I can't help but think that if Trump had won the presidency and pushed the vaccine mandates and Biden opposed the mandates that we would see people's positions flipped. I think most Trump supporters would be talking about protecting the community and people should have to get vaccines and progressives would be preaching personal freedom and mistrust of the government. I think in some alternate universe where this happened this forum would be flipped with everyone talking about how safe vaccines were and that democrats were selfish to the safety of society.

I think this would be just another example of a significant lack of ideological consistency. Humans seem more concerned on siding with their tribe than they are with principles. This isn't a commentary about only one political party or one specific issue so it isn't an attach on democrats or republicans.

Thoughts?

No

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No

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^that

IDGAF what Trump or Biden had/have to say on the matter. Can’t speak for others on the board, but I can imagine there are some that would be biased as noted in the OP.

I can't help but think that if Trump had won the presidency and pushed the vaccine mandates and Biden opposed the mandates that we would see people's positions flipped. I think most Trump supporters would be talking about protecting the community and people should have to get vaccines and progressives would be preaching personal freedom and mistrust of the government. I think in some alternate universe where this happened this forum would be flipped with everyone talking about how safe vaccines were and that democrats were selfish to the safety of society.

I think this would be just another example of a significant lack of ideological consistency. Humans seem more concerned on siding with their tribe than they are with principles. This isn't a commentary about only one political party or one specific issue so it isn't an attach on democrats or republicans.

Thoughts?

no

^that

IDGAF what Trump or Biden had/have to say on the matter. Can’t speak for others on the board, but I can imagine there are some that would be biased as noted in the OP.

I do think that in some ways this vaccine issue has brought together some people who would normally be on opposite sides of political aisles. So perhaps my prediction is wrong, that this is one of those issues that cross political borders more than usual?

I do think that in some ways this vaccine issue has brought together some people who would normally be on opposite sides of political aisles. So perhaps my prediction is wrong, that this is one of those issues that cross political borders more than usual?

To clarify, IDGAF about political borders, or politics in general for this issue. This one is about the principle(s) of the issue.

I do think that in some ways this vaccine issue has brought together some people who would normally be on opposite sides of political aisles. So perhaps my prediction is wrong, that this is one of those issues that cross political borders more than usual?

COVID and the vaccines are not political issues.  No matter how much the press, government, polls, studies and social media want to make it yet another divisive issue, the "normal" people in this country see it as a medical issue -- something to be decided by the individual and their doctors.

The Dems weaponized COVID to win the election.  They were successful, so they figured they could continue to milk the crisis for all it's worth.

You're falling for the bait if you think the party controlling the White House dictates whether people support one side or the other of the vaccine mandates.

Most of the conflict is on social media.  The power that be want us to believe that's reality, and that somehow those people represent all of us.

I found the Collin Kaepernick story an interesting comparison. He kneeled during the national anthem and caught a lot of flack for it. There were numerous calls for him to be required to stand or be fired. (mostly from people on the ideological right) I find this in contrast to the conservatives who are now protesting a vaccine being required to maintain employment specifically with regards to freedoms. We have the freedom no not be vaccinated against our will or by coercion but not freedom to refrain from standing for the anthem?

COVID and the vaccines are not political issues.  No matter how much the press, government, polls, studies and social media want to make it yet another divisive issue, the "normal" people in this country see it as a medical issue -- something to be decided by the individual and their doctors.

The Dems weaponized COVID to win the election.  They were successful, so they figured they could continue to milk the crisis for all it's worth.

You're falling for the bait if you think the party controlling the White House dictates whether people support one side or the other of the vaccine mandates.

Most of the conflict is on social media.  The power that be want us to believe that's reality, and that somehow those people represent all of us.

I am not sure I can agree with your premise. Though the issue of covid may break the mold somewhat I still think we are seeing patterns of sides forming that correlate to political ideologies. I think I would be accurate in saying that democrats are more likely to support vaccine mandates, lockdowns, and masking than republicans.

Furthermore though covid itself is obviously a medical issue, how to deal with it is invariably political. How to fund treatment, whether to force vaccination, whether to lockdown, etc. all end up being political questions. People aren't lining up just taking the advice of the majority of doctors.

I found the Collin Kaepernick story an interesting comparison. He kneeled during the national anthem and caught a lot of flack for it. There were numerous calls for him to be required to stand or be fired. (mostly from people on the ideological right) I find this in contrast to the conservatives who are now protesting a vaccine being required to maintain employment specifically with regards to freedoms. We have the freedom no not be vaccinated against our will or by coercion but not freedom to refrain from standing for the anthem?

Much different topic, but your thread. There’s a thread on that somewhere in here. I didn’t really care about him or his act in itself. From what I read and learned about the start was that he was essentially just acting out. Then he later tried to make like by was being all noble about things and later turned about to be a lie (at least if I recall correctly). Almost Jussie Smollet level.

At least for me, it had nothing to do with ideology. Again, principle of the matter. Not politics.

I found the Collin Kaepernick story an interesting comparison. He kneeled during the national anthem and caught a lot of flack for it. There were numerous calls for him to be required to stand or be fired. (mostly from people on the ideological right) I find this in contrast to the conservatives who are now protesting a vaccine being required to maintain employment specifically with regards to freedoms. We have the freedom no not be vaccinated against our will or by coercion but not freedom to refrain from standing for the anthem?

Wrong

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I am not sure I can agree with your premise. Though the issue of covid may break the mold somewhat I still think we are seeing patterns of sides forming that correlate to political ideologies. I think I would be accurate in saying that democrats are more likely to support vaccine mandates, lockdowns, and masking than republicans.

Furthermore though covid itself is obviously a medical issue, how to deal with it is invariably political. How to fund treatment, whether to force vaccination, whether to lockdown, etc. all end up being political questions. People aren't lining up just taking the advice of the majority of doctors.

Science is not about following the majority -- of doctors or anyone else.

It's about facts and decisions that are based on individuals and THEIR doctors -- not people like Fauci.

I've never met Fauci.  For him to try and tell me what I need is IMO malpractice.

Much different topic, but your thread. There’s a thread on that somewhere in here. I didn’t really care about him or his act in itself. From what I read and learned about the start was that he was essentially just acting out. Then he later tried to make like by was being all noble about things and later turned about to be a lie (at least if I recall correctly). Almost Jussie Smollet level.

At least for me, it had nothing to do with ideology. Again, principle of the matter. Not politics.

This was covered already in another thread  a while ago. Pretty sure omni felt the same way, which is what kept it going and very long.



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I am not sure I can agree with your premise. Though the issue of covid may break the mold somewhat I still think we are seeing patterns of sides forming that correlate to political ideologies. I think I would be accurate in saying that democrats are more likely to support vaccine mandates, lockdowns, and masking than republicans.

Furthermore though covid itself is obviously a medical issue, how to deal with it is invariably political. How to fund treatment, whether to force vaccination, whether to lockdown, etc. all end up being political questions. People aren't lining up just taking the advice of the majority of doctors.

I didn't think it was about you agreeing with me. I thought it was about you agreeing with whoever is president based on political affiliation.

SNIP

People aren't lining up just taking the advice of the majority of doctors.

Why do you care who someone (other than yourself) bases their personal choice on?

This was covered already in another thread  a while ago. Pretty sure omni felt the same way, which is what kept it going and very long.

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Oh gosh. Don’t say that name 2 more times. Kinda like Beetlejuice…

Much different topic, but your thread. There’s a thread on that somewhere in here. I didn’t really care about him or his act in itself. From what I read and learned about the start was that he was essentially just acting out. Then he later tried to make like by was being all noble about things and later turned about to be a lie (at least if I recall correctly). Almost Jussie Smollet level.

At least for me, it had nothing to do with ideology. Again, principle of the matter. Not politics.

I think Kaepernicks protest was based on a racist political lie but I also didn't care if he didn't want to stand for the anthem. Forced patriotism isn't real patriotism. 
To me the comparison is really just about to what extent freedom is the guiding principle.

As for your other question, I didn't intend for this to be another covid/vaccine debate thread. This one is about ideologies and how they interact with political groups, leaders, and triablism.

Science is not about following the majority -- of doctors or anyone else.

So science had absolutely no bearing on the vast majority of physicians being vaccinated?

I am not sure I can agree with your premise. Though the issue of covid may break the mold somewhat I still think we are seeing patterns of sides forming that correlate to political ideologies. I think I would be accurate in saying that democrats are more likely to support vaccine mandates, lockdowns, and masking than republicans.

Furthermore though covid itself is obviously a medical issue, how to deal with it is invariably political. How to fund treatment, whether to force vaccination, whether to lockdown, etc. all end up being political questions. People aren't lining up just taking the advice of the majority of doctors.

according to one member, we are supposed to listen to the majority...

I didn't think it was about you agreeing with me. I thought it was about you agreeing with whoever is president based on political affiliation.

I think that tribalism causes people to choose sides based on what their tribe is doing/saying and that this can be stronger than ideological consistency, science, and maybe even religion.