Is Rap Back still a concern today? (Read 5596 times)

takeiteasy

Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« on: October 31, 2020, 04:17:38 PM »
Just wondering how many of the community from a couple years ago have not made any new purchases because of this.  Everyone has enough..... :)

robtmc

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2020, 04:53:43 PM »
Just wondering how many of the community from a couple years ago have not made any new purchases because of this.  Everyone has enough..... :)
Nothing here, hopefully have what i need.   Would need a large safe to get more toys, what with the air gun stuff I got during the infamous ammo shortage.  Ammo is still an issue.and they are hinting at trying to stifle buying that as well.

punaperson

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2020, 05:29:03 PM »
Just wondering how many of the community from a couple years ago have not made any new purchases because of this.  Everyone has enough..... :)
My middle finger has been raised in a proud salute to the moronic liars that call themselves Hawaii's legislators, executives, and law enforcement since they enacted RapBack.

At that time I already legally possessed several firearms. Nowhere near three figures... though if things go south and they come for our stuff, it will be reported by the fascist-abetting news media as "a sizable arsenal".

omnigun

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2020, 06:11:27 PM »
Fuck rap back, lasted 4 years but I need guns.

ren

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2020, 08:35:51 AM »
yes that would be me. Since RapBack started no new firearms.
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2020, 12:59:58 PM »
I've been in a holding patter.  Not a RAPBACK enrollee, and I hope it's repealed before I can't resist a special purchase.

I won't say I have "enough", but let's leave it as "I can arm the household and all the neighbors on my block, and still have back-ups."
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

toku58

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2020, 03:19:24 PM »
Sorry for the question, but what is Rap back?

jc2721

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2020, 03:36:52 PM »
drank the kool aid years ago, otherwise I wouldnt have been able to pick these up










wait...what's that bottom feeder doing there?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 03:44:36 PM by jc2721 »

jc2721

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2020, 03:38:35 PM »
They keep getting lost in tragic boating accidents, never to be seen again so I gotta keep replacing them.... ;)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2020, 04:06:52 PM »
Sorry for the question, but what is Rap back?

RAPBACK is part of NGI. 

Quote
This new system, the Next Generation Identification (NGI), provides the criminal justice community
with the world’s largest and most efficient electronic repository of biometric and criminal history
information.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/fingerprints-and-other-biometrics/ngi

It will replace AFIS, the world-s largest person-centric database of fingerprints and other biometrics.  "The IAFIS provided automated tenprint and latent fingerprint searches, electronic image storage, electronic exchanges of fingerprints and responses, as well as text-based searches based on descriptive information."

NGI rolls up the capabilities of:
- Advanced Fingerprint Identification Technology (AFIT)
- Repository for Individuals of Special Concern (RISC)
- Latent and Palm Prints
- Rap Back
- Interstate Photo System
- Facial Recognition Search
- Cold Case/Unknown Deceased
- Iris Pilot

Rap Back is in general terms a "rolling background check system."  It's original intent was to track high risk professionals -- people in positions of authority or where criminal behavior would do grave damage or injury.  Examples are school teachers, daycare workers and police officers.  Even if/though a background check is run preemployment, it was too easy for such an individual to commit a crime in another state and never have the information relayed to authorities in the person's state of residence.  Also, being registered as a sexual predator/offender in one state might not appear in a different state's or FBI's background check.

Rap Back is supposed to not only consolidate pertinent information from all local, state and federal sources in one searchable database, it's also supposed to be updated if something pertinent is entered in any of those sources and reported to subscribing agencies.

The system is relatively new, and any state agency subscribing to it must pay for reporting access, or be a "special" agency which can access it for no fee.

The other requirement is that the state must support its own criminal database for local reports, and that system subscribes to Rap Back.  Just like email that travels from server to server until it reaches the recipient, the information on a teacher, for example, gets updated from another state and winds its way to the teacher's place of residence.  It goes to the Hawaii criminal justice data system.  That system in turn notifies the department of education, the school they work for, and/or any other subscribed agency.  No need to wait for a court case to learn of law enforcement interaction.  Just being interviewed as a suspect will be reported to Rap Back and eventually to your employer.

Enter the gun control state of Hawaii.  They decided that gun owners are just as potentially dangerous as bad Cops, pedophiles and daycare workers who traffic in drugs.  If any report comes across Rap Back, and then the HI system, it might be enough to strip you of your guns even though you passed the permit background check a week before.  Let's say your spouse in another state is fighting for sole custody of your children.  She gets mad and files a domestic abuse report in her state even though you were nowhere near.  That report goes to HPD via Rap Back, and viola!! They now have cause to relieve you of those dangerous weapons!  Pre-Rap-Back, unless someone directly contacted HPD from the other state's law enforcement or DA, you'd be okay with your guns until a judge says you're guilty of domestic abuse.

The kicker:  Hawaii has been collecting Rap Back subscription costs from gun owners even though the state's criminal justice data system is NOT enrolled in Rap Back!  We'd been connected to it in the beginning stages as one of a few states willing to beta test Rap Back.  But I don't think we ever progressed to fully operational.

Those are the basics from what I know.  If anyone has updates regarding Hawaii's connections to Rap Back or not can fill in the details for me.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 04:13:02 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

toku58

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2020, 04:21:14 PM »
I had to pay the “One Time FBI” background fee again when I went to get my permit.  Since the Covid restrictions are in place and you have to wait 90 days for an appointment wouldn’t that waiting period cover the 14 day waiting period?

So technically I’M WAITING TO PURCHASE MY GUN 104 DAYS!

Our State is whacked!!!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2020, 04:31:03 PM »
I had to pay the “One Time FBI” background fee again when I went to get my permit.  Since the Covid restrictions are in place and you have to wait 90 days for an appointment wouldn’t that waiting period cover the 14 day waiting period?

So technically I’M WAITING TO PURCHASE MY GUN 104 DAYS!

Our State is whacked!!!

Yep.  Everyone who applied for a permit on or after December 4, 2016, was hit for the one-time fee again if they already paid it before, because NGI is not the same system our fingerprints were entered into in the past  --  I assume that was AFIT.  Same fingerprints, different database system.

The COVID-19 reservation system is a different issue.  It's being abused apparently by some gun shops that one person on here at least refuses to name, as well as scalpers and anti-gun jerks just making the system difficult for real gun buyers.  The anti-gunners do the same by filling up the HI Hunter's Ed course online registrations so people wanting the course have to show up and get on the stand-by list.

It's been suggested that there needs to be a $5 or $10 registration fee for applicants, just to keep the fraudsters away.  Not sure that'll do anything about scalpers except raise the asking prices.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

6716J

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2020, 01:23:16 PM »
Yep.  Everyone who applied for a permit on or after December 4, 2016, was hit for the one-time fee again if they already paid it before, because NGI is not the same system our fingerprints were entered into in the past  --  I assume that was AFIT.  Same fingerprints, different database system.

The COVID-19 reservation system is a different issue.  It's being abused apparently by some gun shops that one person on here at least refuses to name, as well as scalpers and anti-gun jerks just making the system difficult for real gun buyers.  The anti-gunners do the same by filling up the HI Hunter's Ed course online registrations so people wanting the course have to show up and get on the stand-by list.

It's been suggested that there needs to be a $5 or $10 registration fee for applicants, just to keep the fraudsters away.  Not sure that'll do anything about scalpers except raise the asking prices.

So they are proposing a fee increase then? Or another additional fee? Or a "deposit" to be applied? Because the permit fee currently paid is ONE TIME. If not a fee increase or additional,. how do you get your money back?

But again, this is why I like Nevada's system so much. Walk in store, plop down money, do the 4473, pass the NICS and then walk out with firearm. Private party - exchange money and gun (until they fix the badly written law mandating BG checks on PP transfers)
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

changemyoil66

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2020, 01:27:17 PM »
I would say a $5-$10 hold that gets reimbursed after you apply for something/register.  But this sounds too complicated for HI's IT guys.

drck1000

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2020, 02:08:13 PM »
When RapBack started, I was going to hold out until RapBack was repealed, challenged, whatevers.  But then my dad passed away and I had to go through the registration process to take possession of his firearms.  Once I got back on RapBack, I bought a few firearms for myself as well.

I have a few firearms that I've been eyeing, but eff waiting months to get permit to acquire.  I don't "need" any more guns, but lots of wants. 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2020, 02:43:14 PM »
So they are proposing a fee increase then? Or another additional fee? Or a "deposit" to be applied? Because the permit fee currently paid is ONE TIME. If not a fee increase or additional,. how do you get your money back?

But again, this is why I like Nevada's system so much. Walk in store, plop down money, do the 4473, pass the NICS and then walk out with firearm. Private party - exchange money and gun (until they fix the badly written law mandating BG checks on PP transfers)

If you have a Concealed Carry license, you don't even have to do the 3-5 day wait for handguns.  You would be exempt in NV for the NICS background check when buying any firearm.  The FFL will start the NICS check, but it'll be cash and carry if you are on the Exemption List.   :thumbsup:

In NV, having a valid concealed carry permit issued on or after July 1, 2011, qualifies for the NICS exemption.

https://www.usacarry.com/ccw-bypass-background-check-purchasing-gun/

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2020, 03:09:31 PM »
When I had my WA CCW, we were exempt from the national 10 day waiting period, which thankfully ended.  That was actually the main reason why I got my CCW. 

6716J

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2020, 08:20:22 AM »
If you have a Concealed Carry license, you don't even have to do the 3-5 day wait for handguns.  You would be exempt in NV for the NICS background check when buying any firearm.  The FFL will start the NICS check, but it'll be cash and carry if you are on the Exemption List.   :thumbsup:

In NV, having a valid concealed carry permit issued on or after July 1, 2011, qualifies for the NICS exemption.

https://www.usacarry.com/ccw-bypass-background-check-purchasing-gun/

Yeah and they got rid of that back in 2015 when the State said registration was illegal and METRO had to destroy all the registration records. I still have my blue cards
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

rpoL98

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2020, 10:19:47 AM »
fuck Willie Espero and the horse he rode in on.

(main proponent of Rap Back).

aieahound

Re: Is Rap Back still a concern today?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2020, 10:43:11 AM »
And his cat !
(I know Knutsen is the cat kisser but I’m guessing Willie has at least one too.)

Personally, I haven’t bought anything but ammo since rapeback was instituted.
I actually started to thin the herd.
Should see my last permit where I contorted my face to defeat their face recognition system.
(Before that there were no photos on the permit. )
Young buck behind the window wasn’t amused but a seasoned officer told him to relax.