Ukraine vs. Russia (Read 299055 times)

QUIETShooter

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #480 on: March 08, 2022, 01:34:29 PM »
Now President Zelensky is talking "compromise" with Russia and is openly pissed off at Western countries and NATO for not granting him his demands that seriously would have started WW3.

Looks like the guy is about to throw in the towel.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #481 on: March 08, 2022, 01:46:44 PM »
Now President Zelensky is talking "compromise" with Russia and is openly pissed off at Western countries and NATO for not granting him his demands that seriously would have started WW3.

Looks like the guy is about to throw in the towel.
As the Ukrainian conflict is in its 2nd week, it becomes clear that the US empire / NATO has blinked and for now are beginning to abandon their dreams of expanding its dominion into Ukraine to further surround Russia with short to mid-range nuclear missiles.  As a consolation, the US empire has weakened the Russian economy, kicked them out of SWIFT, indefinitely halted the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from Russia to Germany, and strengthened its imperial grip on Western Europe.

As for US imperial puppet Zelensky, he may or may not be left to his fate at the hands of the Russians, once Kiev falls, and will have a lot of time to contemplate and remorse his trusting of his US imperial handlers that led to the truly unnecessary devastating war in his country.

groveler

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #482 on: March 08, 2022, 02:04:59 PM »
Now President Zelensky is talking "compromise" with Russia and is openly pissed off at Western countries and NATO for not granting him his demands that seriously would have started WW3.

Looks like the guy is about to throw in the towel.
Unless the man is stupid, he and every other intelligent man knew, NATO would not put
themselves in the middle of what is essentially a civil war,
and shooting down Russian aircraft.
We'd be more than happy to fund a war of attrition against the Russians and
let them foolishly wear down their resources, till they are once again broken.
and easy targets for Chinese expansionism.
But shooting down their aircraft was always out of the question.
 :popcorn:



QUIETShooter

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #483 on: March 08, 2022, 02:28:57 PM »
Don't know how credible and accurate CRUX News is but they are reporting that Zelensky is open to Russia acknowledging Ukraine as a separate sovereign nation in exchange for Ukraine's recognition of Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk as independent states of Russia.

This would mean that Ukraine will no longer apply for NATO membership.

Who knows.  Maybe Zelensky is just calling a bluff to get NATO and the western world to expedite his demands.

If it is a bluff it's not gonna work, IMO.  If he is serious about the above then maybe an end to this crisis is on the horizon.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #484 on: March 08, 2022, 02:51:04 PM »
Don't know how credible and accurate CRUX News is but they are reporting that Zelensky is open to Russia acknowledging Ukraine as a separate sovereign nation in exchange for Ukraine's recognition of Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk as independent states of Russia.
Does he have any choice?  With the US empire / NATO balking at direct military intervention, what good is it for the people of Ukraine to continue a war of annihilation?



This would mean that Ukraine will no longer apply for NATO membership.
Better off for them.  Being a neutral nation means they can trade and continue to make money on both the US empire / NATO and the Russian Federation in perpetuity without worrying about hurting the feelings of both sides.



If he is serious about the above then maybe an end to this crisis is on the horizon.
Let's pray for that.  The sooner, the better chances to avert more economic inflation caused by the unilateral sanctions against Russia and everyone else not allied with the US empire.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #485 on: March 08, 2022, 03:08:54 PM »
" It would not take too long before the people are being starved out. "
I've thought about this at length.
I have a "hobby farm" and I'm surrounded by the same, as well as Farms that operate as a full time business
and ranches with thousands of head of cattle.  Plus I'm one of those "Prepper" types.
Tools, food, water, et al, survival stuff.

The problem as I see it is the towns, where people can't/won't do that sort of preparation.
Lucky the BI has a small population that is concentrated in a few towns, very far apart in very challenging
terrain.  I'm sure I will live in 18th century style with no problem.

Oahu isn't so lucky.
No offense to Oahu guys but Honolulu will not be missed.

If everything goes the "A Canticle for Leibowitz" route you have what you have.

Good luck and God speed.
 :wave:

The problem with having a garden and knowing how to hunt & clean your game is you are competing with others.  Your crops take time to grow.  Once a crop is harvested, how long will that last for just one person?  For three people?  A dozen?  How many are you going to share with because you have family or friends that have nothing to eat?

Then there's the need to have that dozen people in your group so you can protect what is yours.  It's a symbiotic problem: are they contributing to the growing,, harvesting, scavenging, cooking and protection of YOUR food?  If not, do they qualify to partake?  Are you running a charity for those who CAN'T contribute?

When the shelves are bare -- at the stores, restaurants and your cupboard -- and the animals have been hunted out, how will you get what you and your group need?  Fish?  That's always a good plan, if the fish cooperate. 

You will eventually become the group that takes from others, just as you defended against those kinds of groups in the beginning.

Being a "prepper," you'd need to plan for X number of days with food and water enough for Y number of people.  If that means stocking up on pallets of MREs and cases upon cases of SPAM and wheat, canning what comes out of the garden each year (which only stores for a year or two if you're lucky), and raising livestock for milk, butter, eggs and meat, that's a whole lot of work and resources to prepare for something that will likely never happen.

IMHO, you either have to live the life as if you're already required to be self-sufficient, or you decide how much is enough for a short-term emergency.  Anything else is going to be a losing proposition from a cost/benefit perspective.  Hopefully living that life now helps answer the question, "Will I have enough for all the people I will depend on?"
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #486 on: March 08, 2022, 03:10:28 PM »
Does he have any choice?  With the US empire / NATO balking at direct military intervention, what good is it for the people of Ukraine to continue a war of annihilation?


Better off for them.  Being a neutral nation means they can trade and continue to make money on both the US empire / NATO and the Russian Federation in perpetuity without worrying about hurting the feelings of both sides.


Let's pray for that.  The sooner, the better chances to avert more economic inflation caused by the unilateral sanctions against Russia and everyone else not allied with the US empire.
The wrench in the machine.
Poland just decided to dump all their Mig 29's

https://www.theepochtimes.com/poland-to-send-all-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-us-base-amid-ukraine-conflict_4324640.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=gp

Engines don't last too long and you have to depend on Russians for engines.
You hate the "empire" what airplanes will we give Poland, in exchange?
My bet is an "X" fighter.
Empire strikes back style.
 :geekdanc:

RSN172

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #487 on: March 08, 2022, 03:36:50 PM »

.....decide how much is enough for a short-term emergency.  Anything else is going to be a losing proposition from a cost/benefit perspective.  Hopefully living that life now helps answer the question, "Will I have enough for all the people I will depend on?"

That is why I want to be at ground zero on the first strike so I don't have to suffer dealing with the aftermath. It would be a painless death in a few milliseconds.
Happily living in Puna

groveler

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #488 on: March 08, 2022, 03:39:47 PM »
The problem with having a garden and knowing how to hunt & clean your game is you are competing with others.  Your crops take time to grow.  Once a crop is harvested, how long will that last for just one person?  For three people?  A dozen?  How many are you going to share with because you have family or friends that have nothing to eat?

Then there's the need to have that dozen people in your group so you can protect what is yours.  It's a symbiotic problem: are they contributing to the growing,, harvesting, scavenging, cooking and protection of YOUR food?  If not, do they qualify to partake?  Are you running a charity for those who CAN'T contribute?

When the shelves are bare -- at the stores, restaurants and your cupboard -- and the animals have been hunted out, how will you get what you and your group need?  Fish?  That's always a good plan, if the fish cooperate. 

You will eventually become the group that takes from others, just as you defended against those kinds of groups in the beginning.

Being a "prepper," you'd need to plan for X number of days with food and water enough for Y number of people.  If that means stocking up on pallets of MREs and cases upon cases of SPAM and wheat, canning what comes out of the garden each year (which only stores for a year or two if you're lucky), and raising livestock for milk, butter, eggs and meat, that's a whole lot of work and resources to prepare for something that will likely never happen.

IMHO, you either have to live the life as if you're already required to be self-sufficient, or you decide how much is enough for a short-term emergency.  Anything else is going to be a losing proposition from a cost/benefit perspective.  Hopefully living that life now helps answer the question, "Will I have enough for all the people I will depend on?"
I think you kind of missed my point.
There aren't going to be that many people I have to compete with.
The only people I'll have to deal with are people that cooperate.
The adversarial types won't make it very far from their cities.
Which is my point.  This isn't MadMax.
it is the "Survival rule of 3".

Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

hvybarrels

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #489 on: March 08, 2022, 03:43:15 PM »
The wrench in the machine.
Poland just decided to dump all their Mig 29's

https://www.theepochtimes.com/poland-to-send-all-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-us-base-amid-ukraine-conflict_4324640.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=gp

Engines don't last too long and you have to depend on Russians for engines.
You hate the "empire" what airplanes will we give Poland, in exchange?
My bet is an "X" fighter.
Empire strikes back style.
 :geekdanc:

"Hey you guys wanna buy some f-35's?"

Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #490 on: March 08, 2022, 03:57:11 PM »
The wrench in the machine.  Poland just decided to dump all their Mig 29's

https://www.theepochtimes.com/poland-to-send-all-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-us-base-amid-ukraine-conflict_4324640.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=gp

Engines don't last too long and you have to depend on Russians for engines.  You hate the "empire" what airplanes will we give Poland, in exchange?
I highly doubt Poland just decided to dump their Mig 29's.

It more smells like agents of the US imperial congressional military industrial complex had a hand in that decision.  If true, don't be surprised to see the US empire's ultrawealthy swoop in and provide American-made replacement fighters and scheduled parts and maintenance for a hefty fee that cash strap Poland will undoubtably borrow the money from the Federal Reserve furthering their debt servitude to the US empire. 

The US empire's Power Okole and ultrawealthy are so treacherously predictable.

macsak

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #491 on: March 08, 2022, 04:16:27 PM »
they want to send the mig 29s to ukraine and have the us sell them f16s

The wrench in the machine.
Poland just decided to dump all their Mig 29's

https://www.theepochtimes.com/poland-to-send-all-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-us-base-amid-ukraine-conflict_4324640.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=gp

Engines don't last too long and you have to depend on Russians for engines.
You hate the "empire" what airplanes will we give Poland, in exchange?
My bet is an "X" fighter.
Empire strikes back style.
 :geekdanc:

groveler

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #492 on: March 08, 2022, 04:18:23 PM »
I highly doubt Poland just decided to dump their Mig 29's.

It more smells like agents of the US imperial congressional military industrial complex had a hand in that decision.  If true, don't be surprised to see the US empire's ultrawealthy swoop in and provide American-made replacement fighters and scheduled parts and maintenance for a hefty fee that cash strap Poland will undoubtably borrow the money from the Federal Reserve furthering their debt servitude to the US empire. 

The US empire's Power Okole and ultrawealthy are so treacherously predictable.
All Polish Mig 29's at Ramstein AFB is not BS.
Poland is now NATO so Russian aircraft aren't all
that compatible C3 wise.
For all the Democrats bitch about the F-35, everyone seems to want one
except USA Democrats and America haters.
Poles just ordered a batch of them a while back.
BTW a Euro fighter costs more and isn't as capable.
 :geekdanc:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #493 on: March 08, 2022, 04:48:45 PM »
When the US was assisting Saudi Arabia with their E-3 AWACS program, we deployed 4 US E-3s to the ELF-ONE mission there.  They rotated every 3 weeks, so the crews were not as likely to suffer from fatigue.  Training missions are one thing, but day after day of 24/7 operations with 4 aircraft and crews performing 15-16 hour missions takes its toll.  Missions were 12 hours on station, but it took a couple of hours at least for the relief E-3 to get to the mission area, do a handoff from the bird on station of all their data, then have the relieved bird travel back to base and check the classified materials into our library.

Anyway, the Saudis finally got their delivery of AWACS E-3s from Boeing.  They were BEAUTIFUL!  Whereas the US was still using repurposed Boeing 737 airframes, the Saudis ordered theirs "customized."  They had all new avionics and high-efficiency engines that could produce much more thrust than the standard 737 power plants.

Even though there were electronics systems we could not legally export to them, I'm sure the replacement tech was state-of-the-art.  Seems like the US military is always 3-4 generations behind the current technology -- or more.  Cost is one factor, but it's mostly the procurement process.  By the time requirements are defined, systems are sourced from vendors,  integration companies are selected, and testing and maintenance plans are resourced and funded, it takes years from approval to final release.  By then, the technology that was approved is 3 years out of date minimum.

Sometimes getting the latest and greatest turns your organization into a beta-test Guinea Pig.  But, more often than not, it keeps you years behind what could be fielded all for the sake of a process that often fields obsolete architectures from day one.

Case in point, we had a ground planning system that was fielded using 286 PC workstations,  When the prototype was approved for field testing, the current PC architecture was 486 technology.  We wound up having to upgrade after the first month of testing.   :wtf:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aieahound

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #494 on: March 08, 2022, 04:56:40 PM »
Give ‘em 42 A-10 Warthogs. (The amount the military want to retire)
They would wreak havoc on the convoys until they’re shot down.

aieahound

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #495 on: March 08, 2022, 05:49:29 PM »
Americans, South Koreans, Belarusians joining the fight.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #496 on: March 08, 2022, 05:51:53 PM »
Americans, South Koreans, Belarusians joining the fight.
Sounds like the start of a mini-WWIII.

mrgaf

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #497 on: March 08, 2022, 06:05:16 PM »
As the Ukrainian conflict is in its 2nd week, it becomes clear that the US empire / NATO has blinked and for now are beginning to abandon their dreams of expanding its dominion into Ukraine to further surround Russia with short to mid-range nuclear missiles.  As a consolation, the US empire has weakened the Russian economy, kicked them out of SWIFT, indefinitely halted the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from Russia to Germany, and strengthened its imperial grip on Western Europe.

As for US imperial puppet Zelensky, he may or may not be left to his fate at the hands of the Russians, once Kiev falls, and will have a lot of time to contemplate and remorse his trusting of his US imperial handlers that led to the truly unnecessary devastating war in his country.

Cool beans!
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

QUIETShooter

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #498 on: March 08, 2022, 06:29:36 PM »
Unlike Zelensky, who has balls the size of Mt. Everest but a bit naive in diplomacy, Pootin knew that there was only so much NATO and the US would and could do.

Meanwhile, Ukraine stands in ruins....... :(
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #499 on: March 08, 2022, 07:08:27 PM »
Meanwhile, Ukraine stands in ruins....... :(
The devastation of Ukraine is no one's fault but Zelensky.  If he did in fact believe he was in control of the situation, he is the most foolish and naive leader in the 21st century. 

Maybe not in the continental US, but anyone else in the World with the slightest knowledge of the geopolitics knows, that it was the US empire since 2014 and, until the Russian take Kiev, is still calling the shots in Ukraine.