Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why? (Read 9951 times)

drck1000

Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« on: December 05, 2020, 11:35:45 AM »
Do you anneal your rifle brass?  Why? 

Do you do the annealing every reload?  Have you noticed a difference in performance?

Ren's thread on annealing machine got me wondering who here does annealing.  And what practical benefit do you see. 

I've watched many videos and read a lot of forums.  Like anything on forums, the responses run the spectrum.  I get some of the basic concepts and reasonings for it, but none of the folks locally that I've spoken to anneal their cases.  Whether it's too humbug or not worth it, I haven't really gotten to that level of discussion with most of those folks.  Figured I'd ask here. 

ren

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2020, 11:48:38 AM »
I anneal because I wasn't get much life out of LC .223 cases. The necks would develop cracks within 2-3 resizings. I don't know if the expander ball was too aggressive (Lee dies) that was causing this or some other factor. I find that after annealing, cases feel different when running them through a sizing die. I read that there are some benefits on annealing i.e. tighter groups. I haven't tested that factor.
Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2020, 11:57:40 AM »
I anneal because I wasn't get much life out of LC .223 cases. The necks would develop cracks within 2-3 resizings. I don't know if the expander ball was too aggressive (Lee dies) that was causing this or some other factor. I find that after annealing, cases feel different when running them through a sizing die. I read that there are some benefits on annealing i.e. tighter groups. I haven't tested that factor.
Gotcha.  Would you anneal every reload?  Or once every say 2-3? 

Were you neck sizing?  Or full length sizing? 

My buddy does the full length sizing.  He mentioned that one criticism was brass longevity.  We've been discussing trying neck sizing.

The tighter groups was one aspect that I was curious about.  The consistency of neck tension.  I don't think I am anywhere near where I would notice something like that, but more wondering about those who have noticed. 

sa594

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2020, 08:19:25 PM »
Thanks for posting that question drck1000 as I also have been wondering about this.. From what I've read (internet so take it for what it's worth), seems like the frequency that people do anneal varies so any information/experiences that could be shared here will be greatly appreciated...

Rhed

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2020, 05:19:53 AM »
Anneal after every firing
Brass life
Consistency in neck tension and shoulder bump when sizing
Less to no runout after seating ( I don’t know if annealing helps with runout though, it’s around 2 thou to none at all when I check. Though I no check all the time. But then again, I use a chamber die to seat
Lowered es (yea right.. that’s only if I shooting10 rounds of the same reload that counts for me. Not this 5 shot at a time bs.. lol)
And most importantly.. that rainbow color looks cool.. lol



justin1098

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2020, 02:31:03 PM »
Do you anneal your rifle brass?  Why? 
I did anneal my 6mmbr brass every 5 to 7 firings. Propane torch and pan of water method. My purpose was to extend the life of my Lapua brass. Annealing reduces the likely hood of split necks and other fatigue related failures. Loose primer pockets would signal end of life of my 6br brass. I always full length resize and when I am trying to produce accurate ammo, I use bushing dies with no expander.
I don't bother annealing 223, 300BLK, 308, 30 carbine or 30-06. Maybe if I was buying Lapua bra$$, I would, but not after every firing.


Do you do the annealing every reload?  Have you noticed a difference in performance?
No, you don't need to anneal after every firing. Annealing can improve your brass resizing consistency. In my case, I was using really good brass with tight chamber and minimum resizing, so I didn't see degradation in the first five firings.

Annealing is one of those things that if you have to do, do it. Otherwise it is either tedious and possibly painful (burnt fingers) or expensive and probably tedious to set up. If your not splitting necks or shooting benchrest, your time and money is better spent on something else. If you really want to see for yourself, get a torch and do it the cheap way.

Dolomite

Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2020, 05:27:44 PM »
This is interesting info...

Neck tension



Annealing

« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 08:38:33 PM by Dolomite »

Rocky

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2020, 06:12:30 PM »
Gee, thanks fro the extra "rabbit holes". :shake: :shake: :shake:

    Was interesting to see best moa results were at our best fps, 2500 fps (until he went "over").
Then again he was using 175gr  vs our 168 gr but still noteworthy.

    I only full size .308 brass not fired out of our one particular .308 rifle, after that I neck size only after it's been fired out of that rifle.
I have had one split case in 5 yrs
I don't think I have 5-7 reloads on our brass so I'll save the burnt fingers for now.
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Dolomite

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2020, 07:52:11 PM »
some good info on this website, extremely technical info.

https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2020, 09:02:39 AM »
Thanks for posting that question drck1000 as I also have been wondering about this.. From what I've read (internet so take it for what it's worth), seems like the frequency that people do anneal varies so any information/experiences that could be shared here will be greatly appreciated...
That's why I started this thread (and others), which is to share experiences.  A wealth of information and experience here. 

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2020, 09:05:40 AM »
Anneal after every firing
Brass life
Consistency in neck tension and shoulder bump when sizing
Less to no runout after seating ( I don’t know if annealing helps with runout though, it’s around 2 thou to none at all when I check. Though I no check all the time. But then again, I use a chamber die to seat
Lowered es (yea right.. that’s only if I shooting10 rounds of the same reload that counts for me. Not this 5 shot at a time bs.. lol)
And most importantly.. that rainbow color looks cool.. lol
The neck tension thing was also something I've been reading/watching about bullet seating.  How some benchrest folks purposely load long and then the chambering does the final seating.  All interesting things, but key point was context.  Since if you ever have to open your bolt after that round is chambered, the "chamber for final seating" will end up with a stuck bullet.  (all interewebz info though)

10 shot tests huh?   :o  ;D

Looking cool is always a  :thumbsup:

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2020, 09:08:42 AM »

I did anneal my 6mmbr brass every 5 to 7 firings. Propane torch and pan of water method. My purpose was to extend the life of my Lapua brass. Annealing reduces the likely hood of split necks and other fatigue related failures. Loose primer pockets would signal end of life of my 6br brass. I always full length resize and when I am trying to produce accurate ammo, I use bushing dies with no expander.
I don't bother annealing 223, 300BLK, 308, 30 carbine or 30-06. Maybe if I was buying Lapua bra$$, I would, but not after every firing.


No, you don't need to anneal after every firing. Annealing can improve your brass resizing consistency. In my case, I was using really good brass with tight chamber and minimum resizing, so I didn't see degradation in the first five firings.

Annealing is one of those things that if you have to do, do it. Otherwise it is either tedious and possibly painful (burnt fingers) or expensive and probably tedious to set up. If your not splitting necks or shooting benchrest, your time and money is better spent on something else. If you really want to see for yourself, get a torch and do it the cheap way.
Awesome!  Another perspective.  Thanks!  :shaka:

Why only Lapua brass for 6 mmbr?  Is that your precision rifle caliber of choice?

I'm just starting my reloading venture.  So I'm not too worried about the uber precision or neck splitting.  I mean I want to have better precision and want brass to last, but first steps first. 

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2020, 09:09:21 AM »
Gee, thanks fro the extra "rabbit holes". :shake: :shake: :shake:

    Was interesting to see best moa results were at our best fps, 2500 fps (until he went "over").
Then again he was using 175gr  vs our 168 gr but still noteworthy.

    I only full size .308 brass not fired out of our one particular .308 rifle, after that I neck size only after it's been fired out of that rifle.
I have had one split case in 5 yrs
I don't think I have 5-7 reloads on our brass so I'll save the burnt fingers for now.
Welcome to the precision rifle "rabbit hole". . .  :shake:

 :rofl:

Dolomite

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2020, 11:14:26 AM »

Dolomite

Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2020, 01:10:13 PM »
Anyone neck turn brass for a factory chamber? Why or why not? Any measurable results?

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2020, 01:18:00 PM »
Anyone neck turn brass for a factory chamber? Why or why not? Any measurable results?

Also if experience or feedback is specific to bolt guns or semi-autos.

My context is bolt guns, but understand lots of folks also pursuing for semi-autos. 

Dolomite

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2020, 01:55:55 PM »
Also if experience or feedback is specific to bolt guns or semi-autos.

My context is bolt guns, but understand lots of folks also pursuing for semi-autos.
Sorry question was pertaining to bolt guns.   

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2020, 02:02:42 PM »
Sorry question was pertaining to bolt guns.
All good.  At least we not boring like macsak. . .  :rofl:

justin1098

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2020, 03:32:24 PM »
Awesome!  Another perspective.  Thanks!  :shaka:

Why only Lapua brass for 6 mmbr?  Is that your precision rifle caliber of choice?

I'm just starting my reloading venture.  So I'm not too worried about the uber precision or neck splitting.  I mean I want to have better precision and want brass to last, but first steps first.

Yes, 6mm Benchrest is the cartridge for my benchrest rifle. I used Lapua brass because it's the best but also the most expensive. If you can make it last, it becomes some of the cheapest.
THe rifle is a savage 12 benchrest with a Shilen barrel bedded with devcon. 6mmbr is a great cartridge for absolute accuracy out to 600 yards and there was a website and forum dedicated to 6mmbr. They since changed to https://www.accurateshooter.com/ check it out. You can find the answers you are looking for there, but beware. Benchrest shooters will do things for the tiniest accuracy advantage (real or imagined)

I got a bench rest rifle to experiment with loading to see what i could accomplish, accuracy wise. It was a fun experience. I learned that you got to have a good platform to start with. I learned how to bed a action/barrel. I learned that you have to have a custom hand lapped barrel. The best production barrel can't come close. I learned that consistency is everything. EVERYTHING! I learned that match grade is a word that gets thrown around a lot but doesn't mean anything.

drck1000

Re: Annealing Rifle Brass - Do you do it? Why?
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2020, 04:18:34 PM »
Yes, 6mm Benchrest is the cartridge for my benchrest rifle. I used Lapua brass because it's the best but also the most expensive. If you can make it last, it becomes some of the cheapest.
THe rifle is a savage 12 benchrest with a Shilen barrel bedded with devcon. 6mmbr is a great cartridge for absolute accuracy out to 600 yards and there was a website and forum dedicated to 6mmbr. They since changed to https://www.accurateshooter.com/ check it out. You can find the answers you are looking for there, but beware. Benchrest shooters will do things for the tiniest accuracy advantage (real or imagined)

I got a bench rest rifle to experiment with loading to see what i could accomplish, accuracy wise. It was a fun experience. I learned that you got to have a good platform to start with. I learned how to bed a action/barrel. I learned that you have to have a custom hand lapped barrel. The best production barrel can't come close. I learned that consistency is everything. EVERYTHING! I learned that match grade is a word that gets thrown around a lot but doesn't mean anything.

Further down the rabbit hole I got?   ;D  Haha, nah

Yeah, I've read good things about Lapua brass.  Thanks to an awesomely cool 2a member, I have Lapua brass for my .308. 

I did some reading of at accurateshooter website.  IF (or when) get around to building a custom gun top to bottom, I have a lot of good info.  Understood on the benchrest shooter things.  I'm not into benchrest shooting, but had read some about it.  Like any other forum, there's bickering amongst groups and benchrest vs PRS vs hunters seems to be a common one.  Nothing against any, just different interests and priorities.  Similar to one of my shooting buddies.  He's all about hunting, so light gun, light barrel, etc.  He poopoos on me and another buddy with our heavier profile barrels, heavier stock or chassis, etc.  To me, all good.  Just fun to be shooting. 

Understand what you are saying about the experiment.  Good to know what a platform is capable of.  I am nowhere near that, but I'm an experienced enough shooter to at least suspect when equipment is hindering.  Like that damn Hogue stock on my Rem 700.  But along those lines, it's amazing at stuff like quality of scales, calipers, etc that folks get into.  I'm not spending over $500 on a scale!  But then I'll spend $$$ on glass though.  Haha