Are you guys talking about storing your gun at a range that allows customers to rent it out for use at that range?

focus

Are you guys talking about storing your gun at a range that allows customers to rent it out for use at that range?

I'm still trying to find out what we're talking about.

Seems like he skipped over my replies about permits in more than one state.

Also skipped over my comments about being a resident of one state and buying guns  in another state -- even if you own property outside your state of legal residence or register to vote outside your home state.

He also skipped over my questions about frequency of trips, and the size and number of guns he wants to store and use on his vacations.

At this point, the topic seems to be a request for opinions not of any actual situation, but of a hypothetical he thought up.

Without defining some of the constraints I mentioned, there's no way to form a viable opinion/plan.

I'm still trying to find out what we're talking about.
Seems like he skipped over my replies about permits in more than one state.
Also skipped over my comments about being a resident of one state and buying guns  in another state -- even if you own property outside your state of legal residence or register to vote outside your home state.

We'll start off with these two questions first. Say I buy a house north of Vegas. I find a LGS in Vegas or Henderson, and attempt to buy a pistol. However, my legal residence is still HI. Isn't the background check still in NV? Am I constrained to a 10 round mag or a higher limit which NV allows? The ATF form which we fill out seems to ask for the state where we legally reside. This is government trick which may be used to get a search warrant for the HI residence, at a future time.
Legal residence is a status with ramifications that are tax related and gun related. HI allows tax breaks to residents that are not available to non-residents. Also, this has nothing to do with the number of days you're present in each state, so I don't know why you bring up the 50-50 question. Your 1040 return and voting card have a higher precedence than days in state.

We'll start off with these two questions first. Say I buy a house north of Vegas. I find a LGS in Vegas or Henderson, and attempt to buy a pistol. However, my legal residence is still HI. Isn't the background check still in NV? Am I constrained to a 10 round mag or a higher limit which NV allows? The ATF form which we fill out seems to ask for the state where we legally reside. This is government trick which may be used to get a search warrant for the HI residence, at a future time.
Legal residence is a status with ramifications that are tax related and gun related. HI allows tax breaks to residents that are not available to non-residents. Also, this has nothing to do with the number of days you're present in each state, so I don't know why you bring up the 50-50 question. Your 1040 return and voting card have a higher precedence than days in state.

Federal vs. State law regarding the mag example u brought up.


U are over complicating it. And this is coming from me. There are ways of circumventing federal law, but this would be illegal to do (ie lying).

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We'll start off with these two questions first. Say I buy a house north of Vegas. I find a LGS in Vegas or Henderson, and attempt to buy a pistol. However, my legal residence is still HI. Isn't the background check still in NV? Am I constrained to a 10 round mag or a higher limit which NV allows? The ATF form which we fill out seems to ask for the state where we legally reside. This is government trick which may be used to get a search warrant for the HI residence, at a future time.
Legal residence is a status with ramifications that are tax related and gun related. HI allows tax breaks to residents that are not available to non-residents. Also, this has nothing to do with the number of days you're present in each state, so I don't know why you bring up the 50-50 question. Your 1040 return and voting card have a higher precedence than days in state.

You really should study the federal and state (HI) laws more.  You tend to ask lots of questions, and most of the answers are there -- at least the issues are addressed if not really solved.

Federal law will not let you purchase a handgun in another state (intrastate purchase) without shipping the gun to an FFL IN YoUR HOME STATE.

Once the gun arrives in Hawaii, the Hawaii FFL (not the NV one) will be responsible to make sure you comply with HI laws.  That means you need to present a valid Permit to Acquire.  That means you have to undergo the HI background check and 14 day wait.

Long gun rules vary, but in most cases where an FFL is the seller, they must be satisfied you are not breaking the laws of your home state.  So, if you live where AR-15s are banned, he can't sell you one.  If you're required to present a valid long gun permit to acquire in HI, you have to present it to the NV dealer.  All depends on the state's laws.  In general, federal law is the governing rule, and state laws can either follow that or make more strict laws for themselves.

You really went off the deep end with the legal residence rabbit hole, huh? 

The only purpose of declaring your legal state of residence for gun purchases is for interstate commerce and NFA compliance.  If you have a valid FFL dealer license, you can transfer weapons between states.  If you have Collector's C&R FFL-03, you can transfer qualified weapons across state lines without having to go through someone with a dealer FFL.

The whole intent is so DocMeercy can't live as a New York State resident, then hop in his truck, drive to Virginia, and buy a gun out-of-state in order to bypass New York's gun laws.

Unless the seller from out-of-state is willing to risk his FFL license (if he is a dealer) and/or prison time for selling a gun to someone who's not a resident of their state without shipping it to an FFL in your state, the system pretty much works.  What it doesn't do is stop criminals from buying guns in one state and selling them illegally in another state for a huge profit.  Both the buyer and the seller are risking some hefty penalties if they get caught.  And, if you aren't already a felon, doing these crimes will make you one, meaning you won't be able to buy or possess a firearm legally from that point on.

"Legal residence" is defined based on whichever body of law you are referring to.  The IRS definition is NOT the one the ATF uses.  If you're military, and your legal residence is NC, but you're stationed in OK, guess which state's laws you must comply with when buying a firearm?

Hint:  It's not the one to which you owe state taxes.

Let's not bring in superfluous information, like being in the military or living in New York State (nice place, but I wouldn't want to return). Keep the discussion within the scope of HI and NV. If a US citizen uses NV as their primary residence, they can bring in a handgun conforming to local HI state laws into Oahu, and register it within 5 days at HPD. As a US citizen, it would appear that I would be able to use the weapon for self-defense within the laws of HI. Within TBD days, the person flies back to NV with the weapon, and all should be good. There appears to be some boilerplate in HRS §134-3  about notifying HPD, within 5 days, about a weapon that is permanently removed from the state.

Back in NV, the owner can go back to using larger mags. You are free to correct any parts in this plan, unless you feel that a lawyer should be consulted about the steps in the process.

Let's not bring in superfluous information, like being in the military or living in New York State (nice place, but I wouldn't want to return). Keep the discussion within the scope of HI and NV. If a US citizen uses NV as their primary residence, they can bring in a handgun conforming to local HI state laws into Oahu, and register it within 5 days at HPD. As a US citizen, it would appear that I would be able to use the weapon for self-defense within the laws of HI. Within TBD days, the person flies back to NV with the weapon, and all should be good. There appears to be some boilerplate in HRS §134-3  about notifying HPD, within 5 days, about a weapon that is permanently removed from the state.

Back in NV, the owner can go back to using larger mags. You are free to correct any parts in this plan, unless you feel that a lawyer should be consulted about the steps in the process.

Now that you've finally constrained the scenario to situations that can be better described, I think the answer will be much more clear to you.

You have everything working okay up to the point of "Within TBD days, the person flies back to NV with the weapon, and all should be good."  Is the weapon staying there, or returning to Hawaii with you?  Are you planning to carry the weapon out in public for protection?  Or is this just going to be transported in a case until you get to whatever location where you intend to shoot?

As long as the gun is legal to possess in NV, you can bring any gun with you there no matter where you purchased it.  If you buy a gun in HI, you can travel with it to NV -- all good.  If you have a non-resident NV permit to carry or a permit from another state that NV honors (reciprocity agreement), you can even conceal or open carry that gun while in NV if the law allows based on the permit and type of firearm.

As for mags, that's a HI jurisdictional law.  They can't touch you outside of the state for buying or having "illegal" mags.  No different than taking advantage of Constitutional or Permitless Carry in a state that allows it for everyone (not just residents) even though your state of residence prohibits any form of firearm carry.

The interstate acquisition process is a federal one, so it covers both NV and HI to make sure you comply with the laws of HI.  Mag capacity laws are state level only.  Jurisdiction differences apply.

As for mags, that's a HI jurisdictional law.  They can't touch you outside of the state for buying or having "illegal" mags.  No different than taking advantage of Constitutional or Permitless Carry in a state that allows it for everyone (not just residents) even though your state of residence prohibits any form of firearm carry.

Thank you for your quick reply. I don't see any way to get around (a NV resident and out-of-state visitor) bringing in a handgun with a 15-rd mag and registering it at HPD. Who has gone through this process, or do they just ignore registration?

Thank you for your quick reply. I don't see any way to get around (a NV resident and out-of-state visitor) bringing in a handgun with a 15-rd mag and registering it at HPD. Who has gone through this process, or do they just ignore registration?

You don't register the mags.  In fact, when we were still required to present firearms during registration for HPD inspection, it was a common recommendation to leave your mags at home just to avoid any questions should any be "questionable."

If you are talking about the purchase process, not registration, that's another subject. 

Remember how you must have the gun sent to a HI FFL?  One thing they check is compliance of the firearm to state restrictions.  If the seller includes illegal mags with the gun, your FFL can't deliver them to you unless you are LE or military who can have them, or if you have the FFL perform the "mag block" to 10 rds max capacity.

It's best to have the seller include factory 10rd mags.  Next option is just have the seller keep them -- maybe for a little "consideration?"

If you acquire 15rd mags in NV separate from the pistol purchase, make sure to disassemble them before bringing them home.  A "magazine parts kit" is legal, since a disassembled mag holds zero rounds.  Then you can take your kits to NV to use, and bring them back as disassembled parts.  Or in your case, just leave them in your NV home.   

I'm not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice.  This is my own interpretation of HI law as written. 

(c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition
magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is
prohibited.  This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds
of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of
being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.

Parts is parts.  Mags is mags.

Even if I'm wrong, it's a misdemeanor to possess a prohibited magazine.  It's a felony to insert it into a pistol, either loaded with ammo or not.  Can't easily insert a bunch of disassembled parts where a mag belongs. 

i love how you want to eliminate superfluous information when you want to know something, yet you freely introduce superfluous information when you are speculating about your interpretation...

Let's not bring in superfluous information, like being in the military or living in New York State (nice place, but I wouldn't want to return). Keep the discussion within the scope of HI and NV. If a US citizen uses NV as their primary residence, they can bring in a handgun conforming to local HI state laws into Oahu, and register it within 5 days at HPD. As a US citizen, it would appear that I would be able to use the weapon for self-defense within the laws of HI. Within TBD days, the person flies back to NV with the weapon, and all should be good. There appears to be some boilerplate in HRS §134-3  about notifying HPD, within 5 days, about a weapon that is permanently removed from the state.

Back in NV, the owner can go back to using larger mags. You are free to correct any parts in this plan, unless you feel that a lawyer should be consulted about the steps in the process.

Sadly, the gun ranges in Hawaii are pathetic, and both ammo and weapons are hard to find. For those who travel regularly to NV or AZ, would it make sense to buy a second home in these states to ease the process in vacationing and pursuing your hobbies? First, I would probably buy an electric car to eliminate the worry of stale gasoline. I would get a heavy, strong safe to store the weapons and ammo. My scopes would be set up just right, and would not have to deal with issues of transporting any sensitive gear on airlines. A home would provide a room for doing weapon teardown and maintenance, as well as the comfort of a good bed and shower that only you or your family would use (no strangers). You also have your own kitchen to use for cooking. No fast food or overpriced hotel food. What am I overlooking (e.g., security)?

The reason the market for firearms training and associated equipment is "pathetic" is because of our laws and political environment. Hawaii political leaders despise gun owners and people who want to defend themselves. They try to make it harder for anyone to own a firearm or any other means to defend themselves. You are a fence straddler, hence you are looking at keeping residence here but owning another home in another state because Hawaii is not friendly to gun owners.
I think you should just move entirely to the mainland. You have no desire to help the Hawaii 2a community.

SNIP

I think you should just move entirely to the mainland. You have no desire to help the Hawaii 2a community.

While I wouldn't go that far, I do think if he (and some others here) get out and get more active with the 2a community, that they wouldn't have as much energies devoted to mental gymnastics. . . preferably time spend shooting, training, enjoying firearms. 

I think you should just move entirely to the mainland. You have no desire to help the Hawaii 2a community.

Indeed, with his/her/it's love of 100% registration and FEELINGS about "reasonable" restrictions, California would be a good fit.

i love how you want to eliminate superfluous information when you want to know something, yet you freely introduce superfluous information when you are speculating about your interpretation...

The matter of being a resident or non-resident of a state makes a big difference, and is not a superfluous issue.

https://htj.tax/2019/11/us-state-tax-residency-vs-domicile/

There are four states in the US which make it hard to break residency (in the sense of filing your state tax return as a resident or non-resident). These states are CA, NM, SC, and VA. Given that attorneys for the state of HI have been known for overzealous prosecution, I have decided to keep HI as my domicile state. All members who wish that I would "go back to where I came from" are free to declare their wishes. Those who hate the state should not transfer their hate to individual citizens who disagree with them.

As a resident who is domiciled in HI, I will continue to purchase/obtain all my weapons in this state, or through FFL's in the state. The HRS statutes spell out that relocating a weapon temporarily out of state does not require notifying HPD.  [Disclaimer] Anyone who uses the ideas suggested by me or Flapp is advised to contact an attorney to evaluate the legality of his/her actions.

As for supporting 2A rights in HI, I've done enough already. I own more weapons than most people, patronize local businesses and stand for CCW permits with sufficient training. Self-defense is not an imaginary issue with me. NYPD has records that I was attacked by a black youth with a weapon while I was young and unarmed. I'll join you on ballot initiatives, which is the only way people can influence government to pass important laws.

https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/09/citizen-initiative-a-tool-hawaii-could-really-use/

The matter of being a resident or non-resident of a state makes a big difference, and is not a superfluous issue.

https://htj.tax/2019/11/us-state-tax-residency-vs-domicile/

There are four states in the US which make it hard to break residency (in the sense of filing your state tax return as a resident or non-resident). These states are CA, NM, SC, and VA. Given that attorneys for the state of HI have been known for overzealous prosecution, I have decided to keep HI as my domicile state. All members who wish that I would "go back to where I came from" are free to declare their wishes. Those who hate the state should not transfer their hate to individual citizens who disagree with them.

As a resident who is domiciled in HI, I will continue to purchase/obtain all my weapons in this state, or through FFL's in the state. The HRS statutes spell out that relocating a weapon temporarily out of state does not require notifying HPD.  [Disclaimer] Anyone who uses the ideas suggested by me or Flapp is advised to contact an attorney to evaluate the legality of his/her actions.

As for supporting 2A rights in HI, I've done enough already. I own more weapons than most people, patronize local businesses and stand for CCW permits with sufficient training. Self-defense is not an imaginary issue with me. NYPD has records that I was attacked by a black youth with a weapon while I was young and unarmed. I'll join you on ballot initiatives, which is the only way people can influence government to pass important laws.

https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/09/citizen-initiative-a-tool-hawaii-could-really-use/

How would you vote on an initiative to eliminate  firearms registration?

. All members who wish that I would "go back to where I came from" are free to declare their wishes.
As a resident who is domiciled in HI, I will continue to purchase/obtain all my weapons in this state, or through FFL's in the state. The HRS statutes spell out that relocating a weapon temporarily out of state does not require notifying HPD.  [Disclaimer] Anyone who uses the ideas suggested by me or Flapp is advised to contact an attorney to evaluate the legality of his/her actions.

As for supporting 2A rights in HI, I've done enough already. I own more weapons than most people, patronize local businesses and stand for CCW permits with sufficient training. Self-defense is not an imaginary issue with me. NYPD has records that I was attacked by a black youth with a weapon while I was young and unarmed. I'll join you on ballot initiatives, which is the only way people can influence government to pass important laws.

https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/09/citizen-initiative-a-tool-hawaii-could-really-use/

No one here stated to "go back where you came from" . Instead it was suggested that you move to the mainland.

TBH, if you think doing what you're doing is enough to support 2a rights, you are wrong. Besides buying guns and stuff and standing for ccw, it takes writing testimonies when bills come up. Even MDA people buy guns. So does that mean they support 2a rights?  We need every person so our numbers are bigger.  If you don't do that, then you cannot grumble.  For ballots, it depends who you vote for. Like if you voted for Ige, then you are not helping the 2a community. But it is understandable that 2a is just 1 part of who 1 votes for.  But 1 cannot claim helping via ballots if they vote for anti 2a lawmakers.  For me, I didn't vote for anyone in office either DC level or state level since 2016 (When I became a gun owner).  So I can grumble all I want.

Even when i went to the range to get written testimonies, I was amazed at the ainokea attitude. I wasn't around when many laws were passed, but I can imagine it was pre social media.  So back then it was understandable that people didn't know a registration bill was up or mag limit bill (1990s).  And now with HIFICO, there really is no excuse. We defeated the rifle mag ban last year. 1500 oppose testimonies. Imagine if most of those people had the ainokea attitude.  Did you write testimony for the mag ban bill last year?

When I first got involved in 2016, this was b4 HIFICO and there were only about 5 of us in person for the hearings and about 15 testimonies or so. So this shows how they're quarterbacking the grass roots effort.

The problems and complications of owning firearms in multiple states comes up in forums like Quora many times.

https://www.quora.com/Can-you-have-more-than-one-gun-permit-for-two-different-states#:~:text=Yes.,recognize%20only%20their%20own%20licenses.

I do not know if there are any clear answers. Like many of you, I reside in HI, have a hunting license, and have permits for numerous handguns, and have registered all weapons in the state. However we don't have medium to long distance rifle ranges, and the appropriate training courses. These are some ideas I have considered for owning a residence in another state. Have your wife or "legal" partner become a resident of the second state. That means she is registered to vote in that state. This solves the problem of having valid permits outside HI. Storage is a worry both in-state or out-of-state, which suggest that a business with an FFL could open with long-term-storage in mind. Such a business would have walk-in vaults with 24-hr surveillance. The business model would price storage at a reasonable price, say, $100/month for five rifles. I am not a fan of carrying two rifle cases through an airport with one or two suitcases.  Also do not like renting a rifle or pistol that can misfire, and possibly injure the user.

We do have medium and long ranges. 600 yards up to 1000. Every year there is free training. Hardly anyone uses these resources.

No one here stated to "go back where you came from" . Instead it was suggested that you move to the mainland.

TBH, if you think doing what you're doing is enough to support 2a rights, you are wrong. Besides buying guns and stuff and standing for ccw, it takes writing testimonies when bills come up. Even MDA people buy guns. So does that mean they support 2a rights?  We need every person so our numbers are bigger.  If you don't do that, then you cannot grumble.  For ballots, it depends who you vote for. Like if you voted for Ige, then you are not helping the 2a community. But it is understandable that 2a is just 1 part of who 1 votes for.  But 1 cannot claim helping via ballots if they vote for anti 2a lawmakers.  For me, I didn't vote for anyone in office either DC level or state level since 2016 (When I became a gun owner).  So I can grumble all I want.

Even when i went to the range to get written testimonies, I was amazed at the ainokea attitude. I wasn't around when many laws were passed, but I can imagine it was pre social media.  So back then it was understandable that people didn't know a registration bill was up or mag limit bill (1990s).  And now with HIFICO, there really is no excuse. We defeated the rifle mag ban last year. 1500 oppose testimonies. Imagine if most of those people had the ainokea attitude.  Did you write testimony for the mag ban bill last year?

When I first got involved in 2016, this was b4 HIFICO and there were only about 5 of us in person for the hearings and about 15 testimonies or so. So this shows how they're quarterbacking the grass roots effort.

Look at you all "grown up"