Ukraine vs. Russia (Read 336664 times)

Jaco808

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1500 on: November 19, 2024, 09:37:38 PM »
If this is such a good idea, how come Brandon didn't allow these sooner?

Not sure. Glad he changed his mind.  I think he rationalized it with Russia bringing in North Korea to the war.  That's an escalation so we can do the "same".

zippz

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1501 on: November 19, 2024, 11:32:52 PM »
If Trump can broker a peace deal, I consider the US defense agreement to Ukraine to be filled.  If not, I'm sure Trump will drastically ramp up military production until Russia gives in.

Ukraines new ability to hit targets in Russia probably has something to do with the Trump-Biden-Zelinsky meeting.  Trump probably told Biden what he wanted and Biden did it since he has nothing to lose.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1502 on: November 19, 2024, 11:54:19 PM »
They are not sending that much money,  they are giving money to USA defense contractors and sending ammo.  It's not hard to understand.

Figures you haven't been paying attention.

This is what we've sent as of the beginning of September.  I posted about more that another $425M was approved in September/October.

i highlighted the part below that disputes your claim.

Quote
Since the war began, the U.S. Congress has voted through five bills that
have provided Ukraine with ongoing aid, doing so most recently in April
2024. The total budget authority under these bills—the “headline” figure
often cited by news media—is $175 billion. The historic sums are helping
a broad set of Ukrainian people and institutions, including refugees, law
enforcement, and independent radio broadcasters, though most of the
aid has been military-related.
Dozens of other countries, including most
members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the European
Union (EU), are also providing large aid packages to Ukraine.

Take a stab at how much of that money spent on arms helps the recipients contribute to foundations, campaign coffers, PACS and other expenses which benefit the politicians approving this money?

$69.8B of the $106B sent directly to Ukraine as "aid" is for weapons, equipment and other military support. 

$105.2B of that $106B is funneled through the Ukraine government and some makes it back into politician's pockets.  I suggest you revisit the Hunter Biden "career" in energy that provided 10% to "the big guy."



https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1503 on: November 20, 2024, 07:02:46 AM »
If Trump can broker a peace deal, I consider the US defense agreement to Ukraine to be filled.  If not, I'm sure Trump will drastically ramp up military production until Russia gives in.
What does "Russia give in" mean?  If Trump escalates, do you think the Russians will back down?

The Ukrainians are all but defeated in the war with Russia using their ground and pound attrition strategy.

macsak

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1504 on: November 20, 2024, 07:10:56 AM »
didn't you say it was over like a year and a half ago?

goalposts moved...

What does "Russia give in" mean?  If Trump escalates, do you think the Russians will back down?

The Ukrainians are all but defeated in the war with Russia using their ground and pound attrition strategy.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 08:02:43 AM by macsak »

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1505 on: November 20, 2024, 07:46:22 AM »
Peace?  That's not how peace works.   How would you like it if someone took your only way to defend yourself away.  Your friend who been supporting you comes and takes all your 2a rights and ammo. Cause you don't need it,  just have peace.  No need self defense.

And yes if you get elected and change sides clearly you are picking one side and in this case it would be Russia.

Your statement makes no sense.

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1506 on: November 20, 2024, 07:47:22 AM »
They are not sending that much money, 

Another statement that makes no sense.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1507 on: November 20, 2024, 09:08:31 AM »
didn't you say it was over like a year and a half ago?

goalposts moved...
Ukraine was already defeated a year and a half ago.

The only thing that kept the war barely going on all this time is the hopefully soon-to-be ended financial aid and the sending of mercenaries, CIA paramilitary, contractors, weapons, etc. requisitioned from the US empire and NATO who have been and are still mercilessly sacrificed to the Russian meat grinder.

macsak

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1508 on: November 20, 2024, 09:15:28 AM »
Ukraine was already defeated a year and a half ago.

The only thing that kept the war barely going on all this time is the hopefully soon-to-be ended financial aid and the sending of mercenaries, CIA paramilitary, contractors, weapons, etc. requisitioned from the US empire and NATO who have been and are still mercilessly sacrificed to the Russian meat grinder.

please prove there are large numbers of mercenaries/CIA/contractors serving in ukraine...

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1509 on: November 20, 2024, 09:23:25 AM »
please prove there are large numbers of mercenaries/CIA/contractors serving in ukraine...
You should verify your own inquires yourself.  However, you can begin your journey here:











macsak

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1510 on: November 20, 2024, 09:25:42 AM »
you made the claim, you back it up...

You should verify your own inquires yourself.  However, you can begin your journey here:












zippz

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1511 on: November 20, 2024, 09:33:32 AM »
What does "Russia give in" mean?  If Trump escalates, do you think the Russians will back down?

The Ukrainians are all but defeated in the war with Russia using their ground and pound attrition strategy.

Russia is in a bad spot too and desperate.  Their military stocks are being depleted which could make them vulnerable to China.  They are economically screwed as defense makes up 21% of their budget and they are going into debt.  The economy is shrinking and they can't grow it due to the war.  They also have one of the biggest population declines in the world due to not enough people being born and the young people dying and fleeing the country is making it worse.

If Putin pushes the war too far, he will get ousted.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1512 on: November 20, 2024, 10:02:11 AM »
You should verify your own inquires yourself.  However, you can begin your journey here:
[snip]

 :wtf:

Hindustan Times?   You really had to dig for those "facts", huh?

Quote
Overall, we rate the Hindustan Times Left-Center Biased
and questionable due to poor sourcing, numerous failed
fact checks, and the promotion of propaganda.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/hindustan-times/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1513 on: November 20, 2024, 10:08:58 AM »
lul
koolio provided other sources too...

:wtf:

Hindustan Times?   You really had to dig for those "facts", huh?
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/hindustan-times/

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1514 on: November 20, 2024, 10:16:14 AM »
lul
koolio provided other sources too...

I stopped looking into his questionable sources after that one since he posted them multiple times.

i made my point.  Don't tell someone else to verify their own inquiries if this is the best you can do.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1515 on: November 20, 2024, 10:26:03 AM »
6000 in 3 years is not large numbers
especially when the source is the russian ministry of defense...

you made the claim, you back it up...

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1516 on: November 20, 2024, 10:29:49 AM »
I can guarantee there are spooks in Ukraine. But not in "great numbers". Same with merc's.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1517 on: November 20, 2024, 10:31:06 AM »
6000 in 3 years is not large numbers
especially when the source is the russian ministry of defense...
And how many of those were rotated, meaning at any given time the number would be less.  That's only 3000 if half deployed for a year, another 3000 rotated in the 2nd year, then the first 3000 relieved that 3000.  6000 cumulative doesn't mean 6000 on the ground.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 01:10:41 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1518 on: November 20, 2024, 11:46:36 AM »
you made the claim, you back it up...
You disagreed with the claim, you should provide evidence to suggest the contrary...

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1519 on: November 20, 2024, 11:52:09 AM »
Russia is in a bad spot too and desperate.  Their military stocks are being depleted which could make them vulnerable to China.  They are economically screwed as defense makes up 21% of their budget and they are going into debt.  The economy is shrinking and they can't grow it due to the war.  They also have one of the biggest population declines in the world due to not enough people being born and the young people dying and fleeing the country is making it worse.

If Putin pushes the war too far, he will get ousted.
Putin does not have the enemies like Trump does and dreams of a Russia without Putin is exactly what the oligarchs of the US empire thinks and hopes.

The Russian economy is not shrinking and doing just fine, albeit, thanks to BRICS.