Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations (Read 58629 times)

hvybarrels

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #100 on: August 26, 2021, 02:26:04 PM »
Yeah that .02% mortality rate sure is awful

So glad they took away our rights and want to force us onto and endless succession gene therapy drugs to keep us safe



How much fire can a ceasefire cease if a ceasefire never ceased fire?

omnigun

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #101 on: August 26, 2021, 02:37:22 PM »
Yeah that .02% mortality rate sure is awful

So glad they took away our rights and want to force us onto and endless succession gene therapy drugs to keep us safe



No recent government regulations deals with Gene Therapy.  The Covid Vaccines are not gene therapy.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #102 on: August 26, 2021, 02:39:07 PM »
Attached

Fire is not a viral disease, and vice-versa.

Try again.

You assume the virus is an imminent threat to you if everyone isn't vaccinated.  What about those under 12?  The vaccine isn't being administered to that age group.  So, how many kids are running around with an asymptomatic case of COVID spreading it from person to person?  According to the CDC:

Quote
Although fewer children have been infected with COVID-19 compared to adults, children can:

-- Be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19
-- Get sick from COVID-19
-- Spread COVID-19 to others

We'll never be at 100% vaccination unless everyone is allowed to get it.  So, does another 10-20% of the adults population in addition to all those 12 and under really make you afraid?  If the 10-20% were vaccinated, you'd still have the 12 and under group to fear.

BTW, kids are more likely to ignore hand washing, social distancing and mask wearing than adults.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #103 on: August 26, 2021, 02:43:21 PM »
There have been many successful treatments being used.  Like HCQ stack that Hanks and DDK were given.  Even others who told their stories "I thought was going to die.  I called my wife to tell her good bye because i'm not going to make it thru the night.  Doc gave me HCQ stack and in 6 hours I felt way better". Trump also mentions it and guess what happens. Hanks and DDK shut up about it.  Some government officials ban it, like they did in Nevada.

Then add in Ivemectin that India has been using on millions.

So why aren't any of these being used?  Refer back to my client who was in the hospital for 3 weeks.  He was told "not FDA approved" is why he wasn't given anything. Even though HCQ has been around for generations.  But yet vaxx, at that time was not FDA approved either, but OK to give.  Can't authorize an EUA if there is an effective treatment.  So the treatments should be given out to everyone who's in the hospital (like candy reference).  Catch it early is the best.  Waiting until it gets so bad that now you get the treatments is like trying to defeat stage 4 cancer.  If you can treat it early, you get better odds.

There have been some studies on the HCQ stack and it's effectiveness in the US.  Many of which were done to people so far gone that it would make little difference (stage 4 cancer reference above).  So said studies concluded that HCQ doesn't work.  Even though many other countries as well have been using it with success.  This was all in 2020.  HCQ is also very cheap since the patent on it expired.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the clarification.
I don't pay much attention to what actors
do.
I'm going to see my VA doctor tomorrow
on an un-related problem, But I'll ask about the
prophylactics you mentioned.  I get my prescriptions
from the VA,   so Hawaii can go fuck itself.
 :shaka:

omnigun

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #104 on: August 26, 2021, 02:43:45 PM »
They are testing the vaccine on kids.  Soon they will join the herd.

hvybarrels

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #105 on: August 26, 2021, 03:09:25 PM »
How much fire can a ceasefire cease if a ceasefire never ceased fire?

MauiAxis

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #106 on: August 26, 2021, 05:28:20 PM »
Fire is not a viral disease, and vice-versa.


Its called an analogy. Look up what that means.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #107 on: August 26, 2021, 05:35:13 PM »
Its called an analogy. Look up what that means.


There are good analogies, and there are bad analogies.

I know the definition.  No need to tell me to look anything up.



The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aieahound

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #108 on: August 26, 2021, 06:38:46 PM »

There are good analogies, and there are bad analogies.

I know the definition.  No need to tell me to look anything up.





That’s what your ex-wife figured out!  :rofl:

Mods. There’s one to delete. But gotta admit it’s funny.

poke

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #109 on: August 26, 2021, 08:37:37 PM »
Is it true Gov Ige is rolling out vaccine passports before Labor Day?   :wtf:

eyeeatingfish

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #110 on: August 26, 2021, 09:20:05 PM »
#2

Nobody answered my question either.

For those "concerned citizens" who want unvaccinated people to go to the back of the line in regards to medical care, are you volunteering to go to the back of the line if vaccine side effects start clogging up the hospitals?

Are you ready to take a bite of that same feces sandwich that you want us to swallow?

An interesting counter question. I would say that there is very little evidence (none really) to think that this would actually happen. Plus if vaccine side effects start clogging up hospitals while covid is clogging up hospitals then we are truly screwed.

But if we want to play this what if game... I guess my reply would be that I wouldn't put the vaccinated at the back of the line because the decision to get vaccinated was arguably supported by the data, it was the logical decision.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #111 on: August 26, 2021, 09:25:29 PM »
Yeah that .02% mortality rate sure is awful

So glad they took away our rights and want to force us onto and endless succession gene therapy drugs to keep us safe



1-2% mortality rate, not 0.02%.
A little lower in some countries and quite a bit higher in some other countries.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #112 on: August 26, 2021, 09:46:54 PM »
Triage is the answer.  But that would be worst case scenario.  So all other options are out the window too, which means:

1) 100% of all hospitals on the island are full
2) Air lifting to "outer islands" are not possible cause they're full too
3) Other facilities are set up by hospitals (parking lot, cafeteria, etc...) are full
4) National Guard/military help is maxed out (military triage tents set up at say Aloha Stadium) are full


If your son is turned away and dies, then that means he was so critical that he died.  So negligence on the hospital for not recognizing the seriousness.  Compared to someone who has CV who isn't in immediate danger of dying. On a side note, this is what England does if someone comes into the ER due to "free healthcare".  Unless you're dying, you're told to come back later.

This is why I posted about asking why aren't the good treatments being utilized?  Instead people are told to recover the natural way.  Read the post about my client. I don't remember if it was here or in the CV thread. LMK if you want me to retype.

Read the post about the you vs. them above.  That's basically what's happening and only the weak minded are falling for it. Luckily, you're not falling for it like how someone else is. We have seen this tactic used many times recently.  Trump vs. DNC, Blue Line vs. liberals, White vs. Black, etc...Now it's vaxxed vs. unvaxxed. And it's the vaxx pushers who are wanting to make life difficult for the unvaxxed.  So guess which side they're on.

KHON2 news this morning said about 98% of state workers are vaxxed. About 1K are not. 80 something applied for religious exceptions.  The state wants to charge $200 extra a month for health insurance.  Then add in the weekly test of $150.  Lets make it so expensive that now someone is forced to get vaxxed.  I can go on and on about their plan to force the vaxx, but I'll just end it here.

Sure, the general answer would be triage but I think it is undeniable that other things are at play. This isn't the same as trying to figure out who to treat after a building collapse or terrorist incident, here we have people who made a choice that contributed to the situation.

Consider also that the overloaded hospitals isn't just going to take a toll on emergency room needs where someone with a stroke is being pitted against a covid patient. Hospitals being overloaded is going to mean other essential services are going to be delayed or not done. Screenings for cancers, transplants, etc. One Dr. I met shooting told me of a patient who had a small cancer that should have been cut out but it was delayed in part due to covid. When the patient came back in the tumor had grown and spread.

As to your question about other good treatments, as far as I have read and looked into it, there really aren't any that are known to be effective. Some were studied and not found to be effective. Others are currently in trials. Ivermectin for example, a neurotoxin used to kill parasites and there was some reason to believe it may work against some forms of viral infections. It is currently in trials but last I heard it didn't look very promising.

I think we must strive not to turn this into a moral judgement and look at it purely as a logistical matter. There are two other instances that I think can help to think through this issue.
1. There was a small town on the mainland somewhere that was experiencing a lot of heroine/opioid overdoses to the point that ambulances were expensing large amounts of their budgets on the Narcan drug used to save them and it threatened to make them run out of money. The city decided that if they had already saved the same patient 3 times from an overdose that they would no longer use the Narcan on them. There is certanly a moral angle, afterall these people are doing it to themselves, but there is also a logistical aspect, it is simply unsustainable and if someone overdosed 3 times there is good reason to believe they would continue to overdose.
2. Some companies have decided to ban employees from smoking even when not at work because the companies cover the employee portion of the health insurance. They ran the numbers and knew that they would save a lot of money through cheaper premiums if their employees were less sick because they didn't smoke. There is the moral question of "why should my insurance be higher because you make yourself more sick" but there is also the simple numbers game of sicker employees cost more.

We can look at the decision of how to triage people when/if hospitals get overrun both as a moral judgement but also as a logistical decision. We can say that people chose to skip the vaccine and place themselves in obvious danger and use that as a rationale on who to treat first. But I think a logistical argument could also be made to arrive at that decision to treat the vaccinated first. A hospital can know that if the unvaccinated people know they will get turned away then this creates an incentive for people to get vaccinated which will then serve to reduce the problem of the overcrowding.

ren

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #113 on: August 26, 2021, 10:01:48 PM »
All these issues and questions are steering us into socialized healthcare. In the future people will be triaged according to some coefficient say a "treatment" coefficient....
Deeds Not Words

Glasser

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #114 on: August 27, 2021, 07:33:08 AM »
All these issues and questions are steering us into socialized healthcare. In the future people will be triaged according to some coefficient say a "treatment" coefficient....

your access to services not just healthcare will be tied to a Social Credit Score. Vaxx Passport is the first step down the slippery slope they are pushing everyone towards.

Getting vaxx is 'patriotic' and morally / socially responsible ! You are with us or against us!




omnigun

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #115 on: August 27, 2021, 08:58:45 AM »
your access to services not just healthcare will be tied to a Social Credit Score. Vaxx Passport is the first step down the slippery slope they are pushing everyone towards.

Getting vaxx is 'patriotic' and morally / socially responsible ! You are with us or against us!



Not everything is a slippery slope....

We won't get social credit scores.

changemyoil66

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #116 on: August 27, 2021, 09:11:13 AM »
1-2% mortality rate, not 0.02%.
A little lower in some countries and quite a bit higher in some other countries.

He might be referring to HI.

Glasser

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #117 on: August 27, 2021, 09:24:22 AM »
Businesses have been denied access to payment and banking services strictly based on their political beliefs, people are clamoring to deny people healthcare for not taking experimental drugs, people who didnt even go into the Capitol building on Jan 6 are being held without bail because of their SocMed posts, they were purging members of the military for their SocMed posts, Doctors are being censored and having their licenses attacked for discussing medical science ....


.... but yeah we don't have Social Credit scores yet..


 

omnigun

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #118 on: August 27, 2021, 10:27:48 AM »
Businesses have been denied access to payment and banking services strictly based on their political beliefs, people are clamoring to deny people healthcare for not taking experimental drugs, people who didnt even go into the Capitol building on Jan 6 are being held without bail because of their SocMed posts, they were purging members of the military for their SocMed posts, Doctors are being censored and having their licenses attacked for discussing medical science ....


.... but yeah we don't have Social Credit scores yet..


 

Weren't the republicans cheering this on?  With the whole gay cake thing?

Doctors making recommendations to non patients is bad.  Where is evidence of the people who didn't enter the capitol still in jail? 

Glasser

Re: Two serious questions for those opposed to mask and covid regulations
« Reply #119 on: August 27, 2021, 12:33:03 PM »
  Where is evidence of the people who didn't enter the capitol still in jail?

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