes more time due to moving slower.

While at satellite city hall, had another guy with a heart condition who cannot walk far and get his heart beat too fast.  He told us to make sure we keep the little card in our wallet because people do challenge you, even though you have the plaque on the mirror.

Smart,  I told my GF that we should have a cheap wedding too. 

GF, not fiance?

Luckily, we were not gun owners when we got money.  So less gun community asshole friends  to invite to the wedding.  We actually made money on our wedding.  So with the small leftovers, is when we got the VP9, AR, safe, some mags, and ammo.

My friend is an electrical engineer.  Made big bucks, but lived at home for 5 years.  No kids, no gf.  Paid cash for a condo.  He even drove his parents car to work because they both worked in downtown which has no parking.

As for us, we paid rent, but cheaper than normal because family owned the apartment.  Then got help with half the down payment for our condo from my parents (5% of 10%).  It was either help with the partial down payment or they pay for our wedding.  We chose the down payment. But it did take lots of convincing for Mrs. CMO to be on board.  She wanted a huge wedding.  We then had a very cheap, but good wedding and was a few hundred dollars below our budget.  We then bought an affordable program condo.

So there are many options besides just inheriting a home.  They key is saving for that down payment.  We were lucky that for the affordable program, they only require a 10% down since we're first time home buyers and own no other properties.  If we had to come up with a 20 or 30% down, forget it.  Moving would have more points added to that side.

I've had friends deploy and had $50K in their bank  waiting for them when they came home.  I told them to use it for a down payment.  Some listened, others bought a new car and stereo system.  Fast forward 6 years and the ones who bought a car still live at home with parents.

But also, no one needs to buy a home.  Nothing wrong with paying rent.  TBH, our mortgage is way more than what our rent was and add in the maintenance fee on top of that.  If we stayed as renters, we could buy way more stuff.  I would probably have a Barrett 50 cal by now.

The 2 main financial benefits of owning vs renting are mortgage interest deductions and increasing equity.  Even with the housing crisis in 2007-2008, the low interest rates still make buying a good deal if you can work out the monthly cash flow.  At the end of the year, I get a good size income tax return instead of paying more thanks to the deduction.

I still own the first home I bought in Virginia.  As a rental, not only do I have the renters paying my mortgage, I also get to claim deductions for depreciation, operating expenses, maintenance and repairs, and property management fees -- all on top of the mortgage interest.

If things here get too difficult, that home will be paid off free and clear.  I can sell it, take out a loan, kick out the renters and live mortgage-free, .....

Options are good.

SNIP

But also, no one needs to buy a home.  Nothing wrong with paying rent.  TBH, our mortgage is way more than what our rent was and add in the maintenance fee on top of that.  If we stayed as renters, we could buy way more stuff.  I would probably have a Barrett 50 cal by now.

Barrett > Condo

Cool 

:facepalm:

I used to debate abortion on a forum much like this one. It is a very complex issues with many layers of arguments and counter arguments.

Ultimately the two sides both produce a few arguments that come down to a bit of a stale mate. Personally I lean towards pro-life but not sure how much legal restriction I would impose.

Legally it is quite an interesting battle as well. It is rather ironic that conservatives are generally more on the left given that banning abortion is bigger government and more control over freedoms.

I used to debate abortion on a forum much like this one. It is a very complex issues with many layers of arguments and counter arguments.

Ultimately the two sides both produce a few arguments that come down to a bit of a stale mate. Personally I lean towards pro-life but not sure how much legal restriction I would impose.

Legally it is quite an interesting battle as well. It is rather ironic that conservatives are generally more on the left given that banning abortion is bigger government and more control over freedoms.

Yeah the whole don't control muh guns,  but control dem women's bodies argument.  States rights for abortions but not for guns.  Religious freedoms but then hate on people who dont believe.   

I used to debate abortion on a forum much like this one. It is a very complex issues with many layers of arguments and counter arguments.

Ultimately the two sides both produce a few arguments that come down to a bit of a stale mate. Personally I lean towards pro-life but not sure how much legal restriction I would impose.

Legally it is quite an interesting battle as well. It is rather ironic that conservatives are generally more on the left given that banning abortion is bigger government and more control over freedoms.

Control is warranted whenever there is a victim being deprived of their right to life.

It's one thing government has a duty to do:  protect the weakest among us. 

There's nothing hypocritical in that/.  It's not the same as, say, government controlled healthcare.

Control is warranted whenever there is a victim being deprived of their right to life.

It's one thing government has a duty to do:  protect the weakest among us. 

There's nothing hypocritical in that/.  It's not the same as, say, government controlled healthcare.

Not hypocritical, only that it is more government control, not less. Abortion really isn't an issue tied to the left or right side of a political spectrum, it just happens than in America, people on the right also happen to be more pro-life.

The stale mate from the two competing arguments exists in where we both value protection of an innocent life while also valuing freedom slavery. No, slavery is not a perfect analogy to pregnancy but is about as close an analogy as one can use for an unwanted pregnancy.

Yeah the whole don't control muh guns,  but control dem women's bodies argument.  States rights for abortions but not for guns.  Religious freedoms but then hate on people who dont believe.

Personally I leave religion out of the abortion debate. People routinely frame it as religious control over people's life however being religious does not mean one is pro-life and likewise being atheist doesn't mean one has to be pro-choice. If a non-religious person comes to the conclusion that abortion is wrong then it cannot be said they are enforcing a religious belief on others. If you remove religion from the equation, you defeat one of the main arguments presented by the pro-choice crowd.

Not hypocritical, only that it is more government control, not less. Abortion really isn't an issue tied to the left or right side of a political spectrum, it just happens than in America, people on the right also happen to be more pro-life.

The stale mate from the two competing arguments exists in where we both value protection of an innocent life while also valuing freedom slavery. No, slavery is not a perfect analogy to pregnancy but is about as close an analogy as one can use for an unwanted pregnancy.

You seem to be more stuck on the phrase "government control" when we are really talking about "government protection."

When the police arrive on the scene and stop a robbery or rape, do you cry about "government control" of the people they arrest?

You seem to be more stuck on the phrase "government control" when we are really talking about "government protection."

When the police arrive on the scene and stop a robbery or rape, do you cry about "government control" of the people they arrest?

One man's protection is another man's control.

Rape is obviously a poor analogy because someone is committing a crime, they are doing something wrong that is entirely within their control. The rapist has forfeited their right to not be harmed. Such is not the situation with a pregnancy.

The closest analogy I could come up with would be a man in a medical situation where another person's life depending on their own sacrifice. Imagine you were on a hospital bed giving a transfusion to another person who was losing blood. Their life directly depends on you staying there to provide blood. Should you have the freedom to get up from the bed and leave even if it means the man in need of the blood transfusion would die? Or is he a victim being deprived of the right to life? Now switch positions, instead of the blood donor you are the doctor and the patient says they are leaving. Do you strap the donor down to save the life of the donee?

One man's protection is another man's control.

Rape is obviously a poor analogy because someone is committing a crime, they are doing something wrong that is entirely within their control. The rapist has forfeited their right to not be harmed. Such is not the situation with a pregnancy.

And if someone is performing a partial birth abortion, I would argue they, too, are committing a crime -- whether the law recognizes it as such or not.

Just because an act is lawful doesn't mean it's not a crime.

Crime --noun  "a grave offense especially against morality"

One man's protection is another man's control.

Rape is obviously a poor analogy because someone is committing a crime, they are doing something wrong that is entirely within their control. The rapist has forfeited their right to not be harmed. Such is not the situation with a pregnancy.

The closest analogy I could come up with would be a man in a medical situation where another person's life depending on their own sacrifice. Imagine you were on a hospital bed giving a transfusion to another person who was losing blood. Their life directly depends on you staying there to provide blood. Should you have the freedom to get up from the bed and leave even if it means the man in need of the blood transfusion would die? Or is he a victim being deprived of the right to life? Now switch positions, instead of the blood donor you are the doctor and the patient says they are leaving. Do you strap the donor down to save the life of the donee?

Yeah, I think this analogy works.   Though since I don't believe its a person its more akin to just forcing people to donate blood. 

And if someone is performing a partial birth abortion, I would argue they, too, are committing a crime -- whether the law recognizes it as such or not.

Just because an act is lawful doesn't mean it's not a crime.

Crime --noun  "a grave offense especially against morality"

You know that's really rare right? Most abortions occur early on....mostly only ones that happen late are because they find defects or something.  Stop twisting facts to gain sympathy. 

debating abortion on a 2a forum is dumb

debating abortion on a 2a forum is dumb

Why?  There's no reason why you cant both support guns and abortion.  Technically they should be intertwined.  Both is freedom of choice, just like speech.

Why?  There's no reason why you cant both support guns and abortion.  Technically they should be intertwined.  Both is freedom of choice, just like speech.

I don't agree with your opinion.

debating abortion on a 2a forum is dumb

This site has become infested with three clowns that clearly are here to argue.   For political animosity, spite, subterfuge, or to try and bolster self esteem by taking on those with some knowledge.