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Black powder rifle on maui (Read 4951 times)

bojanglez

Black powder rifle on maui
« on: February 18, 2021, 08:54:18 PM »
i was looking at getting my first muzzleloader on maui. just a basic one for hunting.  Im pretty sure i can just get it shipped to my house if im correct but what issues will i have in terms of getting muzzleloading supplies on maui? iis it a huge pain to get powder and bullets? I don;t want to hoard anything I just want to get started and go on a couple hunts with it. Western muzzleloader odds are a whole lot better than rifle.
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MauiAxis

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 07:23:01 AM »
I have muzzleloaders on Maui. Getting bullets is easy and you can get them mailed here. They are just inert chunks of copper, no restrictions.

The powder cannot be mailed, but at least one of the gun stores here in Wailuku, Maui Ammo and Guns (MAGS) carries a reasonable selection of different powders.   And guns, ammo and etc for that matter.

You can transport all of that back and forth to Lanai on the ferry very easily if you wish to hunt there.   Just dont fly anywhere with powder.
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groveler

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 07:34:26 AM »
As far as I know you cannot get black powder in Hawaii, you can only get synthetic, it doesn't last very long
so it is useless to hoard.  I ordered the materials to make my own black powder, so I will have a supply.
An aside you can also make some awesome fireworks, if you wish to be a pirate.
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OldMose

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 08:11:19 AM »
Quote from: groveler on February 19, 2021, 07:34:26 AM
  I ordered the materials to make my own black powder, so I will have a supply.


Hau wood, (just the wood part), and paulownia is good.   
Balsa is good for pan powder (4F).  Imho.   Store bought
powder is best; I don't make powder (anymore).    :shaka:
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changemyoil66

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 12:12:27 PM »
Be wary of SB307 which makes any 50cal or bigger illegal with no grandfather clause.  So far the amended bill that excludes shotguns has not been released or voted on yet.
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bojanglez

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2021, 06:20:23 AM »
thanks everyone. figured if it was as easy as ordering online and buying poweder at the store id go for it but looks like i'd still need to get a permit to acquire and its a bit more of a hassle than i was anticipating for so i will probably pass for now
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mrgaf

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2021, 08:18:29 AM »
Quote from: bojanglez on February 20, 2021, 06:20:23 AM
thanks everyone. figured if it was as easy as ordering online and buying poweder at the store id go for it but looks like i'd still need to get a permit to acquire and its a bit more of a hassle than i was anticipating for so i will probably pass for now

Unless the law has changed in the last couple of months, you do not need to register black powder rifles or shotguns. FFL is not required and they can be shipped/mailed directly to you. I just bought two in and they were delivered by USPS!  :shaka:
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Tom_G

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2021, 08:40:44 AM »
Quote from: https://www.hawaiipolice.com/services/firearm-registration
Registration is not required for firearms designed to fire loose black powder and for firearms manufactured before 1899, but permits are required.
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The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

mrgaf

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2021, 06:13:50 PM »
Quote from: Tom_G on February 20, 2021, 08:40:44 AM


Hmmmm but my question is how would HPD know if you took possession of a black powder firearm if no registration is required? Sounds like another useless law that is pretty much toothless. My 1858 Remington Army replica is coming in Monday. >:D
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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

Tom_G

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2021, 11:25:34 AM »
Quote from: mrgaf on February 20, 2021, 06:13:50 PM
Hmmmm but my question is how would HPD know if you took possession of a black powder firearm if no registration is required? Sounds like another useless law that is pretty much toothless. My 1858 Remington Army replica is coming in Monday. >:D

That is a fair question! Also, by the letter of the law, if you were buying a BP pistol, to get a permit, you'd need the serial number ahead of time. With a mail-order outfit, I'm not even sure that's possible.
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The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

groveler

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2021, 08:01:00 AM »
Quote from: Tom_G on February 21, 2021, 11:25:34 AM
That is a fair question! Also, by the letter of the law, if you were buying a BP pistol, to get a permit, you'd need the serial number ahead of time. With a mail-order outfit, I'm not even sure that's possible.
Piracy and smuggling are American as apple pie!
Arg c, Arg v,
Maties.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2021, 12:23:29 PM »
Quote from: Tom_G on February 21, 2021, 11:25:34 AM
That is a fair question! Also, by the letter of the law, if you were buying a BP pistol, to get a permit, you'd need the serial number ahead of time. With a mail-order outfit, I'm not even sure that's possible.

Yes, if you need a permit to acquire, you have to wait for the firearm to be received by your FFL.  They in turn send paperwork to HPD.  If you try to start the application early, IF HPD lets you without the FFL paperwork, you run the risk of the serial number or some other details being wrong.  That will void the application, and you have to start over anyway.

Registration for black powder firearms is not required:
Quote
§134-3  Registration, mandatory, exceptions.
   :
(d)  Registration shall not be required for:
   ;
(1)  Any device that is designed to fire loose black powder or that is a firearm manufactured before 1899;
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm

Be cautious that the firearm hasn't been upgraded to allow for black powder cartridges.  That voids the exception.

And, if the firearm qualifies as a C&R item (listed by the ATF specifically or is more than 50 years old), you do not need a permit to acquire if you have an FFL-03 collector's license.

I bought a Nagant M1895 revolver on my C&R license.  Had it shipped directly to my house.  No PTA or FFL/Dealer was required.

I was, however, required to register.  They wanted me to have a Long Gun permit, which I did.  No pistol permit -- no 2 week wait.  Showed them the paperwork and the pistol, left with the registration form.

So, if you do it right, you should be allowed to buy and keep a C&R-qualified black powder firearm with NO PERMIT TO ACQUIRE, and NO REGISTRATION.

That's my view on it.  I'm not a lawyer nor an expert in Hawaii law, but this seems like what the law allows.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

MauiAxis

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2021, 01:04:27 PM »
I have two muzzleloaders on Maui and I was required to register both of them here. The variability in the interpretation of the law between counties is surprising and it is consistently different. 
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Black powder rifle on maui
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2021, 01:38:28 PM »
Quote from: MauiAxis on February 22, 2021, 01:04:27 PM
I have two muzzleloaders on Maui and I was required to register both of them here. The variability in the interpretation of the law between counties is surprising and it is consistently different.

If you ask any given officer working the firearms desk at any station, you're likely to get a variety of answers.

The default answer will be to do what makes their job easier, and which causes you the most trouble.

The law is as I posted it.  If they tell you different, ask for them to SHOW YOU where in the law what they told you is written.

Black powder muzzle loaders are an unusual situation for most newer officers.  They are going to treat you like any new firearms owner.  It's up to you/us to find the facts and educate them most times.

When I went to register my C&R revolver, I made sure to have all my ducks in a row.  I didn't want a disagreement.  I had my facts and documentation.  They did everything exactly as I was told by the Firearms Section expert (Suzie?) it should be.

If I were you, I'd put the police on notice that they are not following the law.  Then, I'd tell them to destroy the registrations for the rifles or face a lawsuit for violating the rights of firearm owners.  Telling you you're required to register was a direct violation.

That's just me, though!  You still have to live there.   :geekdanc: :shaka:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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