Ukraine vs. Russia (Read 311431 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1840 on: May 29, 2025, 09:20:17 AM »
Ah snap. Russian drone factor 300 miles inside Russia was hit with Ukraine drones.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1841 on: May 29, 2025, 11:48:08 AM »
I had high hopes but low expectations Trump could get Putin to talk peace but more and more it seems my expectations were the more accurate angle. The author of the art of the deal seems to be the object of manipulation by Putin more than anything else. Waiting to see if that makes Trump angry enough to actually do something about it.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2025, 12:03:20 PM by eyeeatingfish »

macsak

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1842 on: May 29, 2025, 11:54:15 AM »
huh?

I had high hopes but low expectations Trump could get Putin to talk peace but more and more it seems my expectations were the more accurate angle. The author of the art of the deal seems to be the object of manipulation by Trump more than anything else. Waiting to see if that makes Trump angry enough to actually do something about it.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1843 on: May 29, 2025, 12:03:34 PM »

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1844 on: May 29, 2025, 12:08:33 PM »
I had high hopes but low expectations Trump could get Putin to talk peace but more and more it seems my expectations were the more accurate angle. The author of the art of the deal seems to be the object of manipulation by Putin more than anything else. Waiting to see if that makes Trump angry enough to actually do something about it.

Putin talked peace way more than under Brandon.  So how much peace talks are needed in order to meet your higher expectation?

We have seen what Trump can do with everything that's he's done.  Do you expect him to have a 100% success rate? I will assume since the book came out, he hasn't been 100% successful in his deals.

Due to Zelink's inability to control himself, we should just stop everything and walk away. Let the EU deal with this as it's closer to their front door.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1845 on: May 29, 2025, 12:17:02 PM »
Putin talked peace way more than under Brandon.  So how much peace talks are needed in order to meet your higher expectation?

We have seen what Trump can do with everything that's he's done.  Do you expect him to have a 100% success rate? I will assume since the book came out, he hasn't been 100% successful in his deals.

Due to Zelink's inability to control himself, we should just stop everything and walk away. Let the EU deal with this as it's closer to their front door.

Talked peace? He feigned interest in peace meanwhile giving Trump and Ukraine the middle finger by launching attack during the "talks".

Can you point to any real accomplishment by Trump who claimed he would end the war in days of being elected? All Trump has done was talk gently to the aggressor who manipulates him, talks tough to the victim of the war, and claims the war never would have started if he were in power. I wish Trump could manage to end the war but his big talk is coming back to make him look foolish.

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1846 on: May 29, 2025, 12:24:58 PM »
Talked peace? He feigned interest in peace meanwhile giving Trump and Ukraine the middle finger by launching attack during the "talks".

Can you point to any real accomplishment by Trump who claimed he would end the war in days of being elected? All Trump has done was talk gently to the aggressor who manipulates him, talks tough to the victim of the war, and claims the war never would have started if he were in power. I wish Trump could manage to end the war but his big talk is coming back to make him look foolish.

Do you have proof that Putin ordered said attack?  I mean, there's no way that it was pre-planned at all right. #objective.

He obviously didn't end the war in days of being elected. Are you saying that he needs to have a 100% success rate of anything that he says? 

His accomplishment would be that he had them come to the bargaining table. Peace cannot happen unless this happens first.  It sounds like you think that all of a sudden, both sides will lay their arms down and shake hands.  They must be clairvoyant in order to do this at the same time.  Now everyone has this ability.

How would you wish Trump could manage to end the war?  We know that Russia wants part of Ukraine, but UKraine wasn't willing to give this portion of land up in fear that Russia would just invade again and take more. So tell us Mr. Master War Ender what your plan would be. Do you want the US or it's allies to put boots on the ground?

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1847 on: May 29, 2025, 12:37:37 PM »
Do you have proof that Putin ordered said attack?  I mean, there's no way that it was pre-planned at all right. #objective.

He obviously didn't end the war in days of being elected. Are you saying that he needs to have a 100% success rate of anything that he says? 

His accomplishment would be that he had them come to the bargaining table. Peace cannot happen unless this happens first.  It sounds like you think that all of a sudden, both sides will lay their arms down and shake hands.  They must be clairvoyant in order to do this at the same time.  Now everyone has this ability.

How would you wish Trump could manage to end the war?  We know that Russia wants part of Ukraine, but UKraine wasn't willing to give this portion of land up in fear that Russia would just invade again and take more. So tell us Mr. Master War Ender what your plan would be. Do you want the US or it's allies to put boots on the ground?

So you are suggesting Putin doesn't have control over his own army?

I am saying the president shouldn't make big grand promises he can't keep. How about a reasonable promise like saying he would do his best to end the war.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1848 on: May 29, 2025, 12:50:03 PM »
So you are suggesting Putin doesn't have control over his own army?

I am saying the president shouldn't make big grand promises he can't keep. How about a reasonable promise like saying he would do his best to end the war.
Military leaders have different roles.  in the US, the President sets policy, some rules of engagement, and strategic objectives.  The combatant commanders, usually at the theater level, plan and execute the actual missions.  Trump is not being briefed on every planned mission.  He only gets briefed on the overall plan and the results.

I would imagine Putin and his armies are the same.  Assuming any nation's leader is involved in planning and carrying out every military action would be objectively naive and uninformed.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1849 on: May 29, 2025, 12:54:41 PM »
So you are suggesting Putin doesn't have control over his own army?

I am saying the president shouldn't make big grand promises he can't keep. How about a reasonable promise like saying he would do his best to end the war.

I'm saying that you have no idea how the military works in regard to your statement for this particular circumstance.

Wow, so now you want the POTUS to not make affirmative statements like ending a war. 

The diff between a strong leader and a weak leader.

Since this is relevant, Trump said Hamas better return all the hostages (US) before he takes office or else.  They didn't. But a recently interviewed released hostage stated once Trump took office, Hamas's treatment of him and others were much better.  They were afraid of what Trump will do.

So Trump didn't keep this promise either, but through his strength, treatment was much better and he eventually got all of them out.  And he didn't have to send our troops in either.  I was waiting for him to send in the regiment to get all the hostages.


Notice how you didn't answer my question of how you would end the war.  Do you have no idea how.  I'll take your ignoring of the question as a yes.

rpoL98

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1850 on: May 29, 2025, 03:54:48 PM »
Fuck China,  Fuck Russia.  I will root for Ukraine and Taiwan.   No one is going nuke anyone and it's not worth sacrificing freedom just because people are scared of nukes.   We must support democracy throughout the world.
it seems lately, the EU flavor of "democracy" is not healthy.  look at Romania, where they did an election do-over after they didn't like the results, and then they censored the media to ensure EU-favored candidate wins.

and now Ireland, where being patriotic is hate speech, go to jail, over-run with refugees.  Keir Starmer is an anti-british blooming idiot.  You can even go on Google Earth Street View, and see all the kebab restaurants, and halal markets, even in Scotland, imagine that.

the French elections with all kinds of shenanigans to counter Marine Le Pen's party, similarly in Germany to shut down the party wanting illegal immigration shut-down, all kinds of political monkey business.  And of course the UK, which might as well be labeled as New Pakistan, New Asia, or something like that.  The EU is wrecking Europe.

in the holy name of democracy, they shut down democracy.  yup, it's a shit sandwich.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2025, 04:54:52 PM by rpoL98 »

zippz

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1851 on: May 29, 2025, 04:34:36 PM »
I'm very disappointed by Trump's performance after having high hopes he'd end it soon.  It feels like Putin is winning over Trump.  Like Putin is toying with Trump.
Trump's just making vague empty threats with no meaning so far.

I hope he's just building the rage meter and will unleash the fury.

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1852 on: May 30, 2025, 07:34:22 AM »
I'm very disappointed by Trump's performance after having high hopes he'd end it soon.  It feels like Putin is winning over Trump.  Like Putin is toying with Trump.
Trump's just making vague empty threats with no meaning so far.

I hope he's just building the rage meter and will unleash the fury.

I hope his threats remain "empty".  I don't' want to see boots on the ground in a war that has nothing to do with us.

hvybarrels

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1853 on: May 30, 2025, 08:04:45 AM »
Russia had already won before this thing even started. There was no scenario where Ukraine would come out victorious and break up the bear so that our NGOs could swarm in and steal everything that wasn’t tied down. They could have destroyed Ukraine several times over but the cost to rebuild would have been massive, so they stick to what they know best and just keep grinding until the opposition gives up.

They have no reason to cease hostilities without a juicy deal, and if the Democrats seize power then whatever arrangement they made with trump will be tossed so there’s zero faith on their part.

The problem for trump is that pulling out would signal the end of the us empire, and he is under pressure to make a good deal or stall for the enough time to make our economy self sufficient before the rest of the world dumps the dollar and we can no longer afford to import anything.
The F in Communism stands for Food

Brystont1

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1854 on: May 30, 2025, 09:09:21 AM »
I'm very disappointed by Trump's performance after having high hopes he'd end it soon.  It feels like Putin is winning over Trump.  Like Putin is toying with Trump.
Trump's just making vague empty threats with no meaning so far.

I hope he's just building the rage meter and will unleash the fury.

What “fury” are you hoping he will unleash?

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1855 on: May 30, 2025, 10:13:06 AM »
Russia had already won before this thing even started. There was no scenario where Ukraine would come out victorious and break up the bear so that our NGOs could swarm in and steal everything that wasn’t tied down. They could have destroyed Ukraine several times over but the cost to rebuild would have been massive, so they stick to what they know best and just keep grinding until the opposition gives up.

They have no reason to cease hostilities without a juicy deal, and if the Democrats seize power then whatever arrangement they made with trump will be tossed so there’s zero faith on their part.

The problem for trump is that pulling out would signal the end of the us empire, and he is under pressure to make a good deal or stall for the enough time to make our economy self sufficient before the rest of the world dumps the dollar and we can no longer afford to import anything.

1 thing that is preventing Russia from leveling Ukraine is that they look at the Ukrainian people as their own.  So you don't want to harm them as much as they're your own people too.  Plus add in the bad PR and possible war crimes  they would get from the media if they did that to the entire country.  The WW2 days of carpet bombing have ended long ago.

You're right that Russian needs a juicy deal cause if they just "broke even", then the entire war was for nothing.  I hope Zelin knows this, but I do see his side as well about giving an inch now and later they will want a mile.  It's very hard deal to make.

Kuleana

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1856 on: May 30, 2025, 12:16:06 PM »
Russia had already won before this thing even started. There was no scenario where Ukraine would come out victorious and break up the bear so that our NGOs could swarm in and steal everything that wasn’t tied down. They could have destroyed Ukraine several times over but the cost to rebuild would have been massive, so they stick to what they know best and just keep grinding until the opposition gives up.
Be careful what you say because there is someone who sometimes chimes in and demands you show proof that Russia had already won the US empire's proxy war against Russia before it's SMO as I have similarly stated many times before.   :shaka:



They have no reason to cease hostilities without a juicy deal, and if the Democrats seize power then whatever arrangement they made with trump will be tossed so there’s zero faith on their part.
Whether the Democrats take power after Trump's term or later do not matter.  The US empire's plan was always to smash Russia, China, Iran, and any other nation that wants to break out of its global geopolitical control.  Hence, Russia will continue hostilities in Ukraine geographically until it is strategically satisfied whether deal or no deal from Trump.



The problem for trump is that pulling out would signal the end of the us empire, and he is under pressure to make a good deal or stall for the enough time to make our economy self sufficient before the rest of the world dumps the dollar and we can no longer afford to import anything.
At long last, someone who understands the US empire is over and the only thing it can do is cut its loses and be part of the emerging multipolar World.

Unfortunately, I fear the oligarchs of the US empire will not accept the coming global reality and fade into the background but think they can restore their dominance by means of proxy or direct war among military peers with the hopes all economies except the US empire's is somehow still left standing so it can dictate to the World as it did in the aftermath of WWII.

changemyoil66

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1857 on: May 30, 2025, 12:20:14 PM »


Unfortunately, I fear the oligarchs of the US empire will not accept the coming global reality and fade into the background but think they can restore their dominance by means of proxy or direct war among military peers with the hopes all economies except the US empire's is somehow still left standing so it can dictate to the World as it did in the aftermath of WWII.

I thought they would just give up since it's only 4 years.  But if they do, then they show the next guy who they cannot corrupt what can be done.  Everything being done to Trump is by design to show the next guy like him what will happen to them.  Give up a very cushy lifestyle just to go through everything that Trump has.  He's the most vetted politician and the most clean one as nothing was found after all these witch hunts.

I can guarantee anyone else like him is saying "pass".

QUIETShooter

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1858 on: May 31, 2025, 10:08:43 AM »
Back when Putin was massing his forces at the borders of Ukraine and invasion seems eminent, I always held the view that this was the reason.  (Well, one of the main ones anyway.):

I blame all the asshats of the obama and biden (actually still obama) administrations for this.  It's gonna be a hard fix if it can be done at all.

Why do you think Putin always has that smirk on his face.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-nato-alliance-dream-is-dead/ar-AA1FPJXR?cmp_prftch=2&ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=eeb61db564714a109c14468f70b933bc&ei=14
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

QUIETShooter

Re: Ukraine vs. Russia
« Reply #1859 on: May 31, 2025, 11:59:34 AM »
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.