"around"

Rounded up of course. 

Ah shit, now im into the 9 vs. 45 debate. Never paid much attention to it b4.

I think the main kicker is mag capacity, which is moot in HI.

I think basically, use for home defense what u want to and can shoot well. So if 22 is what u can use well, use that. Cause u are responsible for every missed shot.

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I thought you ordered a 45 already. What's your handle?

"Changemymind66x"?

Do you really believe your wife or girlfriend when they tell you "size doesn't matter?"

I thought you ordered a 45 already. What's your handle?

"Changemymind66x"?

Do you really believe your wife or girlfriend when they tell you "size doesn't matter?"

I did. Eta 6-10 weeks. Mags came in.

Been learning more about 1911s and the great debate popped up.

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Ah shit, now im into the 9 vs. 45 debate. Never paid much attention to it b4.

I think the main kicker is mag capacity, which is moot in HI.

I think basically, use for home defense what u want to and can shoot well. So if 22 is what u can use well, use that. Cause u are responsible for every missed shot.

Uh, where have you been?  Or maybe a #nofocus situation?   

But seriously, I think you generally got it.  I think there’s a couple of 45 vs 9 threads on here, as well as on many gun forums.  Add into the mix the fotay.  I personally own them all and see the benefits of each. 

I did. Eta 6-10 weeks. Mags came in.

Been learning more about 1911s and the great debate popped up.

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Changeyourmindoil?  Haha.  As an aside, since you and Mrs. Oil already have 9s, there are many good choices/options for 1911.  I have a RIA 1911 in 9.  Dunno the going rate these days, but mid $300 to $500 was readily available.  The only changes I wanted was for a different front sight. 

Ah shit, now im into the 9 vs. 45 debate. Never paid much attention to it b4.

I think the main kicker is mag capacity, which is moot in HI.

I think basically, use for home defense what u want to and can shoot well. So if 22 is what u can use well, use that. Cause u are responsible for every missed shot.

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45 was your first choice. Go with that. First choice is probably what you really want
Like you said in hawaii we have the 10 round limit, so capacity really isn't an issue here
45 in a 1911 platform is very controllable. Maybe 9mm is more controllable but for home defense you'll get back on target fast enough. Maybe if you're competition shooting you want as fast as can be, but defensive shooting I dont think it's a deal breaker
I am a traditionalist, 1911 is made for 45acp bc America 🇺🇸

I actually may use the 1911 as my HD once everything is up and running.  Been watching ballistic HP test with 45 Gold Dot or Federal HST.  Testing HD ammo that I plan to use will be buku dollahs.  And see which I'm more accurate with, 9 vs. 45.

1 thing that bothered me about 9mm Gold Dot or FST is that the penetration in the gel are both around 16 inches. Which is an acceptable standard.  The issue is that I live in a condo, so besides the load bearing concrete pillars, everything else is drywall.  So  for a center mass, perfectly standing target, that;'s only like 8 inches of things the HP would go thru.  Granted the gel test often don't factor in bone, I think that a 9mm would still over penetrate for my situation.

The exception is a 9mm in less than 100gr, like 96gr. Then it's like 11 inches.  But those are harder to come by in HI.

With the 45 HP, the average that was on YT is about 13 inches in gel for Gold Dot or FST.

So since the above mentioned mag cap, the real downside would be the confiscation for evidence of an expensive pistol.  And not like a VP9 that can be re-purchased easier and for cheaper.

I lost the link, but Lucky GUnner had an entire webpage of various HD ammo and it's gel vids.  It was saved on my old phone.  Haven't googled it yet.

So since the above mentioned mag cap, the real downside would be the confiscation for evidence of an expensive pistol.  And not like a VP9 that can be re-purchased easier and for cheaper.

good point. my HD is my XDm in 45acp.  much cheaper to replace than a more expensive 1911

1) I actually may use the 1911 as my HD once everything is up and running.  Been watching ballistic HP test with 45 Gold Dot or Federal HST.  Testing HD ammo that I plan to use will be buku dollahs.  And see which I'm more accurate with, 9 vs. 45.

SNIP

2) I lost the link, but Lucky GUnner had an entire webpage of various HD ammo and it's gel vids.  It was saved on my old phone.  Haven't googled it yet.

1) Why are you leaning toward 1911 as HD primary?  Seems like you have a lot of time/rounds with your VP9.  I guess once you get up and running with M45A1, it will be interesting to see how you shoot them side-by-side. 

2) There are a bunch.  I recall a few where the guy put together an interesting test with animal ribs (I think it was pork) over some inner test medium, and I think with clothes.  Not saying that is the true indicator/test, but I thought it was pretty interesting. 

So since the above mentioned mag cap, the real downside would be the confiscation for evidence of an expensive pistol.  And not like a VP9 that can be re-purchased easier and for cheaper.

Not to stray off topic, but there's a lot more shit you'll be thinking about other than the $1700ish handgun that you had to turn in for evidence.

overthinking (as usual)
the chances of you being in a self defense situation in your condo is redonkulously low

I actually may use the 1911 as my HD once everything is up and running.  Been watching ballistic HP test with 45 Gold Dot or Federal HST.  Testing HD ammo that I plan to use will be buku dollahs.  And see which I'm more accurate with, 9 vs. 45.

1 thing that bothered me about 9mm Gold Dot or FST is that the penetration in the gel are both around 16 inches. Which is an acceptable standard.  The issue is that I live in a condo, so besides the load bearing concrete pillars, everything else is drywall.  So  for a center mass, perfectly standing target, that;'s only like 8 inches of things the HP would go thru.  Granted the gel test often don't factor in bone, I think that a 9mm would still over penetrate for my situation.

The exception is a 9mm in less than 100gr, like 96gr. Then it's like 11 inches.  But those are harder to come by in HI.

With the 45 HP, the average that was on YT is about 13 inches in gel for Gold Dot or FST.

So since the above mentioned mag cap, the real downside would be the confiscation for evidence of an expensive pistol.  And not like a VP9 that can be re-purchased easier and for cheaper.

I lost the link, but Lucky GUnner had an entire webpage of various HD ammo and it's gel vids.  It was saved on my old phone.  Haven't googled it yet.

Not to stray off topic, but there's a lot more shit you'll be thinking about other than the $1700ish handgun that you had to turn in for evidence.

this^

U know once the gerbil wheel start spinning, what happens. Super duper focus!

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Not to stray off topic, but there's a lot more shit you'll be thinking about other than the $1700ish handgun that you had to turn in for evidence.

Truth.  Same when folks mentioned that IF I ever had to turn in my Gucci Glock.  As long as it is the best tool I have to defend myself/friends/loved ones, that's the main thing. 

overthinking (as usual)
the chances of you being in a self defense situation in your condo is redonkulously low

He better invest in tactical bibadees den. . .

U know once the gerbil wheel start spinning, what happens. Super duper focus!

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Make extra sure you color coordinate your holster, pouches, etc with the gun. . . 

 

Make extra sure you color coordinate your holster, pouches, etc with the gun. . . 

 

TBH I am.  Getting the brown Safariland.  This way I no mix up the VP9 (black) and this one.  Gotta be matchy matchy too.

I tried the double stack Esstac Kywi and it would fall out when running. But my G-Code mag pouch works (bungee style).  So gonna also order some single stack Kywi pouches next.

I was gonna put off more of the accessories (blem sales or black friday), but due to the shipping thing going on, i might order sooner than later.  With the exception is the holster, just in case the gun doesn't come in and I gotta change models. 

TBH I am.  Getting the brown Safariland.  This way I no mix up the VP9 (black) and this one.  Gotta be matchy matchy too.

I tried the double stack Esstac Kywi and it would fall out when running. But my G-Code mag pouch works (bungee style).  So gonna also order some single stack Kywi pouches next.

I was gonna put off more of the accessories (blem sales or black friday), but due to the shipping thing going on, i might order sooner than later.  With the exception is the holster, just in case the gun doesn't come in and I gotta change models.

Don't they have VP9 in FDE.  But might not be same shade as the M45A1.  Does the various shades of FDE on the SCAR bother you?   

SKD is running a 10% off sale right now. They usually have a lot of ESSTAC stuff, as well as sometimes SKD exclusive stuff. 

Ordered in FDE. Thanks for the info. CAme out to $28 vs $30 and no need pay extra $3 for the molle clips that Esstac charges for.

Ordered in FDE. Thanks for the info. CAme out to $28 vs $30 and no need pay extra $3 for the molle clips that Esstac charges for.

The clips that came with the ESSTAC pouches I ordered from SKD were junk, or at least didn't work well with my belt.  There were two options to choose, and I don't remember which one I got, but it was the one with side cuts.  Anyways, my belt has two rows of molle and has to go around the inner belt since the molle outer fabric is light.  Since the malice clips were for (3) rows, it ended up slipping.  It seemed fine when testing around the house, but didn't work out that well in the next class I took.  I ended up securing it with a bit of string.  I ordered some other malice clips (can't remember the name of the company), but haven't tried them yet, but they aren't as flimsy as the ones that I got from SKD.  Those clips aren't very expensive, so I didn't really mind.  That said I now have extras if anyone needs. 

The clips that came with the ESSTAC pouches I ordered from SKD were junk, or at least didn't work well with my belt.  There were two options to choose, and I don't remember which one I got, but it was the one with side cuts.  Anyways, my belt has two rows of molle and has to go around the inner belt since the molle outer fabric is light.  Since the malice clips were for (3) rows, it ended up slipping.  It seemed fine when testing around the house, but didn't work out that well in the next class I took.  I ended up securing it with a bit of string.  I ordered some other malice clips (can't remember the name of the company), but haven't tried them yet, but they aren't as flimsy as the ones that I got from SKD.  Those clips aren't very expensive, so I didn't really mind.  That said I now have extras if anyone needs.

I think I get where you're coming from. The ones SKD has that's free, there are 2 heights. Long and short. Sounds like you got the longer ones (3 rows).  I ordered the short ones (2 rows).  I'll try use the ones that come in with the pouch, if not I'll just swap the ones I have for my double stack mags and order the better ones later.  Since I won't be carrying 2 different mag carriers on my belt at 1 time (single and double stack).

https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Tailor-Malice-Inches-Folded/dp/B086TY2NC9/ref=sr_1_20?dchild=1&keywords=malice+clips&qid=1633387135&sr=8-20

These are the ones that my double stack Kywi came with from the Esstac website. But did cost $3 extra to the order.

I won't have to go around my inner belt, cause my molle fabric is thick and tight to the belt (Blue Alpha Warrior Poet brand).

Esstac does sell the strap, and isn't too expensive at $2 each.  But then add in $8 shipping. I mean, can't they just put it in an envelope with a $51 cent stamp?  So might as well order Amazon.