Ukraine vs. Russia (Read 336542 times)

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1620 on: November 22, 2024, 08:08:50 AM »
It's now apparent Biden is trying to screw things up in Gaza, Iran, Ukraine and Russia so completely that it'll be next to impossible for Trump to fix it all in 4 short years.  I think he can, but it depends on whether there's anything left to salvage.

Biden is also giving the US military industrial complex one last infusion of tax payer funded revenue before Trump has a chance to deescalate anything.

When I say Biden, I of course mean Jill and/or his other handlers.
Seeing how you approve of the US imperial proxy war against Russia, you must ecstatic with what the oligarchs are doing via the senile old fool.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1621 on: November 22, 2024, 08:22:39 AM »
It's really kinda sad. Generation after generation being told we have the "greatest military on earth" and propagandized to believe might makes right.
They have no idea how badly our capabilities have degraded and sooner or later the crushing defeat will come that no one will be able to brush off and ignore.
The Afghanistan withdraw should have been a wake up call. We can't even secure a 3rd world runway, never mind stand up to a conventional force.
It also goes to show how there are neocons and imperialists on this forum.

Instead of supporting any movement to end the Ukrainian war exactly what Trump wants to do, you have the resident warmongers on this forum who still believe the US empire can win that conflict if it ups the ante and are willing to risk nuclear war whether Putin is bluffing or not regarding the use of nuclear weapons.

The US empire lost a 20-year illegal war in Afghanistan that nobody wanted; it can't control the Houthis in their war with Israel; and now they are still setting the stage for another proxy war against China via the Philippine and/or Taiwan which the same imperialist(s) on this forum will most likely find a way to justify another war in their own minds as well as convince others to do the same.

Insanity...

hvybarrels

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1622 on: November 22, 2024, 08:24:02 AM »


On the bright side they won't invade because it would remind them too much of Afghanistan

Is an armadillo just a tactical opossum?

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1623 on: November 22, 2024, 08:34:32 AM »
Wait, are you saying i've succeeded in justifying and supporting any conflict started by the US?

So, you must think my comments are on point if they justify those actions.

So, let's get a list.  Name one military conflict in the last 100 years the US "started."  That means the US was the aggressor and the first to use violence.

Think carefully.
Similar to the legal basis regarding the illegal annexation and ongoing occupation of Hawaii by the US empire, I have shared and justified in numerous posts over the years the illegality of the wars the US empire has instigated and participated since WWII many times on this forum.

It is clear you feel all the military actions provoked, instigated, and taken by the US empire since WWII are legal, righteous, and just.  It is sad that known imperialists, neocons, and anti-Russia/China warmongers like Kissinger, Bolton, Lindsey Graham, etc. would agree, support, and applaud all of your efforts.

Tragic...

 :stopjack:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1624 on: November 22, 2024, 11:23:06 AM »
Similar to the legal basis regarding the illegal annexation and ongoing occupation of Hawaii by the US empire, I have shared and justified in numerous posts over the years the illegality of the wars the US empire has instigated and participated since WWII many times on this forum.

It is clear you feel all the military actions provoked, instigated, and taken by the US empire since WWII are legal, righteous, and just.  It is sad that known imperialists, neocons, and anti-Russia/China warmongers like Kissinger, Bolton, Lindsey Graham, etc. would agree, support, and applaud all of your efforts.

Tragic...

 :stopjack:

The only thing that is clear is you enjoy putting words in my virtual mouth so you can then plaster your opinions ad nauseam on every thread you participate in.

Not just clear -- painfully obvious.

I often wonder how you sleep at night after each time you use  :stopjack: .  That's like Satan taking communion.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1625 on: November 22, 2024, 11:39:18 AM »
Some of the YTube channels out there are wondering if we have an immature child as our outgoing POTUS.

Wah wah wah.  If I can't be pwesident den I will pock up ebryting.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1626 on: November 22, 2024, 12:08:54 PM »
It also goes to show how there are neocons and imperialists on this forum.

Instead of supporting any movement to end the Ukrainian war exactly what Trump wants to do, you have the resident warmongers on this forum who still believe the US empire can win that conflict if it ups the ante and are willing to risk nuclear war whether Putin is bluffing or not regarding the use of nuclear weapons.

The US empire lost a 20-year illegal war in Afghanistan that nobody wanted; it can't control the Houthis in their war with Israel; and now they are still setting the stage for another proxy war against China via the Philippine and/or Taiwan which the same imperialist(s) on this forum will most likely find a way to justify another war in their own minds as well as convince others to do the same.

Insanity...

To which forum members, precisely, are you referring?  Don't beat around the bush.  Rather than anonymously attack some forum members as warmongers, you should be confident enough to name them directly.

Passive-aggressive behavior is a Democrat trait, though not exclusively.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1627 on: November 22, 2024, 12:21:15 PM »
Seeing how you approve of the US imperial proxy war against Russia, you must ecstatic with what the oligarchs are doing via the senile old fool.

You're either mentally ill or have limited reading skills (potentially both) if you believe that.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Jaco808

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1628 on: November 22, 2024, 02:20:06 PM »
say you know nothing about MAD without saying you know nothing about MAD

That's the whole point.  He won't nuke us because we have more nukes and they actually work. 

hvybarrels

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1629 on: November 22, 2024, 02:45:13 PM »
That's the whole point.  He won't nuke us because we have more nukes and they actually work.

Is an armadillo just a tactical opossum?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1630 on: November 22, 2024, 02:51:28 PM »
That's the whole point.  He won't nuke us because we have more nukes and they actually work.

Based on what information source?

The US is in a nuclear race to
keep up with China and Russia...
it’s losing

Quote
Pentagon estimates suggest that Beijing will have 1,500 operable nuclear
weapons by 2035.

It will mean for the first time since the end of the Cold War, Washington will
have to contend with more than just a single adversary considered a nuclear
superpower.

And to make matters worse, both the Russians and Chinese have only recently
signed a treaty of “friendship without limits”, cementing their opposition to the
Western world order.

Both Moscow and Beijing pose their own challenges to the United States.

Vladimir Putin has repeatedly flirted with the prospect of a nuclear war since
invading Ukraine, a Western ally, in February 2022.

The Russian despot most recently signed into law lower thresholds for the use
of nuclear weapons, in response to increased Western support to Ukraine.

Whereas China has eyes on the seizure of Taiwan, another US ally and vital
for the global supply of microchips.
Quote
This is why there is a growing chorus of voices inside and outside of
government in Washington that argue for America’s nuclear deterrent to be
modernised at an accelerated rate.
Quote
These are timely and costly, and often are not finished by the time the
president’s term comes to a close.

Russia, if its leaders are to be believed, has already completed its own
modernisation programme of its nuclear weapons programme.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-nuclear-race-keep-china-231858642.html

And that's not even considering Iran or N. Korea when they begin stockpiling nukes.  That's when, not if.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1631 on: November 22, 2024, 02:54:42 PM »
That's the whole point.  He won't nuke us because we have more nukes and they actually work.



Posted on Mar 2, 2022
Quote
Russia inherited the nuclear arsenal of the former Soviet Union, which before
it was dissolved in 1991 also stored nuclear weapons in Belarus, Ukraine, and
Kazakhstan. Those warheads were all returned to Russia in the 1990s. Russia
had the ability to maintain and authorize the use of those warheads, in part
because Russians staffed nuclear divisions. Also, the actual controls preventing
unauthorized use of nuclear weapons were held in Moscow.

Russia has the largest arsenal, which FAS estimates at 5,977 warheads, with
the United States having the second-largest arsenal, at 5,428. China has the
third largest at an estimated 350 warheads. The US’s fellow NATO defensive
alliance members France and the United Kingdom each have 290 and 225
warheads, respectively.
https://www.popsci.com/technology/nuclear-weapons-explained/
« Last Edit: November 22, 2024, 03:10:07 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1632 on: November 22, 2024, 03:06:07 PM »
That's the whole point.  He won't nuke us because we have more nukes and they actually work. 

Define "nukes."

It's not just about the number of nuclear missiles.  It's about the number of warheads each can launch and deploy.  If the country has 10 times the number of warheads as it does missiles, how many "nukes" would that constitute? 

One MIRV type missile can contain as many as 16 independent warheads, making the interception of all of them in a relatively broad area almost impossible.

The US Trident II missile can deploy up to 14 warheads.

The Russian RS-28 Sarmat missile can carry up to 15 warheads.

In short, it only takes one missile to destroy as many as 14-15 cities, so saying the US has more "working nukes" is a ridiculous argument.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1633 on: November 22, 2024, 03:45:32 PM »
That's the whole point.  He won't nuke us because we have more nukes and they actually work.

And here's the goalpost moving. It's a common theme when feelings is used vs. facts.

Jaco808

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1634 on: November 22, 2024, 04:35:17 PM »
I guess I should be more exact.   We [allied powers] have more working nukes than them.   Working as in launchable.  Not sitting in a warehouse.  Nukes as in nuclear devices that reliably detonate.   One nuke will do X dmg depending on size but it's not enough to destroy most cities. 

In the end the point was no one is willing to destroy themselves over this.   They started the war,  they escalated.  We are only responding appropriately. 

 If somehow in fantasy land they do,  then let's all die. I refuse to live in a world that dictators and communists can scream nukes and do whatever they want against us.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2024, 04:40:41 PM by Jaco808 »

ren

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1635 on: November 22, 2024, 04:55:12 PM »
I guess I should be more exact.   We [allied powers] have more working nukes than them.   Working as in launchable.  Not sitting in a warehouse.  Nukes as in nuclear devices that reliably detonate.   One nuke will do X dmg depending on size but it's not enough to destroy most cities. 

In the end the point was no one is willing to destroy themselves over this.   They started the war,  they escalated.  We are only responding appropriately. 

 If somehow in fantasy land they do,  then let's all die. I refuse to live in a world that dictators and communists can scream nukes and do whatever they want against us.

You approach this with the mindset of Tic Tac Toe while they are playing chess. You've only selectively digested what the media has put out.
Deeds Not Words

QUIETShooter

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1636 on: November 22, 2024, 04:59:05 PM »
That's the whole point.  He won't nuke us because we have more nukes and they actually work.

There's internet articles out there that shows Russia has more warheads than the US.  And sources say Russia's nuclear arsenal is at 95% working order.

And as I mentioned earlier, the possibility of Russia using nuclear weapons on Ukraine might be the check-mate move because it's questionable whether the western countries will retaliate in kind (WW3, something biden fails to understand..... ::)) due to Ukraine not being a NATO member.  The western bloc just might say, "Oh well, we tried....." and abandon Ukraine all together.

This is Russia's last resort move since a nuclear bomb(s) on Ukraine would devastate the country's economy and infrastructure, something Russia doesn't really want to do. 

WW3 can still happen.  When Russia threatened to retaliate by hitting US and UK targets, it doesn't have to be with nuclear warheads.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1637 on: November 22, 2024, 05:35:13 PM »
I guess I should be more exact.   We [allied powers] have more working nukes than them.   Working as in launchable.  Not sitting in a warehouse.  Nukes as in nuclear devices that reliably detonate.   One nuke will do X dmg depending on size but it's not enough to destroy most cities. 

In the end the point was no one is willing to destroy themselves over this.   They started the war,  they escalated.  We are only responding appropriately. 

 If somehow in fantasy land they do,  then let's all die. I refuse to live in a world that dictators and communists can scream nukes and do whatever they want against us.

Are you sure about that?

Fat man -- code name for the US bomb detonated over Nagasaki in 1945.  From an altitude of 1,650 feet, the bomb was dropped and detonated.  Due to cloud cover the bomb missed its intended detonation point by almost two miles, so the damage was somewhat less extensive than that in Hiroshima.

Blast yield:  21 kilotons of TNT
Quote
An estimated 35,000–40,000 people were killed outright by the bombing at Nagasaki.
A total of 60,000–80,000 fatalities resulted, including from long-term health effects,
the strongest of which was leukemia with an attributable risk of 46% for bomb victims.[59]
Others died later from related blast and burn injuries, and hundreds more from
radiation illnesses from exposure to the bomb's initial radiation.[60] Most of the direct
deaths and injuries were among munitions or industrial workers.[61]

Mitsubishi's industrial production in the city was severed by the attack; the dockyard
would have produced at 80 percent of its full capacity within three to four months, the
steelworks would have required a year to get back to substantial production, the electric
works would have resumed some production within two months and been back at
capacity within six months, and the arms plant would have required 15 months to return
to 60 to 70 percent of former capacity. The Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works, which
manufactured the Type 91 torpedoes released in the attack on Pearl Harbor, was
destroyed in the blast.[61][62]

Little Boy -- code name for the US bomb detonated over Hiroshima in 1945. 

Blast yield:  15 kilotons of TNT
Quote
The detonation happened at an altitude of 1,968 ± 50 feet (600 ± 15 m). It
was less powerful than the Fat Man, which was dropped on Nagasaki, but
the damage and the number of victims at Hiroshima were much higher, as
Hiroshima was on flat terrain, while the hypocenter of Nagasaki lay in a
small valley.

According to figures published in 1945, 66,000 people were killed as a direct
result of the Hiroshima blast, and 69,000 were injured to varying degrees.[40]
Later estimates put the deaths as high as 140,000 people.[41] The United States
Strategic Bombing Survey estimated that out of 24,158 Imperial Japanese Army
soldiers in Hiroshima at the time of the bombing, 6,789 were killed or missing
as a result of the bombing.[42]

Those 2 bombs yielded 15 & 21 kilotons, destroyed the two largest industrialized cities in Japan during the height of WWII, and are the only 2 nukes ever used on a population center.  Hundreds of thousands of people died, and the industrial factories churning out war related weapons, parts and machines were destroyed.

The largest nuke the US has tested yielded 15 megatons in 1954.  Current warheads are estimated to generate in the range of 15-25 megatons.

Do that math.  And here's a hint: 

1 kiloton     = An explosive force equivalent to that of 1,000         metric tons of TNT.
1 megaton = An explosive force equivalent to that of  1,000,000 metric tons of TNT.

A single megaton is equal to 1,000 kilotons.  Thus, a 15 MT nuke is 1,000 times more powerful than a 15 KT nuke.

The lagest nuke we ever tested was 1,000 times more powerful than Little Boy.  That one test nuke could have destroyed 1,000 Hiroshima size cities.  What we have in our arsenal can take out any city we want with just one warhead.

Russia's lagest test nuke was 50 MT in 1990. 

Get some facts before you post more nonsense.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1638 on: November 22, 2024, 05:37:19 PM »
You approach this with the mindset of Tic Tac Toe while they are playing chess. You've only selectively digested what the media has put out.

I'm not convinced he's paying even that much attention.

It sounds like most of his "data" comes from video games, movies and stuff he made up.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1639 on: November 22, 2024, 06:20:20 PM »
Deeds Not Words