According to OG, American Indians (Native Americans) didn't exist until the Constitution was ratified. 

Without government, nothing exists (including individual rights).

They were not Americans.   We defeated them in wars and they eventually became Americans.   Rights are defined by government.   

They were not Americans.   We defeated them in wars and they eventually became Americans.   Rights are defined by government.

I just have to jump in this one.
"Rights are defined by government."
Wrong!
Rights are defined by God
and are inalienable.
 

I just have to jump in this one.
"Rights are defined by government."
Wrong!
Rights are defined by God
and are inalienable.
 

nope, omni deems it so, so he is NOT wrong...

I just have to jump in this one.
"Rights are defined by government."
Wrong!
Rights are defined by God
and are inalienable.
 

I wasn't going to respond, because he's gone down this stupid road before.

Obviously he learns nothing if it opposes his own beliefs.

Can't teach a pig how to sing.  Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

He spends too much time on Liberal/Leftist/Progressive/Socialist forums and websites getting this BS drilled into him and validated.  Then he comes here to "set us all straight".

You can't build a solid house on a weak foundation.  He doesn't get the basics of where freedom comes from, so everything else he argues about stems from that skewed line of thinking.

 

Isnt the bill of rights designed to tell the gov what they cannot do? And not what they allow u which rights to have?

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I just have to jump in this one.
"Rights are defined by government."
Wrong!
Rights are defined by God
and are inalienable.
 

Lol.  Can't prove it.   Which God?  What if there is no God, do we have no rights?

Now its clear that you are here to troll. Just stop. Whether you believe in God or not that is your own personal belief. Don't attack other people's faith. Grow up and just stop this behavior. Enough already. You are beyond being the point of just being disliked.

Now its clear that you are here to troll. Just stop. Whether you believe in God or not that is your own personal belief. Don't attack other people's faith.

He's trying to say rights come from a God.  And impose those beliefs on others and me.   I will challenge him.   

He's trying to say rights come from a God.  And impose those beliefs on others and me.   I will challenge him.

i don't think you understand the word "impose"...

Lol.  Can't prove it.   Which God?  What if there is no God, do we have no rights?

Most people can read plain English.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed
by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the
pursuit of Happiness.

Whether you believe in God as your creator, nature, or whatever else, it doesn't matter.  "Unalienable" is what matters.

Definition of unalienable
: impossible to take away or give up : INALIENABLE

Your rights exist even in the absence of government.  If you were marooned on an island in the middle of the Pacific under no country's jurisdiction, your right to self defense (i.e. life) still exists.  Your right to not be enslaved or oppressed (i.e. Liberty) still exists.

We've taught you this in the past, but here you are still arguing basics fundamental principles upon which the US was created.

Lol.  Can't prove it.   Which God?  What if there is no God, do we have no rights?

If I told you I have a new EV for you -- a top of the line Tesla -- because God came to me in a dream and told me you need one -- would you turn it down on principle, since a god that doesn't exist can't tell me to give you a car?

I think your refusal to acknowledge the possible existence of God in any form is what keeps you from having a rational idea in your head concerning rights.  You don't have to believe in God to believe in individual rights and liberty any more than you have to believe that a tree falling the woods makes a sound if no one hears it.  Or that gravity exists even though no one can see, touch, taste or hear it.

Regardless of how anyone describes these ideals, they are all saying the same thing.  These rights exist for everyone no matter what government says.  If gov't controls the press and only gives out government-approved propaganda, they are VIOLATING your right to free speech.  They are not taking that right away, but rather infringing on it.

It might be a distinction without a difference in your mind, but when people have had enough and fight for their rights, they aren'y fighting for something that doesn't exist.  They are fighting against suppression of their god-given rights.

Whether you believe in God as your creator, nature, or whatever else, it doesn't matter.  "Unalienable" is what matters.

Definition of unalienable
: impossible to take away or give up : INALIENABLE

Your rights exist even in the absence of government.  If you were marooned on an island in the middle of the Pacific under no country's jurisdiction, your right to self defense (i.e. life) still exists.  Your right to not be enslaved or oppressed (i.e. Liberty) still exists.

So if someone can take away your right not to be a slave (Liberty) or defend yourself (life) it’s not an inalienable right ?
Impossible to take away or give up….by your definition.
Try thinking and not googling for once.

At that point what good is your “inalienable” right (which was taken away, so not inalienable)?
That’s why we have the Constitution which was created by Government.
And it gave us the Right to make sure the Governement doesn’t take away those Rights. (Theoretically)

‘MERICA !

So if someone can take away your right not to be a slave (Liberty) or defend yourself (life) it’s not an inalienable right ?
Impossible to take away or give up….by your definition.
Try thinking and not googling for once.

At that point what good is your “inalienable” right (which was taken away, so not inalienable)?
That’s why we have the Constitution which was created by Government.
And it gave us the Right to make sure the Governement doesn’t take away those Rights. (Theoretically)

‘MERICA !

The RIGHT is not  taken away.  It's INFRINGED UPON.

If I put a blindfold on you, did I take away your sight?  Or did I just stop you from using your sight?

Ever hear of the Second Amendment?  It protects the people's right to defend themselves from government oppression.

The Constitution's Bill of Rights says more about what gov't can not do than how we can exercise our rights.

You need to stop having sex with OG.  The effects may not be reversible.

He's trying to say rights come from a God.  And impose those beliefs on others and me.   I will challenge him.

This has already been explained to you. Whether you are uncomfortable or not with the word god is irrelevant. The point is that these rights come from something beyond man. We are born with it. Now I am not religious yet I can  understand the wisdom of our ancestors to say our rights come from “god”. If they come from something beyond man like “god” it is not within the domain of man to take those rights away.

Stop playing stupid and stop being dishonest by using religion as your way to strawman your way through discussion. I rarely see religion being brought up as a way to justify any type of policy yet you like to bring it up as though religious fanatics are littered throughout this site.

Since dummy is dumb, and vehemently anti-religious and doesn't know diddly or squat about the founding of the country or the people who did it. It might be worth pointing out the Founding Father were NOT religious conservatives, they were thinkers who studied the philosophies of the age of Enlightenment.

When referencing God they qualified it as Nature's God. Washington attended church but didn't participate in communion. He didn't think much of ritual or allegiance to faith.

Jefferson actually spent the time to rewrite the Bible and take out the things he felt were superstitious and nonsense. He didn't believe in Jesus being divine, didn't believe in the Ressurection, but did believe the guy had important life advice.

They understood that religion was most importantly about teaching morality and less about miracles and faith.

You don't have to believe Gautama Siddhartha was an immaculate conception from a White Elephant to believe the things the Buddha said about life are pretty valid observations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible


https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-god-of-the-founding-fathers-natures-god.html

This has already been explained to you. Whether you are uncomfortable or not with the word god is irrelevant. The point is that these rights come from something beyond man. We are born with it. Now I am not religious yet I can  understand the wisdom of our ancestors to say our rights come from “god”. If they come from something beyond man like “god” it is not within the domain of man to take those rights away.

Stop playing stupid and stop being dishonest by using religion as your way to strawman your way through discussion. I rarely see religion being brought up as a way to justify any type of policy yet you like to bring it up as though religious fanatics are littered throughout this site.

The problem with that is every human has different ideas of rights and who should get what.   That's why the government defines them.   The people uphold them.   And those rights are protected.  Without it there is only chaos.  The issue with associating a higher being in deciding rights is that there are many religions.  All different, all deciding different rights.  For example muslims have less rights for women.   

This has already been explained to you. Whether you are uncomfortable or not with the word god is irrelevant. The point is that these rights come from something beyond man. We are born with it. Now I am not religious yet I can  understand the wisdom of our ancestors to say our rights come from “god”. If they come from something beyond man like “god” it is not within the domain of man to take those rights away.

Stop playing stupid and stop being dishonest by using religion as your way to strawman your way through discussion. I rarely see religion being brought up as a way to justify any type of policy yet you like to bring it up as though religious fanatics are littered throughout this site.

AMEN!

The problem with that is every human has different ideas of rights and who should get what.   That's why the government defines them.   The people uphold them.   And those rights are protected.  Without it there is only chaos.  The issue with associating a higher being in deciding rights is that there are many religions.  All different, all deciding different rights.  For example muslims have less rights for women.

You're lecturing on religion again?!  You don't have the credentials, experience or smarts to lecture anyone about religion.  That would be like Biden lecturing on respecting personal space.

There's a difference between government defining the parameters of rights versus deciding if the right exists.

Rights are not a "Religion" or "God" debate.  It's an individual freedom versus government control debate.  What's your opinion when gov't oppresses the people by taking away right to privacy, right to speak freely, right to due process, and right to keep and bear arms?  Are you going to sit back, open another root beer, and say, "I'm good with that.  I trust the government."??

You're lecturing on religion again?!  You don't have the credentials, experience or smarts to lecture anyone about religion.  That would be like Biden lecturing on respecting personal space.

There's a difference between government defining the parameters of rights versus deciding if the right exists.

Rights are not a "Religion" or "God" debate.  It's an individual freedom versus government control debate.  What's your opinion when gov't oppresses the people by taking away right to privacy, right to speak freely, right to due process, and right to keep and bear arms?  Are you going to sit back, open another root beer, and say, "I'm good with that.  I trust the government."??

Nope that's when you change the government.   Either via political change,  via voting etc.  If that's not possible then through civil war similar to our forefathers.  Or leaving for another country.   

Nope that's when you change the government.   Either via political change,  via voting etc.  If that's not possible then through civil war similar to our forefathers.  Or leaving for another country.

What?  I thought you trusted government, and that you had no rights other than what the government tells you?  Are you saying you have rights even if the government tries to take them away?

Not all governments are "for the people, by the people."  Even those that are supposed to be often make decisions that are not inline with that premise.

If the government takes over the election process, uses coercion to quash political speech, confiscates guns and takes over the press, it'll be too late to fight a civil war.

One of the first things Castro did after becoming the Cuban president was have everyone register their firearms.  Shortly after, he confiscated all the guns.  At that point, use of force was not a viable option to remove the dictator.  All political means were also removed, as he took the country down the Socialist/Communist road.  Elections did not include President on the ballot.

People opting to leave the country were shot or their boats sunk.  Not everyone who tried to leave and brave the open ocean for the US made it.  The US is pretty open when it comes to political refugees.  Name another country that would let hundreds of thousands of political refugees from the US invade their country without a proper passport or visa.

It always sounds simple when you don't think about what you're saying/writing.