So lets say that in the real world evidence masks provided a 50% reduction in the spread of covid,

Why do hypotheticals with made up numbers? You can actually look up a lot of data. Masks are about 10-15% effective in stopping YOU from SPREADING, they do jack all to prevent you from aquiring.  Masking children is detrimental to their health.  If you are Vaxxed you shouldnt give a crap who is masked.

Cloth mask stops the deadliest virus in history. Sure, ill buy that for a dollar.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

To be fair, that's taking things to the extreme.

Reduction (no need to be proven in court) that slows the pace of spread of any disease is helpful (adding IMO before Mr. Tourettes jumps in  ).  Don't necessarily need to eliminate risk.  Even N95 masks aren't the end-all-be-all for COVID transmission (was mentioned in another thread, but I forget which one). 

Why do hypotheticals with made up numbers? You can actually look up a lot of data. Masks are about 10-15% effective in stopping YOU from SPREADING, they do jack all to prevent you from aquiring.  Masking children is detrimental to their health.  If you are Vaxxed you shouldnt give a crap who is masked.

Ignoring spelling and dropped words, you make a very good point.
 

Ignoring spelling and dropped words, you make a very good point.
 

Proud graduate of Kailua High, I still get problems with Left hand vs Right hand  but can do Port vs. Starboard no problem, dunno why.

Proud graduate of Kailua High, I still get problems with Left hand vs Right hand  but can do Port vs. Starboard no problem, dunno why.

Last thing I am is a grammar Nazi.  Beauty of port and starboard is they are the same any way you are facing.
So you as a 737 pilot won't turn off your only good engine and crash based on the report of a stewardess facing aft.
Still your comment is spot on.
 

Cloth mask stops the deadliest virus in history. Sure, ill buy that for a dollar.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Laboratory tests showed that two layers of t-shirt type material was quite good at trapping the water droplets that would carry covid. One layer had some reduction but wasn't very good. Some of those thin materials were quite bad.

Why do hypotheticals with made up numbers? You can actually look up a lot of data. Masks are about 10-15% effective in stopping YOU from SPREADING, they do jack all to prevent you from aquiring.  Masking children is detrimental to their health.  If you are Vaxxed you shouldnt give a crap who is masked.

I made a hypothetical just for the sake of the discussion. Finding the actual number on mask effectiveness is extremely complex. You have laboratory data which can show good numbers and then real world data where the numbers aren't as high. But then real world data has so many variables to consider it is very difficult to control for all the various factors to find perfect comparisons and get a hard number. Variables like population density, weather, level of regulation, level of compliance with regulation, mask types used, etc. Maybe someday we can digest all the data but I don't think we have a good idea of how well the masks work. A mask is minimally invasive, even if it were only 25% effective, isn't that sill a fair argument to take such a small measure?

What about the people who cannot get vaccinated or where the vaccine wouldn't be effective? THey would have a reason to give a crap about who is masked. Normally I take a libertarian view on people wearing protective equipment. If you want to ride a bike without a helmet, by all means, your choice. The only thing that really stands out is when unvaccinated people (or just sick people prior to the vaccine) overload hospitals. That is when the persons choice to not wear a mask, not get vaccinated, not wash their hands, etc start to really affect me.

Laboratory tests showed that two layers of t-shirt type material was quite good at trapping the water droplets that would carry covid. One layer had some reduction but wasn't very good. Some of those thin materials were quite bad.

The tests were conducted with pillow cases and 100% cotton T-Shirts cut and sewn into actual masks.

A bandana dangling in front of the mouth is only a mask in the context of Old Western movies when one is robbing a bank, stage coach, train, etc.

It pays to actually read about the experiments to see how the "masks" were made and worn.

Additionally, when you post your comment, yet the government's guidelines say nothing about requiring 2 layers of T-Shirt material, it's obvious the guidance is less about stopping the virus and more about making people feel safer.  Our state in particular came out and said a single bandana worn as a mask was sufficient.

So much for following the science.

The tests were conducted with pillow cases and 100% cotton T-Shirts cut and sewn into actual masks.

A bandana dangling in front of the mouth is only a mask in the context of Old Western movies when one is robbing a bank, stage coach, train, etc.

It pays to actually read about the experiments to see how the "masks" were made and worn.

Additionally, when you post your comment, yet the government's guidelines say nothing about requiring 2 layers of T-Shirt material, it's obvious the guidance is less about stopping the virus and more about making people feel safer.  Our state in particular came out and said a single bandana worn as a mask was sufficient.

So much for following the science.

Yeah, well not really. So much for veracity.

https://hawaiicovid19.com/mask-guidance/

If anykind of cloth mask worked (10 ply), why doesn't workers who work in a virus lab use them?  If you trust what the government is saying, then go for it. But I question it because of that reason.

OSHA requires that workers be fitness tested to wear respiratory PPE so they arent detrimentally effected when using it. Notice how no one cares masks might be harming peoples health now.

If anykind of cloth mask worked (10 ply), why doesn't workers who work in a virus lab use them?  If you trust what the government is saying, then go for it. But I question it because of that reason.

Why must it be 100% or 0%? 

Just because a lambo is faster than a toyota doesn't mean they both can't be used for transportation. 

Certain masks are more effective but that doesn't make the less effective ones useless.

OSHA requires that workers be fitness tested to wear respiratory PPE so they arent detrimentally effected when using it. Notice how no one cares masks might be harming peoples health now.

What does OSHA know compared to "medical experts" that say cloth is jUsT aS GuUD.

Yeah, well not really. So much for veracity.

https://hawaiicovid19.com/mask-guidance/

Context (or timeframe) is king.

Your post was updated in Nov 2020 based on LATER guidelines.

This is from April 2020:

At grocery stores, pharmacies, take-out restaurants and other open businesses, people will
need to wear a mask, scarf, bandana, or other facial covering.
The goal is to prevent further spread of the coronavirus.

Not doing so will amount to a misdemeanor, but the mayor said he hopes no real enforcement
will be necessary.

https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/04/masks-will-be-required-at-businesses-and-riding-transit-in-honolulu/

Half the people lined up for more than an hour outside Waipio Costco were wearing bandanas for months. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8072811/

German Study -  Is a Mask That Covers the Mouth and Nose Free from Undesirable Side Effects in Everyday Use and Free of Potential Hazards?


Pretty comprehensive.

There have been many successful treatments being used.  Like HCQ stack that Hanks and DDK were given.  Even others who told their stories "I thought was going to die.  I called my wife to tell her good bye because i'm not going to make it thru the night.  Doc gave me HCQ stack and in 6 hours I felt way better". Trump also mentions it and guess what happens. Hanks and DDK shut up about it.  Some government officials ban it, like they did in Nevada.

Then add in Ivemectin that India has been using on millions.

So why aren't any of these being used?  Refer back to my client who was in the hospital for 3 weeks.  He was told "not FDA approved" is why he wasn't given anything. Even though HCQ has been around for generations.  But yet vaxx, at that time was not FDA approved either, but OK to give.  Can't authorize an EUA if there is an effective treatment.  So the treatments should be given out to everyone who's in the hospital (like candy reference).  Catch it early is the best.  Waiting until it gets so bad that now you get the treatments is like trying to defeat stage 4 cancer.  If you can treat it early, you get better odds.

There have been some studies on the HCQ stack and it's effectiveness in the US.  Many of which were done to people so far gone that it would make little difference (stage 4 cancer reference above).  So said studies concluded that HCQ doesn't work.  Even though many other countries as well have been using it with success.  This was all in 2020.  HCQ is also very cheap since the patent on it expired.

Hope this helps.

What ever happened to Trump's "Right to Try"?  Did Biden rescind that EO?  People should have the right to try if that's what they want.  But it seems that the Pfizer controlled FDA don't want you to try HCQ because it would destroy their profits.  So it seems that they forced the FDA's approval of an experimental drug in less than a year which normally takes 5+ years to approve.  Seeing any corruption here?

For those of you who are saying that masks help against the spread of a virus (covid) Think about this, why don't doctors who have the flu do surgery if masks help stop the spread of viruses.  Would you let a doctor who has the symptoms of a flu do your open heart surgery even with a N95 mask?  If you said no then why do you advocate wearing a mask if you wouldn't do the surgery?  If you had the surgery the hospital won't even let visitors visit if you had symptoms of a flu.

What ever happened to Trump's "Right to Try"?  Did Biden rescind that EO?  People should have the right to try if that's what they want.  But it seems that the Pfizer controlled FDA don't want you to try HCQ because it would destroy their profits.  So it seems that they forced the FDA's approval of an experimental drug in less than a year which normally takes 5+ years to approve.  Seeing any corruption here?

The hospitals are not giving the drugs because they're not FDA approved. I know a guy who was in there for 3 weeks and he asked for HCQ stack and remdisivar and was denied because not FDA approved. Instead he had to heal naturally with an O2 tank.  Imagine how fast he would have been released if the drugs did work. Like Joe Rogan posted, 3 days later and he felt way better. DDK 1 day, Hanks 1 day.

Rogan flew to Panama to get pumped full of stem cells to fix his shoulder instead of going in for another surgery  because not FDA approved and had the money to make it happen. IIRC he learned about that Panamanian Doc from Mel Gibson.

For those of you who are saying that masks help against the spread of a virus (covid) Think about this, why don't doctors who have the flu do surgery if masks help stop the spread of viruses.  Would you let a doctor who has the symptoms of a flu do your open heart surgery even with a N95 mask?  If you said no then why do you advocate wearing a mask if you wouldn't do the surgery?  If you had the surgery the hospital won't even let visitors visit if you had symptoms of a flu.

See previous example of levels of risk.  A condom doesn't stop all pregnancies or STD's but its not like everyone screams "its not 100%" and raw dogs random women.  If a cloth mask minuses 20% risk that's more than 0.  If a N95 mask does 50% that's higher than cloth but doesn't make cloth magically worthless.