I thought that Trump would address our debt issue. And it sounded like he was going to in his next term. But I doubt he could have done much without the house being in his corner. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

I think you know, as much as I that the US debt owed, to all of its creditors, is in all likelihood, mathematically almost impossible to pay back, given the continued borrowing the US does to maintain its empire and the compound interest that it accrues, by the second.  All the empires, in the past, went through the same cycle, before its final fall (e.g., Rome, Britain, Soviet Union, etc.).

The sad part, of all of this, is that the solution to solve America's problems is what the US does not have the political will to do.  It needs to give-up its empire by: withdrawing its political and military presence, around the globe; letting states that were never legally a part of or do not wish, to be part, of the restored American Republic, leave the union; focusing on its domestic manufacturing; shutting off its borders; and no more immigration, of any kind.

Had Imperial Rome, Britain, and the Soviet Union followed some, of the suggestions I listed, they might have lasted a little longer, as a political entity.

One thing I disagree with you about is debt.
The vast majority of our debt is owed to Americans, China is not our greatest holder of debt, Japan is.
It is Social security and all the institutional debt holders that will get stiffed.  Read another way
all the old retirees, will get "stiffed".

I'm only worried about China in the sense that They have bought our Deep state Socialist enablers.
Biden as an example. and introduced institutional cheating into power in America.

As for succession, True coastal blue cities control most of the ports, but that is all they do.
if you look at the way GDP is calculated, it includes government spending, entertainment, financial,
services, service industry, and High "tech", most of what I mentioned doesn't produce anything. no food, no power, no
no water, very little manufacturing, or nature resource exploitation.  In other wards they only make or process
money, nothing tangible is produced.  Can you eat a movie, or a TV show?  Can a bank produce electricity?
Do you really need to eat out at a restaurant?  I'm a software engineer, the only real value of what I produced in my lifetime
is tools used to produce something else.  Face book and Twitter can't  even do that, yet they are worth hundreds of billions.
It is all make believe GDP.  What is a dollar really worth?
I have a Heifer in my pasture that is worth over 1400$.  Wrong! 
She  is worth 20 years worth of food for my family and then some.  She can have babies.
We have to learn that the box we are in, is defective.  Just because a political party says
this is how we should live and this is all settled science,  just doesn't make it so.
Majority rule is tyranny, as is a monarchy, as is an oligarchy.
Democrats would have you believe our Majority elected oligarchy is legitimate.
As we Hawaiian citizens have recently discovered, the only value of such a society is what
producing people are willing to invest in it.  I'm not willing to invest in any Democrat ruled
society.  So let them secede or we should secede from them.





in America.

Groveler,

Do me a favor and reread what I wrote. I never said China is our greatest holder of debt. I said they own “a lot” of it. It is not the same thing. They are the largest holder of our debt from an unfriendly country. But I do feel they own enough of our debt to create the scenario I just described. Please make sure you quote me correctly, thanks.

As far as blue state control of coastal states are concerned you forgot they also could easily take control of the transportation of goods in and out of their state. So it’s not just the ports they control. It would be easy for them to starve a large swath of our country if that area wanted to secede and did not do as the blue states please. CA has already tried to distance themselves from certain red states by not allowing government and government employees to do certain business with those states. It is not a stretch to think they could cut them off completely during a time of civil war or government overthrow. I can’t speak for the other states but CA also produces a lot. They still have some small manufacturing and a lot of agriculture and farming. So you say they don’t produce but you are incorrect. They produce a lot. Still. Arguably not as much as they used to. And they still produce power. Not enough for themselves which is why they get the rest of what they need from AZ, NV and UT.

If you reread what I said I stated that when NV, AZ and UT turn blue we will be in a bad tenable position. Why? Because those states provide power and some food to the coastal states on the west coast. What that means is that those states will be in lockstep with the coastal states. You need to look at the bigger picture. It is not just the coastal states that are blue. NV, AZ and UT are in danger of turning blue and come under the control of those who want to fundamentally change the US towards Socialism. That is what this thread is all about. AZ is turning blue. It has been purple for a long time. My statement to Kuleana on how how our country may have a civil war or be overthrown will occur when enough states are blue and under control of those who will have the power to make those changes happen after they bankrupt the Federal Government. It is my opinion only.

And while I agree that we shouldn’t listen to what the government tells us, and that we should be self sufficient like you are, the problem I stated is that there is a huge portion of our population who do listen to our government. They see the value of government control and Socialism because that is what they were taught. Right or wrong. And is also one of the issues I brought up if you reread what I wrote. You have no control over what others think and do. The issue becomes when the socialist government controls the food chain both farming and distribution, those of us who rely on Sak N Save, Safeway, Kroegers etc for our food (The majority of us) will find grocery stores no longer exist because they have been taken over by the government and we will be forced to go to the government bread and cheese lines to get our food. Like I said, starvation is a powerful tool to make the masses succumb to being controlled. Not all of us are as lucky to be as self sufficient as you are.

I know you philosophically disagree, with my premise, and respect your views, but the US empire is in decline economically, morally bankrupt, racially and philosophically divided, and the lists could go on.  The deep state, power elite, ultra-wealthy, banking cartels, or whatever you wish to call those, who really control the empire, know the end days, of the US, is at hand.

The only way they can save their empire is by going to war, with the country that is slated to take its place, China.  This, of course, is sheer insanity considering such a war would entail nuclear weapons, at some point.  However, those at the top, appear willing to risk war, since those groups already have their bunkers, global hideaways, survival food, supplies, guns, etc., and maybe their own miniature army, for all we know.  They will live on and any starving survivors would be willing servants, to their new feudal masters.

It is this premise above, that I justify my observations, of the US's geopolitical policy towards China.  The bottom line: China has economically defeated the US empire using their socialist-led version, free market capitalism.  Similar to the British empire before, the US empire thinks going to war with China, as the British empire did with Germany, will solve their problems.  However, there are no real winners, when it comes to WWIII.


The Clintons have a dead man's switch and those who really control the US empire are probably the ones, who might even threatened Trump, with a Kennedy-like assassination, if he pursued the matter further.


The bankrupting of America, is no longer limited, to Democrat spending bills anymore.  As I presented, in the Covid-19 threads months ago, the FED has been loaning/dumping dollars directly, into the economy, with reckless impunity, not just in the US, but to the rest, of the US empire's allies.


Exactly, my contention.  The only difference is that I believe the US empire is bankrupt now and is unwilling to surrender its hegemon status, on this planet.  Hence, to avoid the civil war scenario you stated, the real rulers, of the US empire, are desperately trying to goad China, into a shooting war.


Freedom, as was described, in the Bill of Rights, has ceased to exist a long time ago.  As I contend, when the American Republic made the change to US empire, what its subjects now have is permitted freedoms, as evidenced, by the ongoing attacks, on all of the Amendments, in the Bill of Rights.

Sorry, I don’t have it in me to go piece by piece today. Just not in the mood to get too involved in a big discussion. I will touch on a few points but forgive me if I don’t get too deep.

As far as saving the empire uh, I mean the republic   I have always been for the accountable flat rate tax with the mandatory interest pay down. Obviously, it will never happen but I believe it can and would save our empire uh, I mean republic. I mean this as a joke BTW. We have a flat rate tax that everyone is required to pay. A certain percentage off that tax has to go towards paying down our debt with interest. Every year that tax rate is calculated based on how much the government spends. So if the government spends more the tax rate goes up. If they spend less the rate goes down. So congress is accountable. Get rid of all the loopholes and make it so a postcard and a one page tax return is all that is needed at the end of the year. It is simple and fair since everyone pays the same rate. Last time Herman Cain was the flat rate tax proponent and if I remember correctly he had the rate calculated out to about 12% or so. I believe there is another way. War is not always the answer. JMHO

My thoughts about why AG Barr has not gone after HRC was not so much because of others getting to Barr as much as I feel that Trump stopped Barr from going after her. Whether he feels sorry for her or someone got to him, who knows? It is only a feeling I have so I don’t really know. But if you go out to Judicial Watch’s website all the evidence is there. We are being lied to about this.

Sorry but I have not read much of what you wrote about COVID. I’m at a point in my life that I only take in so much every morning and then I stop and go do some chores or something productive or something fun. I gloss over or just don’t read most of what is in the forum any more. So I don’t know what you wrote.

I think you know, as much as I that the US debt owed, to all of its creditors, is in all likelihood, mathematically almost impossible to pay back, given the continued borrowing the US does to maintain its empire and the compound interest that it accrues, by the second.  All the empires, in the past, went through the same cycle, before its final fall (e.g., Rome, Britain, Soviet Union, etc.).

The sad part, of all of this, is that the solution to solve America's problems is what the US does not have the political will to do.  It needs to give-up its empire by: withdrawing its political and military presence, around the globe; letting states that were never legally a part of or do not wish, to be part, of the restored American Republic, leave the union; focusing on its domestic manufacturing; shutting off its borders; and no more immigration, of any kind.

Had Imperial Rome, Britain, and the Soviet Union followed some, of the suggestions I listed, they might have lasted a little longer, as a political entity.

You and I agree to some extent here. I don’t agree that it is mathematically impossible. Because if we are at that point, we would be declaring bankruptcy. That is the classic definition. I think we are close but not impossible to overcome, yet. I do agree that we should withdraw from some territories and allow Hawaii to leave if they so desire. I believe Alaska it too important to give up. Also, I would not allow any of the 48 to leave. And I agree we need to withdraw from some countries as they are no longer strategic to us any more. But I believe some countries are too important to leave. But for different reasons than you believe.

I also agree with shutting down our borders but allowing limited controlled immigration. Focus on domestic manufacturing? HELL YEAH!

Your suggestions are all good. Some are a little harsh IMHO but we have to start somewhere, right?

You and I agree to some extent here. I don’t agree that it is mathematically impossible. Because if we are at that point, we would be declaring bankruptcy. That is the classic definition. I think we are close but not impossible to overcome, yet. I do agree that we should withdraw from some territories and allow Hawaii to leave if they so desire. I believe Alaska it too important to give up. Also, I would not allow any of the 48 to leave. And I agree we need to withdraw from some countries as they are no longer strategic to us any more. But I believe some countries are too important to leave. But for different reasons than you believe.

I also agree with shutting down our borders but allowing limited controlled immigration. Focus on domestic manufacturing? HELL YEAH!

Your suggestions are all good. Some are a little harsh IMHO but we have to start somewhere, right?

I think the opposite we are rich because we expand.  America would never be such a great country if we were isolationist.  Isolationism never works.  Look at old Japan.  This is a world economy.    Our security and power come from our "imperialism".  All the rich countries in the world are not isolationist.  Look at North Korea.  China will just do the same but treat everyone worse.  Hawaii shall never leave,  the majority of the people do not want to leave. We (America) own this island now .  Just like the Native Americans can't kick all the Americans off. 

I think the opposite we are rich because we expand.  America would never be such a great country if we were isolationist.  Isolationism never works.  Look at old Japan.  This is a world economy.    Our security and power come from our "imperialism".  All the rich countries in the world are not isolationist.  Look at North Korea.  China will just do the same but treat everyone worse.  Hawaii shall never leave,  the majority of the people do not want to leave. We (America) own this island now .  Just like the Native Americans can't kick all the Americans off.

Good. I am happy for you, dumbass. You have an opinion. I don’t give a flying fuck.

I was not talking to you. I was talking to Kuleana. Stay out of my conversations with other people.

Remember you said you were going to slow way down on responding to posts? Guess you lie a lot, dumbass. Do both of us a favor. Quit responding to my discussions with other people. Your attempts to sidetrack threads are duly noted, troll. Stay the fuck out of my conversations with others.

Groveler,

Do me a favor and reread what I wrote. I never said China is our greatest holder of debt. I said they own “a lot” of it. It is not the same thing. They are the largest holder of our debt from an unfriendly country. But I do feel they own enough of our debt to create the scenario I just described. Please make sure you quote me correctly, thanks.

As far as blue state control of coastal states are concerned you forgot they also could easily take control of the transportation of goods in and out of their state. So it’s not just the ports they control. It would be easy for them to starve a large swath of our country if that area wanted to secede and did not do as the blue states please. CA has already tried to distance themselves from certain red states by not allowing government and government employees to do certain business with those states. It is not a stretch to think they could cut them off completely during a time of civil war or government overthrow. I can’t speak for the other states but CA also produces a lot. They still have some small manufacturing and a lot of agriculture and farming. So you say they don’t produce but you are incorrect. They produce a lot. Still. Arguably not as much as they used to. And they still produce power. Not enough for themselves which is why they get the rest of what they need from AZ, NV and UT.

If you reread what I said I stated that when NV, AZ and UT turn blue we will be in a bad tenable position. Why? Because those states provide power and some food to the coastal states on the west coast. What that means is that those states will be in lockstep with the coastal states. You need to look at the bigger picture. It is not just the coastal states that are blue. NV, AZ and UT are in danger of turning blue and come under the control of those who want to fundamentally change the US towards Socialism. That is what this thread is all about. AZ is turning blue. It has been purple for a long time. My statement to Kuleana on how how our country may have a civil war or be overthrown will occur when enough states are blue and under control of those who will have the power to make those changes happen after they bankrupt the Federal Government. It is my opinion only.

And while I agree that we shouldn’t listen to what the government tells us, and that we should be self sufficient like you are, the problem I stated is that there is a huge portion of our population who do listen to our government. They see the value of government control and Socialism because that is what they were taught. Right or wrong. And is also one of the issues I brought up if you reread what I wrote. You have no control over what others think and do. The issue becomes when the socialist government controls the food chain both farming and distribution, those of us who rely on Sak N Save, Safeway, Kroegers etc for our food (The majority of us) will find grocery stores no longer exist because they have been taken over by the government and we will be forced to go to the government bread and cheese lines to get our food. Like I said, starvation is a powerful tool to make the masses succumb to being controlled. Not all of us are as lucky to be as self sufficient as you are.

"Do me a favor and reread what I wrote. I never said China is our greatest holder of debt. I said they own “a lot” of it. It is not the same thing. They are the largest holder of our debt from an unfriendly country. But I do feel they own enough of our debt to create the scenario I just described. Please make sure you quote me correctly, thanks."

I am guilty of not responding to your exact words.  I was responding to the Rhetoric I interpreted from the whole of the paragraph.
I mean Rhetoric in a complementary way.
I used to buy Treasuries, you cannot demand a bond be cashed in, you sell it if you don't want it anymore, someone will buy it or not.
Doesn't affect the Treasury a bit.
If China wants to dump our debt, I'm sure there will be people willing to pay pennies on the dollar for it.

Both of us grew up in California so we know the state.  I also spent a fair amount of time in Northern CA.
I had a lot of family in Eastern OR.
I also know a lot of people in Eastern WA.
The rural areas are where most the production and manufacturing occurs in those states.
Most rural areas already want to be separate from the cities and the cities won't let them be free
of the yoke.
I don't think that states will secede, but only the cities and they will not be able to control the resources
of an entire state.  For example if Honolulu decided that Hawaii is going to secede, I'm pretty sure the BI
would not go along with it. That is my opinion.

I'm not yet completely self sufficient, yet, but my point was that the cities weak point is, they cannot survive without
the rural areas,  since the cites have chased out industry, manufacturing, food production, power generation et al
to rural areas.  Now, if you think a government motivated by starving people in cities will mobilize against the rural
areas and you are talking about a Ukrainian style Holodomor.  I think that is unlikely.  We have way too many "Toys"
at our disposal these days.
Modern Society is highly dependent on complex systems that are easy to disable and hard to fix.
Think 4GW not WWII 3GW war.
Once again that is my opinion.

Good luck in Az and on the Mainland.  Part of the reason I located to rural
Hawaii, was its isolation.
Aloha.

"Do me a favor and reread what I wrote. I never said China is our greatest holder of debt. I said they own “a lot” of it. It is not the same thing. They are the largest holder of our debt from an unfriendly country. But I do feel they own enough of our debt to create the scenario I just described. Please make sure you quote me correctly, thanks."

I am guilty of not responding to your exact words.  I was responding to the Rhetoric I interpreted from the whole of the paragraph.
I mean Rhetoric in a complementary way.
I used to buy Treasuries, you cannot demand a bond be cashed in, you sell it if you don't want it anymore, someone will buy it or not.
Doesn't affect the Treasury a bit.
If China wants to dump our debt, I'm sure there will be people willing to pay pennies on the dollar for it.

Both of us grew up in California so we know the state.  I also spent a fair amount of time in Northern CA.
I had a lot of family in Eastern OR.
I also know a lot of people in Eastern WA.
The rural areas are where most the production and manufacturing occurs in those states.
Most rural areas already want to be separate from the cities and the cities won't let them be free
of the yoke.
I don't think that states will secede, but only the cities and they will not be able to control the resources
of an entire state.  For example if Honolulu decided that Hawaii is going to secede, I'm pretty sure the BI
would not go along with it. That is my opinion.

I'm not yet completely self sufficient, yet, but my point was that the cities weak point is, they cannot survive without
the rural areas,  since the cites have chased out industry, manufacturing, food production, power generation et al
to rural areas.  Now, if you think a government motivated by starving people in cities will mobilize against the rural
areas and you are talking about a Ukrainian style Holodomor.  I think that is unlikely.  We have way too many "Toys"
at our disposal these days.
Modern Society is highly dependent on complex systems that are easy to disable and hard to fix.
Think 4GW not WWII 3GW war.
Once again that is my opinion.

Good luck in Az and on the Mainland.  Part of the reason I located to rural
Hawaii, was its isolation.
Aloha.

Of course China could dump our debt if they wanted to. I think you are missing my point though. What I was saying is that they hold enough of our debt that if we were to go into default and they demand assets instead of dollars we would be in big trouble because we don’t have enough assets to back up our deflating dollar. That would start a war. Or maybe we could just give them Hawaii? Just kidding.

Okay, I didn’t know that you were referring to the big cities in CA and not all of CA. I understand what you are saying now. Actually, I wish the rural part of CA would try and secede from the rest of CA. Any legal battle, no matter the outcome would make them look like idiots. “Why would anyone want to leave this?”

BTW, I don’t know if I told you this or not but I learned a lot from your references to 4GW and 3GW. I was always thinking in terms of 3GW but I have changed the way I think about certain things due to your references. I had never heard of 4GW before.

I wish you luck in becoming fully self sufficient. It’s tough in this day and age but not impossible. I wish I didn’t have to rely on certain things but my wife’s health made certain decisions for me. We moved out to rural AZ about as far out as we could and still be close to doctors and hospitals that we could. I hope none of these things happen in our lives or in anyone’s lives.

. Or maybe we could just give them Hawaii? Just kidding.

I'm married to a Chinese girl, so I'd probably be OK.  But she is half Taiwanese, so maybe not.

I'm married to a Chinese girl, so I'd probably be OK.  But she is half Taiwanese, so maybe not.

Well, you better be careful or China may hook up a tow line to the islands and you’ll be part of mainland China in no time! 

I have a haole friend who lives on the Big Island. He’s retired and owns a condo in Waikoloa and a condo in Taiwan. His wife is Taiwanese. They spend 6 months every year in each condo. He loves Taiwan. I think if it wasn’t for the fact he owns businesses and property in Hawaii he would probably move to Taiwan for good.

Well, you better be careful or China may hook up a tow line to the islands and you’ll be part of mainland China in no time! 

I have a haole friend who lives on the Big Island. He’s retired and owns a condo in Waikoloa and a condo in Taiwan. His wife is Taiwanese. They spend 6 months every year in each condo. He loves Taiwan. I think if it wasn’t for the fact he owns businesses and property in Hawaii he would probably move to Taiwan for good.

I can guarantee we wont be towed to China.  The wife knows I got a thing for Chinese chicks, so she would go to full war to China if they tried to do it.

I can guarantee we wont be towed to China.  The wife knows I got a thing for Chinese chicks, so she would go to full war to China if they tried to do it.

What if china came to you and built an artificial Chinese island near Oahu.  Seem to be working for them in other parts of the ocean.

What if china came to you and built an artificial Chinese island near Oahu.  Seem to be working for them in other parts of the ocean.

Islands by definition don't float.  Are you saying the Chinese will build pylons to the floor of the ocean near Hawaii and then build platforms on them for people to live and work on top of?

I'd pay good money to watch that reality TV show!   

I can guarantee we wont be towed to China.  The wife knows I got a thing for Chinese chicks, so she would go to full war to China if they tried to do it.

you know if you ever get a Chinese chick pregnant, you ain't getting a daughter....I think I had a sister for all of 3 minutes...my popo told me she was a mermaid...

Islands by definition don't float.  Are you saying the Chinese will build pylons to the floor of the ocean near Hawaii and then build platforms on them for people to live and work on top of?

I'd pay good money to watch that reality TV show!   

they already have an island in very close proximity to Oahu...

they already have an island in very close proximity to Oahu...

Is that the Liaoning, or the Shandong?

LOL, Chinaman's Hat by Kaneohe?

Waycist to call it chinamans hat. Must rename now! Like how kahuku is.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

they already have an island in very close proximity to Oahu...

No way, that dude has a floating something so's you can walk out there at low tide.

Never had the balls to try, worrying about footing and tides.........................

No way, that dude has a floating something so's you can walk out there at low tide.

Never had the balls to try, worrying about footing and tides.........................

Used to take the canoes out there when I was younger. Good fun.