Harsh.  True, but harsh. . .
Consider this for a second.  This is just the fraud that has been discovered, or allegedly discovered.  You REALLY think that's it?  You said above, checks and balances.  Why not audit the system first and then release the results?  Think!!!  THINK!!!

Currently there is no evidence of mass fraud,  just because you think there is the burden of proof is on you/accusers.  I am all for auditing the systems and making improvements.  The system isn't perfect but to say its full of fraud with no irrefutable evidence is a stretch.  There have been investigations and there has been no signs of fraud,  even republicans say there is no fraud.  Trying to disprove this is like trying to disprove god.  You can search all day and find some facts but they will always be able to point to something or someone else and it would be endless.  At this point much like you like to accuse me, you are running off feelings.  You feel there is fraud.  I will wait and reserve my judgement for the court system.  Trump has brought some cases up and lets see how it fairs in court.  As of now with the innocent till proven guilty in America we run off the default belief in the system.  Till proven the system is broken. 

Again, back up your statement. . .

What am I getting at?  You make CLAIMS, throwing things out there that you BELIEVE, but never offer any proof or backup.  You demand backup and TANGIBLE proof to get you to believe.  Please forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

Did you just completely ignore the web link I posted with evidence?

"Of 406,425 people who voted in the election, 400,952 of them cast their vote using a mail-in ballot, which is approximately 99% of the entire turnout, according to the report."

https://www.businessinsider.com/hawaii-just-saw-its-highest-primary-turnout-voted-by-mail-2020-8

I understand there are other methods.  Early voting, walk in etc.  I am not saying everyone has to vote my mail. Just that its a good option.  More options the better.  I personally will only vote by mail, all other options seem like more effort same reward.   

Currently there is no evidence of mass fraud,  just because you think there is the burden of proof is on you/accusers.  I am all for auditing the systems and making improvements.  The system isn't perfect but to say its full of fraud with no irrefutable evidence is a stretch.  There have been investigations and there has been no signs of fraud,  even republicans say there is no fraud.  Trying to disprove this is like trying to disprove god.  You can search all day and find some facts but they will always be able to point to something or someone else and it would be endless.  At this point much like you like to accuse me, you are running off feelings.  You feel there is fraud.  I will wait and reserve my judgement for the court system.  Trump has brought some cases up and lets see how it fairs in court.  As of now with the innocent till proven guilty in America we run off the default belief in the system.  Till proven the system is broken.

if there was no inkling of fraud why are there several lawsuits?

Making it harder to vote is a mark of a dictatorship.   For Democracy to thrive it should be available to the masses.   It should be easy and accessible. We want more voters not less.  If not only the extremes win, the most stubborn hard-core will be the main voters.  Why force people to stand in line.   Not everyone has a day off to go vote in person. Especially the younger voters. And not to method this year's pandemic.  I agree that it must be audited and valid.  I would encourage mail in voting.   Perhaps create a unique identification to the ballot to ensure validity. Purge all voter rolls. Have everyone re-apply.  Yearly update via easy to use online system.  Perhaps best tied with state id or drivers license. Just like you can check a box to donate organs. There should be one that you check to vote.

Voting used to be done in school cafeterias.  The school was closed on that day.  So you would have to go to the nearest one to your home because they have  a list.  Which means you cannot vote and multiple school cafes.  There is nothing hard about that and it's easily accessible.  You should look into how dictators came into and stayed in power for countries that used to be a democracy.

Voting used to be done in school cafeterias.  The school was closed on that day.  So you would have to go to the nearest one to your home because they have  a list.  Which means you cannot vote and multiple school cafes.  There is nothing hard about that and it's easily accessible.  You should look into how dictators came into and stayed in power for countries that used to be a democracy.

There are two ways they do that, suppress the vote or fraud the vote.  That's why I said we need balance. Government shouldn't make it hard for you to vote just like it shouldn't be hard to buy a gun.  Government also shouldn't make it so you don't need any checks like a background check.  A balance is like the 72hr law. 

if there was no inkling of fraud why are there several lawsuits?

This is America you don't need proof to do a lawsuit, but you need some to win 

I mean this election 99%+ voted by mail.  Not sure what point you are trying to get at...

I don't believe there was any mass fraud in Hawaii that I know of and our election was basically all mail in voting.

It's because the state mandated mail in voting with a small exception.  They kept only 2 polls open for those who did want to vote in person.  This is why majority voted by mail.  So it;s not voting by mail by choice if that is what you're getting at.

We are going in full circles again.  Like I posted before, mailing yourself $40K in cash would not be your first option.  And as an IT guy, you should know that if they did allow voting online or via app, there is a higher risk of cyber fraud.  So the safest way is to vote in person.  Even that is not 100% because as we have seen, the counting machines in MI have given thousands of votes to the wrong person and blamed it on a "glitch".  But it is the most secure of all available options.

Currently there is no evidence of mass fraud

What is your definition of "mass fraud"?  2; 4; 10000000?

Like someone posted, a nurse in TX was busted for filling out over 100 mail in ballots for old people.  This is just 1 person that we know of.  But then again she wasn't convicted, so I guess it didn't happen right?  Video of Project Veritas on a woman bragging how she could go to jail for doing what she's doing (same as above).  No conviction yet, so never happened I guess.

Also Hitler was never convicted of murdering millions of jews, so that didn't happen either right?

Funny how so far all the "glitches" have been in favor of Biden and none for Trump.  There is a point where you have to accept what is happening and use logic to put 2 and 2 together.  You say there is no evidence, there is and each time they admitted a mistake/glitch.  I guess that makes it all better now and no problem.  But these keep happening.  We are not even on the dead people voting aspect yet.

Did you just completely ignore the web link I posted with evidence?

"Of 406,425 people who voted in the election, 400,952 of them cast their vote using a mail-in ballot, which is approximately 99% of the entire turnout, according to the report."

I didn't COMPLETELY ignore.  I saw it, but it was what S/A reported.  What was the official release from Hawaii election officials?

Latest I saw posted from Office of Elections:

2020   (regsitered) 832,466   (turnout) 579,165   69.6%

I'm not saying that is official or correct, but it doesn't align with the "facts" you posted.  Trust, but verify.  Just because a media outlet reports it, doesn't make it true. 

Yet another "view"

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/523451-hawaii-mail-in-ballots-have-already-surpassed-entire-2016-voter-turnout

Voter turnout for the Nov. 3 election in Hawaii has already surpassed the state's total voter turnout in 2016, with less than one week to go before Election Day.

The Aloha State has returned 457,294 ballots according to Honolulu Civil Beat, putting the state’s voter turnout at 55 percent.

So PLEASE forgive me if I don't just take what you report as gospel. . . .

There are two ways they do that, suppress the vote or fraud the vote.  That's why I said we need balance. Government shouldn't make it hard for you to vote just like it shouldn't be hard to buy a gun.  Government also shouldn't make it so you don't need any checks like a background check.  A balance is like the 72hr law.

So is going to the nearest school cafe to your home (not FFL) suppressing voters?

It's because the state mandated mail in voting with a small exception.  They kept only 2 polls open for those who did want to vote in person.  This is why majority voted by mail.  So it;s not voting by mail by choice if that is what you're getting at.

We are going in full circles again.  Like I posted before, mailing yourself $40K in cash would not be your first option.  And as an IT guy, you should know that if they did allow voting online or via app, there is a higher risk of cyber fraud.  So the safest way is to vote in person.  Even that is not 100% because as we have seen, the counting machines in MI have given thousands of votes to the wrong person and blamed it on a "glitch".  But it is the most secure of all available options.

Yes,  I will try find older articles for previous years if you want that info,  but if I remember correctly it was also majority mail in voting.  I was getting at the mail system is a perfectly fine system as evident by this years seemingly problem free election in Hawaii.

True,  but we live in a world with options,  You still use the web, you still buy stuff online,  even if there is more risks its still a option.  (assuming you don't only buy local in stores).  Forcing everyone to only buy in stores and with cash to prevent any cyber or credit card crimes isn't practical.  Just like forcing everyone to vote in person.  Add some security and improve the mail voting system but don't abolish it.  Its functioning fairly well already. 

So is going to the nearest school cafe to your home (not FFL) suppressing voters?

Yes,  then again I believe Hawaii's current gun requirements are suppressing 2a rights.  So maybe I am bias.

For example myself.  I have to take off work early, this last election I worked the whole day and overtime.  Then I have to drive to a school cafe, find parking, wait in line,  get all my ID info correct.  Bring a phone (not sure if allowed)  do my final research, then vote.  OR I just go home,  when I feel like it for a couple of weeks find time to get on the computer do a little research and vote.  Stick it in the mail and I'm done.  One of these options appear to be much better for me. 

Yes,  I will try find older articles for previous years if you want that info,  but if I remember correctly it was also majority mail in voting.  I was getting at the mail system is a perfectly fine system as evident by this years seemingly problem free election in Hawaii.

True,  but we live in a world with options,  You still use the web, you still buy stuff online,  even if there is more risks its still a option.  (assuming you don't only buy local in stores).  Forcing everyone to only buy in stores and with cash to prevent any cyber or credit card crimes isn't practical.  Just like forcing everyone to vote in person.  Add some security and improve the mail voting system but don't abolish it.  Its functioning fairly well already.

If you want options, why can't I just phone in my vote too?  Or how about just mail a letter, no need a ballot right.

Can you get a drivers license in HI online?  How about a birth certificate?  A passport? A social security card? This is rhetorical and everyone already knows the answer.

Retail is way different from voting.  So that analogy doesn't apply.

I didn't COMPLETELY ignore.  I saw it, but it was what S/A reported.  What was the official release from Hawaii election officials?

Latest I saw posted from Office of Elections:

I'm not saying that is official or correct, but it doesn't align with the "facts" you posted.  Trust, but verify.  Just because a media outlet reports it, doesn't make it true. 

Yet another "view"

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/523451-hawaii-mail-in-ballots-have-already-surpassed-entire-2016-voter-turnout

So PLEASE forgive me if I don't just take what you report as gospel. . . .

True, we can await the final posting by the government,  but not sure how you expected me to get something that doesn't exist yet,  so I could only link other sources.

Yes,  then again I believe Hawaii's current gun requirements are suppressing 2a rights.  So maybe I am bias.

For example myself.  I have to take off work early, this last election I worked the whole day and overtime.  Then I have to drive to a school cafe, find parking, wait in line,  get all my ID info correct.  Bring a phone (not sure if allowed)  do my final research, then vote.  OR I just go home,  when I feel like it for a couple of weeks find time to get on the computer do a little research and vote.  Stick it in the mail and I'm done.  One of these options appear to be much better for me.

The state law gave you 2 hours to go and vote at your polling place.  This was non negotiable for employers.  So at most you lost 2 hours.  Any "research" should have been done before you cast your vote.  Mail in vote may be better for you, but not for the nation when 1 side is stacking the deck.  This is the concept that you have to understand and why this keeps going in circles.

You don't but that eliminates random mail fraud stolen ballots.  You will never get 100% with any system unless you create a DNA database and require live samples with video affidavit with a witness for every vote.  Its all about acceptable risk.  There will always be fraud just like many other crimes, but its not widespread.  I can see it affecting elections if the spread was 100 people,  but not tens of thousands.  The voting system needs some modernization and improvements  But mail in voting is the future.

Posting here from the "evidence of fraud" thread, as this topic seems to have spread here:

Dead (for three years) woman's signature match is valid according to the registrar of voters so her mail-in vote was counted, even though her husband did not receive her ballot at their address.



See the tweet from Richard Grenell with the embedded local news station story:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1326212952148627456

True, we can await the final posting by the government,  but not sure how you expected me to get something that doesn't exist yet,  so I could only link other sources.

Again, missing the point.  He's saying that the media isn't always accurate.  And if you want to post numbers, it should be from a .gov website.  The numbers don't really matter, it's how you found said numbers.

Posting here from the "evidence of fraud" thread, as this topic seems to have spread here:

Dead (for three years) woman's signature match is valid according to the registrar of voters so her mail-in vote was counted, even though her husband did not receive her ballot at their address.



See the tweet from Richard Grenell with the embedded local news station story:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1326212952148627456

This is one person, and was caught.   Appears the system is working.  Does it affect the election?  Is there 20,000 dead people voting?

This is America you don't need proof to do a lawsuit, but you need some to win 

Evidence and proof are not always the same thing.  "Proof" is a judgement call.

Circumstantial evidence is .... evidence.  It's only considered proof of a crime if the judge or jury looks at the evidence in context and weighs it among all the other evidence --both for and against the charged crimes.

This is a short video discussing just 234 pages of affidavits out of the over 10,000 affidavits submitted already.

The actual affidavits:

https://roar-assets-auto.rbl.ms/documents/7487/3.%20EXHIBIT%201%20(affidavits)%20(compressed).pdf

True, we can await the final posting by the government,  but not sure how you expected me to get something that doesn't exist yet,  so I could only link other sources.

But you had NO problems stating things as fact to support your beliefs.  Now when you're getting called out on it, you're defaulting to an excuse. 

The data is actually irrelevant in this case.  Is that you unapologetically make like you know, but you really have no idea. . .