We're no. 1! (Read 558 times)

obm

We're no. 1!
« on: October 17, 2020, 01:27:10 PM »
Top Ten Worst States for Gun Owners To Live 2020

Lucky we live Hawaii...



mrgaf

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2020, 02:08:40 PM »
Yay! Aren’t we the lucky ones!  :grrr:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

oldfart

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2020, 02:21:04 PM »
woohoo!

What, Me Worry?

groveler

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2020, 02:36:26 PM »
Yeah but we are only #10 here.

https://sellingthesecondamendment.com/states-with-most-guns-per-capita/

Notice what is wrong with that picture?
Anecdotally,  I'm very sure less than 20%
of Hawaiian guns are registered.
Not me of course, I never violate any constitutional
Federal, state , or local laws.
I also have a well known inability to remember names.


RSN172

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2020, 02:58:24 PM »
Yeah but we are only #10 here.

https://sellingthesecondamendment.com/states-with-most-guns-per-capita/

Notice what is wrong with that picture?
Anecdotally,  I'm very sure less than 20%
of Hawaiian guns are registered.
Not me of course, I never violate any constitutional
Federal, state , or local laws.
I also have a well known inability to remember names.
#MeToo
The key word is constitutional.

omnigun

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 02:59:14 PM »
Yeah but we are only #10 here.

https://sellingthesecondamendment.com/states-with-most-guns-per-capita/

Notice what is wrong with that picture?
Anecdotally,  I'm very sure less than 20%
of Hawaiian guns are registered.
Not me of course, I never violate any constitutional
Federal, state , or local laws.
I also have a well known inability to remember names.

I doubt this.  The last many many years its been a requirement.  Sneaking guns into Hawaii is difficult.  Sales have exploded.  I doubt its anywhere near 20%.

ren

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 03:06:57 PM »
I doubt this.  The last many many years its been a requirement.  Sneaking guns into Hawaii is difficult.  Sales have exploded.  I doubt its anywhere near 20%.

based on what data?

omnigun

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2020, 03:08:35 PM »
based on what data?

Did you even open the link?

Hawaii is a surprising entry, considering all their anti-gun laws, but it turns out they have a population of 1.42 million (2018), and “gun ownership has grown by 300 percent in the last 15 years with more than 400,000 guns registered in Hawaii.”
Source: Are There More Guns Than People In Hawaii

Flapp_Jackson

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2020, 03:13:29 PM »
Did you even open the link?

Hawaii is a surprising entry, considering all their anti-gun laws, but it turns out they have a population of 1.42 million (2018), and “gun ownership has grown by 300 percent in the last 15 years with more than 400,000 guns registered in Hawaii.”
Source: Are There More Guns Than People In Hawaii

Are there any stats on the number of guns possessed by criminals who don't register?

Did you know someone prohibited from possessing firearms cannot be charged for failing to register his firearms?

Search phrase: "hawaii man charged with unregistered firearm"

Results:
https://tinyurl.com/y22ukml7
"That's what laws are for...  If the right people don't break 'em, they're of no use whatsoever.""

QUIETShooter

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2020, 04:15:28 PM »
Yeah but we are only #10 here.

https://sellingthesecondamendment.com/states-with-most-guns-per-capita/

Notice what is wrong with that picture?
Anecdotally,  I'm very sure less than 20%
of Hawaiian guns are registered.
Not me of course, I never violate any constitutional
Federal, state , or local laws.
I also have a well known inability to remember names.

I doubt this.  The last many many years its been a requirement.  Sneaking guns into Hawaii is difficult.  Sales have exploded.  I doubt its anywhere near 20%.

I don't doubt it.  There were a lot of guns owned by Hawaii people prior to requirement to register firearms.  Lots of firearms already owned before that stupid 1994 or whenever law was put in effect.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 04:27:05 PM by QUIETShooter »
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

obm

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2020, 04:45:30 PM »
"...with more than 400,000 guns registered in Hawaii.”
Source: Are There More Guns Than People In Hawaii



Hawaii has an artificially high number of guns because currently there is no facility/process to unregister guns in the Hawaii gun database.  Thousands of military come into Hawaii who are required to register their guns when they get stationed here.  When they leave the islands the guns are still registered in the database.  Same with all the Hawaii people who moved to the Mainland because of the high cost of living...their guns are still registered here even though they no longer live here.  If you sell your gun thru gunbroker or similar site to someone on the Mainland, same thing...the gun stays registered to you even if you notify HPD that you sold it to someone on the Mainland.  I used to send a letter to HPD with gun transfer information(which mainland FFL I sent it to) until one day I got a call from a lady at HPD telling me not to send gun transfer information for guns I sold to the Mainland.  She told me they don't unregister guns that get sold to someone on the Mainland, they just shred these notifications if the gun goes to the Mainland.  I asked if she could document this policy on HPD letterhead and send it to me, but she refused.  So I have a bunch of guns I no longer own still registered to me. 

This changes with this year's legislation that was passed that requires you to notify the gov't when a gun leaves Hawaii.   The original bill criminalized not making the notification, however,  the legislators got feedback from people(like me)  who complained  that we no longer have guns that were sold to mainland buyers that are still registered in the database.  The legislators were nice enough to change the bill so it's not a criminal offense now, but instead they will fine me $200 per firearm(how nice of them!) for every gun I sold to a mainland buyer that I did not notify the govt about...of course, I did notify HPD, but they shredded those documents.  I emailed my senator Brian Taniguchi about this and he couldn't believe it was HPD policy to shred those documents.  He told me I needed to contact the legislators in the Judiciary committee since they are responsible for that bill...which I did...no one replied back to me.  Taniguchi is not gun friendly, however, he's the only legislator who responded back personally, assigned an aide to do some research and confirmed that the bill was amended not to criminalize non-notification.  I even told him that HPD doesn't allow you to update your gun registrations when you move.  When I bought my first condo, I went down to HPD to change my address on my gun registrations.  They refused to update my records and told me not to worry about it.  WTF?  This a government gun registry and they don't think it's important to document where the guns are actually located?

The state is going to get a huge financial windfall for fining the tens(if not hundreds) of thousands people $200 per firearm who left Hawaii with their guns and did not notify the govt.  I think this is how they plan to tackle the state's current budget deficit.

But anyways...this is why we have an artificially high gun count in Hawaii...


robtmc

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 05:40:24 PM »
based on what data?
Ignorant kid frantically poking at his iPhag to find info to continue arguing.....AGAIN

robtmc

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2020, 05:43:10 PM »
#MeToo
The key word is constitutional.
Good thing you and groveler live a long drive from each other and me.

If we started hanging out, God knows what might happen........

Flapp_Jackson

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 06:07:26 PM »
"...with more than 400,000 guns registered in Hawaii.”
Source: Are There More Guns Than People In Hawaii



Hawaii has an artificially high number of guns because currently there is no facility/process to unregister guns in the Hawaii gun database.  Thousands of military come into Hawaii who are required to register their guns when they get stationed here.  When they leave the islands the guns are still registered in the database.  Same with all the Hawaii people who moved to the Mainland because of the high cost of living...their guns are still registered here even though they no longer live here.  If you sell your gun thru gunbroker or similar site to someone on the Mainland, same thing...the gun stays registered to you even if you notify HPD that you sold it to someone on the Mainland.  I used to send a letter to HPD with gun transfer information(which mainland FFL I sent it to) until one day I got a call from a lady at HPD telling me not to send gun transfer information for guns I sold to the Mainland.  She told me they don't unregister guns that get sold to someone on the Mainland, they just shred these notifications if the gun goes to the Mainland.  I asked if she could document this policy on HPD letterhead and send it to me, but she refused.  So I have a bunch of guns I no longer own still registered to me. 

This changes with this year's legislation that was passed that requires you to notify the gov't when a gun leaves Hawaii.   The original bill criminalized not making the notification, however,  the legislators got feedback from people(like me)  who complained  that we no longer have guns that were sold to mainland buyers that are still registered in the database.  The legislators were nice enough to change the bill so it's not a criminal offense now, but instead they will fine me $200 per firearm(how nice of them!) for every gun I sold to a mainland buyer that I did not notify the govt about...of course, I did notify HPD, but they shredded those documents.  I emailed my senator Brian Taniguchi about this and he couldn't believe it was HPD policy to shred those documents.  He told me I needed to contact the legislators in the Judiciary committee since they are responsible for that bill...which I did...no one replied back to me.  Taniguchi is not gun friendly, however, he's the only legislator who responded back personally, assigned an aide to do some research and confirmed that the bill was amended not to criminalize non-notification.  I even told him that HPD doesn't allow you to update your gun registrations when you move.  When I bought my first condo, I went down to HPD to change my address on my gun registrations.  They refused to update my records and told me not to worry about it.  WTF?  This a government gun registry and they don't think it's important to document where the guns are actually located?

The state is going to get a huge financial windfall for fining the tens(if not hundreds) of thousands people $200 per firearm who left Hawaii with their guns and did not notify the govt.  I think this is how they plan to tackle the state's current budget deficit.

But anyways...this is why we have an artificially high gun count in Hawaii...

Based on all of this, I think the law violates the 14th  amendment since they will fine a Hawaii resident for transferring a firearm to another state, but they can't fine a former resident for moving to another state and taking the firearms with them.  Once the owner is no longer in Hawaii jurisdiction, they can't enforce fines on non-residents.

As you said, there is no way to update the address on a registration, so moving out of state would also fall under that failed process.

Equal application under the law is a Constitutionally protected right.  If they can't or won't fine everyone who isn't notifying them that a firearm has transferred out of state, then they should not be fining anyone.
"That's what laws are for...  If the right people don't break 'em, they're of no use whatsoever.""

ren

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 06:36:25 PM »
I don't doubt it.  There were a lot of guns owned by Hawaii people prior to requirement to register firearms.  Lots of firearms already owned before that stupid 1994 or whenever law was put in effect.

Being in his 20s or so, "OG" wasn't sentient yet.

obm

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 06:51:25 PM »
Based on all of this, I think the law violates the 14th  amendment since they will fine a Hawaii resident for transferring a firearm to another state, but they can't fine a former resident for moving to another state and taking the firearms with them.  Once the owner is no longer in Hawaii jurisdiction, they can't enforce fines on non-residents.

As you said, there is no way to update the address on a registration, so moving out of state would also fall under that failed process.

Equal application under the law is a Constitutionally protected right.  If they can't or won't fine everyone who isn't notifying them that a firearm has transferred out of state, then they should not be fining anyone.

The AG knows there are problems with this law.  They are currently tasked with coming up with the official form to notify of when a firearm gets moved out of state, however, I don't think they have a solution for all the guns that have already gone out of state and are still registered in the gun database.

oldfart

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 06:58:03 PM »
Being in his 20s or so, "OG" wasn't sentient yet.
....
 :rofl:
What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 07:46:08 PM »
The AG knows there are problems with this law.  They are currently tasked with coming up with the official form to notify of when a firearm gets moved out of state, however, I don't think they have a solution for all the guns that have already gone out of state and are still registered in the gun database.

While the AG is at it, maybe they can provide a list of all the crimes solved using the registration system. 

Then provide an estimate of the cost of the registration system paid by taxes since its inception.
"That's what laws are for...  If the right people don't break 'em, they're of no use whatsoever.""

RSN172

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2020, 05:35:36 AM »
While the AG is at it, maybe they can provide a list of all the crimes solved using the registration system. 

Then provide an estimate of the cost of the registration system paid by taxes since its inception.
Sorry, that would require logical and analytical thinking.  Something that is in short supply in Hawaii government right now.  You know, because of Covid and rail.

changemyoil66

Re: We're no. 1!
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2020, 07:40:11 AM »
While the AG is at it, maybe they can provide a list of all the crimes solved using the registration system. 

Then provide an estimate of the cost of the registration system paid by taxes since its inception.
U smoking that same shit hunter be smoking.

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