someone who strives to speak as carefully as you do should have not done that...

Perhaps, but you don't know what you don't know until someone shows you.

I will look up "infection fatality rate" but what point are you getting at?

For anyone wanting to read the difference between CFR and IFR
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19

Perhaps, but you don't know what you don't know until someone shows you.

I will look up "infection fatality rate" but what point are you getting at?

For anyone wanting to read the difference between CFR and IFR
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19

i am getting at several things
you stated 1.6% as if 1.6% people who are infected by sars-cov2 die
you need to understand that the definition of "cases" was changed in 2020 to ONLY include positive tests
cases were previously defined as people who have tested positive AND showed symptoms
so the people that compare CFR of say the spanish flu to covid19 are not apples to apples
in addition the number of people "infected" by the virus is thought to be at least 4-10 times the amount of positive tests
also, as explained in your link, the CFR varies by time
the CFR is now much lower because we now know more about treatments and medications (and leaving out the whole hcq/ivm thing)

tldr- you cannot just throw out "1.6%" as evidence of how dangerous this virus is...

i am getting at several things
you stated 1.6% as if 1.6% people who are infected by sars-cov2 die
you need to understand that the definition of "cases" was changed in 2020 to ONLY include positive tests
cases were previously defined as people who have tested positive AND showed symptoms
so the people that compare CFR of say the spanish flu to covid19 are not apples to apples
in addition the number of people "infected" by the virus is thought to be at least 4-10 times the amount of positive tests
also, as explained in your link, the CFR varies by time
the CFR is now much lower because we now know more about treatments and medications (and leaving out the whole hcq/ivm thing)

tldr- you cannot just throw out "1.6%" as evidence of how dangerous this virus is...

I think the CFR is used because it is an easier number to know where as the IFR has to presume how many cases there were based on other data. Its hard to know how many cases are simply unreported though there are probably a few ways you could look at other things to try and estimate the total cases. For example look at the rates when you have a testing surge or if they tested for antibodies.

I do take your point that a CFR could be misleading because it depends on test rates. Ex: if you only tested dead bodies then the CFR would seem like 100%. So if we assume that the actual number of infections was significantly higher than the documented case infections that would mean the CFR rate would most likely be higher than the true number. If the number of actual infections were twice what they were believed then this would mean a 0.8% IFR.

According to this meta study which looked at numbers from smaller studies around the country they found IFRs around America ranging from 0.2% to about 1.3% depending on location.

Honestly, since we have a vaccine and I am vaccinated I am not that worried about how dangerous covid is anymore, I am just concerned with ERs being overloaded. But if I weren't vaccinated, 1 our of 100  or even 0.5 out of a hundred still aren't odds I would be thrilled with taking.

I think the CFR is used because it is an easier number to know where as the IFR has to presume how many cases there were based on other data. Its hard to know how many cases are simply unreported though there are probably a few ways you could look at other things to try and estimate the total cases. For example look at the rates when you have a testing surge or if they tested for antibodies.

I do take your point that a CFR could be misleading because it depends on test rates. Ex: if you only tested dead bodies then the CFR would seem like 100%. So if we assume that the actual number of infections was significantly higher than the documented case infections that would mean the CFR rate would most likely be higher than the true number. If the number of actual infections were twice what they were believed then this would mean a 0.8% IFR.

According to this meta study which looked at numbers from smaller studies around the country they found IFRs around America ranging from 0.2% to about 1.3% depending on location.

Honestly, since we have a vaccine and I am vaccinated I am not that worried about how dangerous covid is anymore, I am just concerned with ERs being overloaded. But if I weren't vaccinated, 1 our of 100  or even 0.5 out of a hundred still aren't odds I would be thrilled with taking.

antibody studies in the US and around the world have found mid 80% prevalence of antibodies
which would make CFR/IFR significantly less than 1.6%...

Honestly, since we have a vaccine and I am vaccinated I am not that worried about how dangerous covid is anymore, I am just concerned with ERs being overloaded. But if I weren't vaccinated, 1 our of 100  or even 0.5 out of a hundred still aren't odds I would be thrilled with taking.

You should be worried. The vaccines are rapidly losing effect which is exactly the pattern of ADE that they saw in every previous coronavirus vaccine trial right before the animals started dying. The next variant could be the pandemic of the vaccinated.

You should be worried. The vaccines are rapidly losing effect which is exactly the pattern of ADE that they saw in every previous coronavirus vaccine trial right before the animals started dying. The next variant could be the pandemic of the vaccinated.

Why do you think they want everyone vaxxed. That way you cannot blame the vaxx. If majority of vaxxed are getting sick compared to the unvaxxed, then a light bulb should go on. Like how majority of Israel positives/hospitalized/deaths are vaxxed.

I will wait for the day nothing happens to the vaxxed.  Then I will laugh at the remaining unvaxxed who survived.   Who wants to take legal bets?  What will happen. 

antibody studies in the US and around the world have found mid 80% prevalence of antibodies
which would make CFR/IFR significantly less than 1.6%...

Trying to figure the math on this one. So about 80% of Americans tested for antibodies have antibodies which would mean that about 80% have either been vaccinated or have recovered from covid right? From what I just checked about 64% of Americans (elligible Americans?) have gotten vaccinated , so that would mean an additional 16% must have gotten antibodies from exposure to covid right?   There have been about 41 million documented instances of covid from what I am reading. I can't tell how we should interpret that number you are citing, what variables I don't know to calculate. How do we know determine the actual infection rate instead of just the confirmed case rate?

You should be worried. The vaccines are rapidly losing effect which is exactly the pattern of ADE that they saw in every previous coronavirus vaccine trial right before the animals started dying. The next variant could be the pandemic of the vaccinated.

From what I have been looking at I wouldn't say they are rapidly losing effect. The effect in the real world is lower than in the studies but we also have new variants and some other factors coming into play. I don't think scientists know yet how fast immunity will decrease but immunity always decreases over time, even from natural exposure. We get a tetanus booster every 10 years or so, other boosters, influenza every year, etc. Decreasing effectiveness isn't some surprise or thing we should be so scared about.

Why do you think they want everyone vaxxed. That way you cannot blame the vaxx. If majority of vaxxed are getting sick compared to the unvaxxed, then a light bulb should go on. Like how majority of Israel positives/hospitalized/deaths are vaxxed.

The vast majority of hospital patients here with covid are unvaxed and the vast majority of deaths are also among the unvaxxed.

Why is Israel different? Not sure, but it would be unscientific to just look at the Israeli numbers and conclude therefore that the vaccines are to blame, there are so many factors at play. They have one of the highest vaccination rates but what about various social factors which could lead to more breakthrough cases compared with other countries that are not seeing the same data?

The vast majority of hospital patients here with covid are unvaxed and the vast majority of deaths are also among the unvaxxed.

Why is Israel different? Not sure, but it would be unscientific to just look at the Israeli numbers and conclude therefore that the vaccines are to blame, there are so many factors at play. They have one of the highest vaccination rates but what about various social factors which could lead to more breakthrough cases compared with other countries that are not seeing the same data?

Majority of deaths here are vaxxed and almost all had underlying conditions.

It's not just Israel, but the UK and Australia as well shows similar numbers to Israel, basically the vaxxed are the ones getting sick.  So all 3 countries use different vaxxes and have different social factors.  Example: Israel uses mainly Pfizer. UK uses mainly Astrezenica, but also Moderna and J&J.  So it's hard to compare us to the UK when we don't use Astra.  That is why Israel is commonly used because we both use Pfizer.  And the way the media and government has lied to the country, why should I trust the information posted by them about how it's mainly the vaxxed who end up in the hospital.  All the people I know who ended up in the hospital are vaxxed.  But take that with a grain of salt.

Then roll out the countries that give Ivermectin as a treatment and their success with it.  But here in the Hawaii, denied.

Majority of deaths here are vaxxed and almost all had underlying conditions.

It's not just Israel, but the UK and Australia as well shows similar numbers to Israel, basically the vaxxed are the ones getting sick.  So all 3 countries use different vaxxes and have different social factors.  Example: Israel uses mainly Pfizer. UK uses mainly Astrezenica, but also Moderna and J&J.  So it's hard to compare us to the UK when we don't use Astra.  That is why Israel is commonly used because we both use Pfizer.  And the way the media and government has lied to the country, why should I trust the information posted by them about how it's mainly the vaxxed who end up in the hospital.  All the people I know who ended up in the hospital are vaxxed.  But take that with a grain of salt.

Then roll out the countries that give Ivermectin as a treatment and their success with it.  But here in the Hawaii, denied.

Proof?  I only seen that a majority of hospitalizations and deaths are the unvaxxed.  Unless here you mean literally Hawaii.

Decreasing effectiveness isn't some surprise or thing we should be so scared about.

It's either a broken promise or a lie. Not sure which is worse at this point.

The only medicine the government is allowing people to take to fight the disease isn't working anymore and that is 'nothing to worry about'. Wow.


Also word today is DHH has commandeered the production output of monoclonal antibodies and is going to make itself the decider of which states get how many doses.

The only medicine the government is allowing people to take to fight the disease isn't working anymore and that is 'nothing to worry about'. Wow.


Also word today is DHH has commandeered the production output of monoclonal antibodies and is going to make itself the decider of which states get how many doses.

Don't forget to favor the vaxxed for doses.   

The only medicine the government is allowing people to take to fight the disease isn't working anymore and that is 'nothing to worry about'. Wow.


Also word today is DHH has commandeered the production output of monoclonal antibodies and is going to make itself the decider of which states get how many doses.

Or they could just allow HCQ stack and Ivermectin early on, instead of waiting until you're so bad where they give you Remdisivar (Hawaii).

Or they could just allow HCQ stack and Ivermectin early on, instead of waiting until you're so bad where they give you Remdisivar (Hawaii).

No treatment at all. Zero.

"Come back when you are almost dead so we can put you on a ventilator to finish the job and collect our $50,000 Covid bounty from the feds."

Majority of deaths here are vaxxed and almost all had underlying conditions.

It's not just Israel, but the UK and Australia as well shows similar numbers to Israel, basically the vaxxed are the ones getting sick.  So all 3 countries use different vaxxes and have different social factors.  Example: Israel uses mainly Pfizer. UK uses mainly Astrezenica, but also Moderna and J&J.  So it's hard to compare us to the UK when we don't use Astra.  That is why Israel is commonly used because we both use Pfizer.  And the way the media and government has lied to the country, why should I trust the information posted by them about how it's mainly the vaxxed who end up in the hospital.  All the people I know who ended up in the hospital are vaxxed.  But take that with a grain of salt.

Then roll out the countries that give Ivermectin as a treatment and their success with it.  But here in the Hawaii, denied.

Here in Hawaii? Thats not the numbers I have been seeing. Breakthrough cases represent a very small portion of the cases and the hospitalizations.
https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-in-hawaii-spiked-since-july/

I did hear a report on the news about how many of the covid numbers they are seeing now are people going to the hospitals for other reasons but the cases are caught during screenings. So the person may have no health problems and just a broken ankle but if the screening finds covid then the person is counted as a breakthrough case. This may be one reason we are seeing all these breakthrough cases. I read an exaplanation about why covid seems to spread easily despite the vaccine. It had something to do with covid being able to spread in the nasal passage rather than deeper in the body. This meant that it can reproduce easier and be contagious before the immune system can fight it off. This seems to explain how people are still being able to spread it while vaccinated and without symptoms. Not because of a failure of the vaccine but because of the way the virus reproduces and natural limitations of how fast even a vaccinated immune system can respond.

The USA is supposed to be running Ivermectin trials but last I heard about it, it didn't seem promising. I haven't heard if they completed the studies yet.

It's either a broken promise or a lie. Not sure which is worse at this point.

If you take a black and white approach then I can see how that is all it looks like.

Realistically medicine is not an exact science. They did very large initial studies and had a certain percentage, it wasn't a lie or a broken promise to report those numbers. They couldn't know that covid was going to mutate into all these variants or how exactly how fast the immunity would wane.

The only thing I think we can safely conclude is that there has been a failure to communicate. A lot of people aren't scientific minded, they hear 95% effective then later hear a lower number and they think they were lied to but that is an overly simplistic view of the world.

If you take a black and white approach then I can see how that is all it looks like.

Realistically medicine is not an exact science. They did very large initial studies and had a certain percentage, it wasn't a lie or a broken promise to report those numbers. They couldn't know that covid was going to mutate into all these variants or how exactly how fast the immunity would wane.

The only thing I think we can safely conclude is that there has been a failure to communicate. A lot of people aren't scientific minded, they hear 95% effective then later hear a lower number and they think they were lied to but that is an overly simplistic view of the world.

Then why is the government dictating medical care and demanding a One Size Fits All approach to dealing with this?

You understand that Fauci while holds the title of 'doctor' he isnt a practicing medical doctor, he hasnt touched a patient since his residency in 1968. He has zero business telling anyone how to treat disease. He is lab worker who became a bureaucrat.