Im not anti vaxx, im anti covid vaxx.

Ive had my c pox, tetanus, hep c, all willingly. As in no objection. And i would do all again if i had to go back in time. Why, because these have been around for generations and we are aware of the side effects.

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Im not anti vaxx, im anti covid vaxx.

Ive had my c pox, tetanus, hep c, all willingly. As in no objection. And i would do all again if i had to go back in time. Why, because these have been around for generations and we are aware of the side effects.

Not only that, but they are effective and safe based on millions of people in the sample size over a very long period of time.  The types of vaccinations are also well known and based on tried and true methods.

COVID is the first vaccine using these types of technical processes.  We had NO approved mRNA vaccines before COVID, even after decades of development and testing.

We're being asked to trust people producing something that's not be proven safe and effective until they started testing during the pandemic.  It's okay if you trust them.  People need to respect the fact that others may not trust them.  There is no "truth" in this -- but there are still lots of unknowns.

Recently, women have stopped taking any hormone based birth control for a variety of reasons.  My daughter stopped because the "pill" was causing behavioral and emotional issues ... hallucinations, feelings of dread, anxiety, etc.  She not only stopped the pill, but had to be prescribed meds to help with the anxiety -- something she never experienced prior to taking birth control.

After all these DECADES of use, healthcare workers are only now seeing a pattern and linking it to the hormonal changes caused by taking the pill or wearing the patch.

But somehow, the "experts" know everything there is to know about a vaccine that didn't exist 2 years ago?

I'll trust the science when I see the science.

Not only that, but they are effective and safe based on millions of people in the sample size over a very long period of time.  The types of vaccinations are also well known and based on tried and true methods.

COVID is the first vaccine using these types of technical processes.  We had NO approved mRNA vaccines before COVID, even after decades of development and testing.

We're being asked to trust people producing something that's not be proven safe and effective until they started testing during the pandemic.  It's okay if you trust them.  People need to respect the fact that others may not trust them.  There is no "truth" in this -- but there are still lots of unknowns.

Recently, women have stopped taking any hormone based birth control for a variety of reasons.  My daughter stopped because the "pill" was causing behavioral and emotional issues ... hallucinations, feelings of dread, anxiety, etc.  She not only stopped the pill, but had to be prescribed meds to help with the anxiety -- something she never experienced prior to taking birth control.

After all these DECADES of use, healthcare workers are only now seeing a pattern and linking it to the hormonal changes caused by taking the pill or wearing the patch.

But somehow, the "experts" know everything there is to know about a vaccine that didn't exist 2 years ago?

I'll trust the science when I see the science.

all available data says it is safe and effective...

all available data says it is safe and effective...

"We believe the man was a victim of alien abduction, because we have no evidence to the contrary."

all available data says it is safe and effective...

And if happen to come across some data that contradicts the Scientific Consensus (TM) then quickly avert your eyes and say 5 Hail Fauci's.

You don't want to turn into one of those filthy conthipiwathy theowithts now, do you?

And if happen to come across some data that contradicts the Scientific Consensus (TM) then quickly avert your eyes and say 5 Hail Fauci's.

You don't want to turn into one of those filthy conthipiwathy theowithts now, do you?

He will give up that ammo that he doesn't own. 

You are weaseling around the subject. You know what I am refering to. We are discussing something that your govt wants to put in your body with or with out your conscent by means of trickery or coersion. We are not talking about tires or televisions or cameras or batteries. We are talking about something that best case it woild seem to be a cash grab. Remind me how much safety testing has been done before they started to put this in people. You should be able to tell me what the long terms effects will be right?  Can you tell me difinatively that this will do no harm?  It already has in people, far more than all past vaccines. I am reluctant to call it a vaccine because it seems to not imbue the recipient with any sort of immunity. 95% then 65% and now you need boosters every few months for something that was equally or less likely to kill you than the seasonal flu?  Btw what happened to the flu last year?  Why has the CEO of I think it was Pfizer not taken it? How many other doctors under the threat of losing their license spoken out against this?  How come the vax inserts were blank but you had informed conscent somehow?  What would happen if this was something else entirely?  If something was so good for you why would you have to try so hard to get people to take it?  It is still EUA not even approved. I dont trust it. If you are vaxxed why do you care what I do, your safe right?  No such thing as natural immunity right? Depends on the day of the week I suppose. What if you are wrong? There is no cure or taking something like this back.

There was 30 years of research into this technology before it became used in a vaccine. However there was the J&J option which was not based on the mRNA and that's the one I went for, i figured all else equal at least it was a more tried and true method. No one can tell you definitively that any vaccine will do no harm. There is such a thing as natural immunity and it is quite good. They didn't know the answer to this question initially but the data coming out now seems to be making this case.

The point about various other products was only to illustrate how the profit motive could taint any industry and had nothing to do directly with vaccines. It is interesting now to see many conservatives making arguments against the profit motive of big companies though, they are essentially making a case for government healthcare.

Back to vaccines, a number of vaccines children are required to have to go to school are multi dose vaccines, are they all just cash grabs as well? What if boosters are just the nature of the virus? Should they avoid making a booster which would lead to a weaker immune system just so no one can claim they are trying to profit?

Lots of fair questions but all I can say is that I look at it as a logical risk analysis decision. What are my risks if I do take it and what are my risks if I don't take it. From all the reading and listening I have done I concluded the known risk of not taking it is significantly higher than the known risk of taking it. I also took it so as to reduce my risk to my parents since they are in their 60's.

As for the CEO of pfizer, it looks like he did take the vaccine. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/03/30/fact-check-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-received-covid-19-vaccine/7028843002/
The disappearance of the flu is an interesting question and the last I heard on it is that they are still trying to figure that one out.

Why would people try hard to get you to take something if it was that good for you. Tell that to my kids and their vegetables!

I've received tetanus, malaria, hepatitis, and other vaccinations, as well as boosters, but with the exception of getting them in the military when traveling to areas at high risk for such diseases, the OPTION to get vaccinated was MINE.  There are lists of recommended shots travelers should CONSIDER GETTING when going to these particular regions.  They don't force you to take them or restrict your freedom of movement if you aren't vaccinated.

Therefore, we can pretty much call your analogies and comparisons "Apples vs. Oranges."  Those vaccines are completely unrelated to the current COVID vaccination rules of engagement. 

Boosters are another Red Herring.  So few major disease vaccinations require boosters every 3-6 months like COVID.  Even the annual flu shots are NOT boosters.  They are RE-VACCINATIONS that are no different than what a first time shot consists of.  In all the times I received the flu shot, I NEVER ONCE received a "booster."  If it was happening, they would have needed to know when I had my last dose.  was never asked, and they never bothered to check.

Tetanus needs a booster after 10 years unless you are injured on rusty metal or other object that might put you at risk.  When I go to the doctor, they look up the last time I had a booster, and don't bother with another when they see I was cut by a piece of metal or stepped on a nail the past decade.  Therefore, even if you get this booster, you need another shot if you get injured just to be safe. Again, apples to oranges.  The COVID vaccine to my knowledge is not being administered to anyone who may be/is infected, but for tetanus, they do that.

The vaccines for COVID are new technology.  Comparing them to what other vaccines require and do not require is pointless.

My point about comparing other vaccines with boosters was only to address the profit motive and this point would remain the same whether covid and covid boosters were mandatory or voluntary.  Mandating the vaccines/boosters is a whole separate issue. I think we are already in agreement on the issue of mandatory vaccinations.

A covid booster is the same ingredients as the vaccine, it just serves a different purpose. The initial dose of a vaccine is to teach your body to fight the virus and the booster is to reinforce the immunity that has been developed. Some people, such as those with weakened immune systems are recommended to take boosters because the initial 2 doses were not enough to establish a strong enough immune response. This is because immunity wanes, even natural immunity wanes. And as you get older your immunity system also weakens. The contents of the dose are the same whether booster or initial vaccine doses.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/booster-shots-and-third-doses-for-covid19-vaccines-what-you-need-to-know

Im not anti vaxx, im anti covid vaxx.

Ive had my c pox, tetanus, hep c, all willingly. As in no objection. And i would do all again if i had to go back in time. Why, because these have been around for generations and we are aware of the side effects.

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This makes me wonder, how effective are these vaccines and how fast to they wane? How do they compare to the covid vaccine? (since we should apply the same rigorous standards)

This makes me wonder, how effective are these vaccines and how fast to they wane? How do they compare to the covid vaccine? (since we should apply the same rigorous standards)

so you question existing, proven vaccines, yet say that covid19 vaccines are clearly safe because side effects would have shown by now?
nice...

There was 30 years of research into this technology before it became used in a vaccine. However there was the J&J option which was not based on the mRNA and that's the one I went for, i figured all else equal at least it was a more tried and true method. No one can tell you definitively that any vaccine will do no harm. There is such a thing as natural immunity and it is quite good. They didn't know the answer to this question initially but the data coming out now seems to be making this case.

The point about various other products was only to illustrate how the profit motive could taint any industry and had nothing to do directly with vaccines. It is interesting now to see many conservatives making arguments against the profit motive of big companies though, they are essentially making a case for government healthcare.

Back to vaccines, a number of vaccines children are required to have to go to school are multi dose vaccines, are they all just cash grabs as well? What if boosters are just the nature of the virus? Should they avoid making a booster which would lead to a weaker immune system just so no one can claim they are trying to profit?

Lots of fair questions but all I can say is that I look at it as a logical risk analysis decision. What are my risks if I do take it and what are my risks if I don't take it. From all the reading and listening I have done I concluded the known risk of not taking it is significantly higher than the known risk of taking it. I also took it so as to reduce my risk to my parents since they are in their 60's.

As for the CEO of pfizer, it looks like he did take the vaccine. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/03/30/fact-check-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-received-covid-19-vaccine/7028843002/
The disappearance of the flu is an interesting question and the last I heard on it is that they are still trying to figure that one out.

Why would people try hard to get you to take something if it was that good for you. Tell that to my kids and their vegetables!

Youre right about the MRNA tech, but what u may not know is it was never allowed to go to human trials until last year. Why do u think that is? Something must have stopped human usage.

.

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This makes me wonder, how effective are these vaccines and how fast to they wane? How do they compare to the covid vaccine? (since we should apply the same rigorous standards)

Look up Israel prior to the 3rd vaxx. Long story short, majority of positives and hospitalized are fully vaxxed by Pfizer.

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My point about comparing other vaccines with boosters was only to address the profit motive and this point would remain the same whether covid and covid boosters were mandatory or voluntary.  Mandating the vaccines/boosters is a whole separate issue. I think we are already in agreement on the issue of mandatory vaccinations.

A covid booster is the same ingredients as the vaccine, it just serves a different purpose. The initial dose of a vaccine is to teach your body to fight the virus and the booster is to reinforce the immunity that has been developed. Some people, such as those with weakened immune systems are recommended to take boosters because the initial 2 doses were not enough to establish a strong enough immune response. This is because immunity wanes, even natural immunity wanes. And as you get older your immunity system also weakens. The contents of the dose are the same whether booster or initial vaccine doses.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/booster-shots-and-third-doses-for-covid19-vaccines-what-you-need-to-know

These so called mrna vaccines have zero track record. There are no long term studies in humans and the short term study currently underway is showing serious complications. Reproduction is being effected in a few cases but you are not going to find out what that means for at least another few years. For all you know this may effectively sterilize people.
I am not sure either how j n j could make a traditional vax when nobody has isolated and analized the sars covi 2 virus. From what I understand is that computer modeling was used in development of these vaxs and if that is the case more tgan likely you have a case of GIGO.
As for having people looking into the disappearance of the seasonal flu?  Seriously?  We got our top people on it.... Our top people. Things like that dont just up and disappear. If you can't at least guess what happened to it you are either lieing or you drank the kool aide.
Also natural immunity to just about any virus should be a given and not a point of contention.

These so called mrna vaccines have zero track record. There are no long term studies in humans and the short term study currently underway is showing serious complications. Reproduction is being effected in a few cases but you are not going to find out what that means for at least another few years. For all you know this may effectively sterilize people.
I am not sure either how j n j could make a traditional vax when nobody has isolated and analized the sars covi 2 virus. From what I understand is that computer modeling was used in development of these vaxs and if that is the case more tgan likely you have a case of GIGO.
As for having people looking into the disappearance of the seasonal flu?  Seriously?  We got our top people on it.... Our top people. Things like that dont just up and disappear. If you can't at least guess what happened to it you are either lieing or you drank the kool aide.
Also natural immunity to just about any virus should be a given and not a point of contention.

Flu #s were released. The media made an error when they said NO ONE DIED FROM THE FLU.  They were corrected by the Department of Heath because they were wrong.  1 person died from the flu.

so you question existing, proven vaccines, yet say that covid19 vaccines are clearly safe because side effects would have shown by now?
nice...

Strawman.
I am questioning how covid compares to these other vaccines. Use existing vaccines as a baseline with which to compare the covid vaccine.

Youre right about the MRNA tech, but what u may not know is it was never allowed to go to human trials until last year. Why do u think that is? Something must have stopped human usage.
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Could that thing just be bureaucracy? Trials are notoriously slow and just look at the difficulty for patients who are dying to be allowed to take experimental treatments.

Strawman.
I am questioning how covid compares to these other vaccines. Use existing vaccines as a baseline with which to compare the covid vaccine.

then why didn't you say that?
your first sentence questions the efficacy of existing vaccines...
therefore, NOT a strawman

Could that thing just be bureaucracy? Trials are notoriously slow and just look at the difficulty for patients who are dying to be allowed to take experimental treatments.

i guess you didn't look into the history of mRNA vaccines like we have asked several times...

These so called mrna vaccines have zero track record. There are no long term studies in humans and the short term study currently underway is showing serious complications. Reproduction is being effected in a few cases but you are not going to find out what that means for at least another few years. For all you know this may effectively sterilize people.

Sure, these things are all potential possibilities, but I think we should weigh that against the unknowns of covid as well shouldn't we? What if covid affects reproduction and we don't find out for a few years?
I do have a certain amount of faith that scientists have, in their 3 decades of studying this mrna technology, figured out enough to at least have a general idea of how it interacts with our body. Doesn't alleviate all my fear though. I will say though, if everyone had the attitude of a new vaccine having zero track record then we would have any vaccines ever because no one would be willing to take it.

I am not sure either how j n j could make a traditional vax when nobody has isolated and analized the sars covi 2 virus. From what I understand is that computer modeling was used in development of these vaxs and if that is the case more tgan likely you have a case of GIGO.
As for having people looking into the disappearance of the seasonal flu?  Seriously?  We got our top people on it.... Our top people. Things like that dont just up and disappear. If you can't at least guess what happened to it you are either lieing or you drank the kool aide.
Also natural immunity to just about any virus should be a given and not a point of contention.

I think figuring out the current pandemic would be more high priority than figuring out why the flu isn't killing more people. Plus the masking, hand washing, and isolation sure makes a lot sense in explaining this disappearance.
I fully agree it is a stupid mistake not to consider natural immunity as equivalent to being vaccinated for the purposes of any government mandates.
I don't know what you mean when you say no one has isolated and analyzed the covid virus. So we haven't really seen it under a microscope before?

i guess you didn't look into the history of mRNA vaccines like we have asked several times...

Perhaps you would like to narrow it down a little bit. 3 decades is a bit much for light reading.