Have seen a couple of LGS advertising the BYRNA SD pepperball gun for sale here in Hawaii. Now I'm just confused as it is not considered a firearm but uses CO2 as it's propellant and goes against HRS 134. What rules apply to this? Is it considered "firearm" under the HRS or is it something else and can it be carried, just like TASERs now? If they are legal to carry, why couldn't we just carry the T4E pistols with pepperballs in them?

CMO has similar threads here
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=45272.0
and here
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=45373.msg419143;topicseen#msg419143

Following, wondering the same too

My threads put enough doubt that 1 shoudlnt carry it

What will happen is someone needs to be charged while carrying 1 and be the test subject for the rest of us to find out if legal or not.

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Interesting Discussion!

Both "Stun Guns" and "pepperball" guns are "less then lethal".

I wondered about both since the guys downtown was trying to "modify" the law that passed!

I was for purchasing a "stun gun".  Since the law didn't pass, i did purchase one.(effective range 15ft)

Now regarding the "pepperball" gun. (effective range 62 ft)  I too wondered about this.  Seems intesting that there is no law "per se".

I think it's all about how you (and Me) interpret the law.

The biggest issue if you were to "open" carry, someone will call 911.  I looked into the Bryna device.  It comes with Pepper and non pepper balls.

For me, i have purchased BOTH devices.  I felt that if anytime the law changed (to be against), us "owners" would be "grandfathered".

I only ALWAYS carry my TASER with my wallet card in case HPD ever gets involved.  But if someone was to Break-in to my house, i would use the pepperball gun and not pull my REAL gun...

HPD can't charge me for using my less then lethal device!

This will be an interesting topic to follow!

Good Luck on what you decide!

Aloha!
 

SNIP



I only ALWAYS carry my TASER with my wallet card in case HPD ever gets involved.  But if someone was to Break-in to my house, i would use the pepperball gun and not pull my REAL gun...

HPD can't charge me for using my less then lethal device!

This will be an interesting topic to follow!

Good Luck on what you decide!

Aloha!
 

Wallet card?

The company that sold me my TASER provided a card that

1) identified Seller Dealer

2)  has my name on it:

2) identifies the HPD Validation Code (aka background check done with HPD Code)

3) shows that an  "informational Briefing" was held

Im not sure what "others" do

Aloha!

 

The company that sold me my TASER provided a card that

1) identified Seller Dealer

2)  has my name on it:

2) identifies the HPD Validation Code (aka background check done with HPD Code)

3) shows that an  "informational Briefing" was held

Im not sure what "others" do

Aloha!

 

Yeah if bringing one back from the mainland, you don't need any of that. Was wondering if it was just one of the "shady" LGS trying to get more money out of you/us.

The company that sold me my TASER provided a card that

1) identified Seller Dealer

2)  has my name on it:

2) identifies the HPD Validation Code (aka background check done with HPD Code)

3) shows that an  "informational Briefing" was held

Im not sure what "others" do

Aloha!

 

None of that is legally required to carry on a card. Its like carrying ur gun registration paper to the range.

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Interesting Discussion!

Both "Stun Guns" and "pepperball" guns are "less then lethal".

I wondered about both since the guys downtown was trying to "modify" the law that passed!

I was for purchasing a "stun gun".  Since the law didn't pass, i did purchase one.(effective range 15ft)

Now regarding the "pepperball" gun. (effective range 62 ft)  I too wondered about this.  Seems intesting that there is no law "per se".

I think it's all about how you (and Me) interpret the law.

The biggest issue if you were to "open" carry, someone will call 911.  I looked into the Bryna device.  It comes with Pepper and non pepper balls.

For me, i have purchased BOTH devices.  I felt that if anytime the law changed (to be against), us "owners" would be "grandfathered".

I only ALWAYS carry my TASER with my wallet card in case HPD ever gets involved.  But if someone was to Break-in to my house, i would use the pepperball gun and not pull my REAL gun...

HPD can't charge me for using my less then lethal device!

This will be an interesting topic to follow!

Good Luck on what you decide!

Aloha!
 

Hrs 134-51 dangerous or deadly weapons is where Byrna may fall under.

Tasers and pepper spray have their own HRS, so they dont fall under the above. Plus the deputy attorney general stated in recorded testimony u can carry tasers.

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Amen

I too suspect someone is waiting for a test case.  It won’t be me


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Amen

I too suspect someone is waiting for a test case.  It won’t be me


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Why not? Come on, take one for the team.  I will even chip in $20 for your legal defense fund.  I know it is not much, but that is all I can afford. Retired and on fixed income.

Why not? Come on, take one for the team.  I will even chip in $20 for your legal defense fund.  I know it is not much, but that is all I can afford. Retired and on fixed income.

Put me down for $20.50

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U guys are so funny but hey at least I won’t waste lead.  The actual idea was to use the ball gun aka 62 ft then go in with taser and shock the person 50 times.  (Oops). 30 seconds each time. By then the cops will show up since I don’t live in Waianae


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My question is on the effectiveness of it. I saw a smaller asian guy get shot by em on instagram and he didnt drop. He just held the impact point and cussed and kinda walked around. Wouldnt that just piss off the agressor and probably escalate the situation? Imagine if was a chronic on ice... I honestly don't see much use for it presonally but to each their own. The only reason i can see carrying it is because our state refuses to allow us to defend ourselves by carrying a real firearm. They rather protect the criminals and f the citizens. But im veering off topic so I'll stop here lol.

My question is on the effectiveness of it. I saw a smaller asian guy get shot by em on instagram and he didnt drop. He just held the impact point and cussed and kinda walked around. Wouldnt that just piss off the agressor and probably escalate the situation? Imagine if was a chronic on ice... I honestly don't see much use for it presonally but to each their own. The only reason i can see carrying it is because our state refuses to allow us to defend ourselves by carrying a real firearm. They rather protect the criminals and f the citizens. But im veering off topic so I'll stop here lol.

Each less lethal unit has it's pros and cons.

The plastic balls rely on pain compliance. And it matters how determined the other is to cause you harm. Same goes for a stun gun.

Pepper balls and OC take time to take effect and the person is still mobile (can swing arms with a knife in hand blindly).  Ive seen YT vids of each and between the 2, spray seems to work better. Assume both deploy correctly.

The above is the attacker isn't afraid of you first pointing the unit at them, and keeps coming.


I would not carry a Byrna, even if it were to be legal. Besides the expensive price,  you need to get hits on the chest with at least 1 of 5 rounds and they need to break.  So a moving target that's in close proximity would be more difficult.  Compared to spray where you can just hold the lever down and spray like crazy. Then add in the size. CCW it would be like CCWing something bigger than a VP9 or G17, but smaller than a Desert Eagle.

A taser causes the muscles to cease, so the person wont be able to move for 30 seconds (Taser Pulse unit).

That is true. I cant justify spending that much on it either. Its just not for me. I live out west and have seen cheonics eat direct taser hits, rip the barbs out and still resist or take off running. As u said it all depends on the attackers determination. And their level of intoxication plays a factor as well. Spray is good but have to pay attention to wind direction for sure or that could very quickly backfire. I remember when i was in high school and there was a huge riot. Cops pepper sprayed the crowd and ended up catching a bunch of their own in the mix as well. Was my first lesson on proper use of pepper spray lol. Back on topic tho....

I am curious of the legality of the byrna as it is co2 charged like a pelet gun.

I am curious of the legality of the byrna as it is co2 charged like a pelet gun.

As mentioned above, it's illegal to carry an air gun. So if they treated CO2 like an airgun, still cannot carry.

Then there's BB/pellet guns that has it's separate ROH law.  Is a plastic ball a BB?  It isn't a pellet, but BB's are normally metal (ball bearing).  So unknown.

Then there's the definition of dangerous or deadly weapon. Sole purpose is to cause bodily injury, etc.... The plastic projectile can break skin and will leave a welt.

So overall as a non lawyer, I say illegal to carry.

Unless these places that are telling people they can carry them got a letter from the AG's office (which I doubt), they're possibly screwing people over. And from what I saw of the people buying, it was a huge range of age and both sexes. So grandma gonna get arrested.

Hmmm

All listed are correct.  Unfortunaly MOST if not all people that cause problems either are "high", Not all there, Drunk, etc etc etc.

would peperball and/or Stun guns work?

Here's my issue:  Leagally we cannot carry outside of our home.  Legally we can't "shoot" an "intruder" in our home per se.

I figued the alternative would be "less then lethal"  RIGHT?

HAHAHAHA

Anyway good luck to all,  We DO NEED the first test case.  Currently the only item i proudly carry at work is my Taser! (Open carry)

When im outside of work shopping or eatting, i conceal carry my taser

I do have my Bryna unit close by but away.

Aloha!

Hmmm


Legally we can't "shoot" an "intruder" in our home per se.

This is why articulation is important. The Mililani guy who killed the guy right outside his open door wasn't charged.

The Kalihi guy who killed the kid jumping the wall was charged.

The military guy who killed the other  military guy who was at the wrong home and shot thru his door was charged and found guilty

I would hope KitNGun or other LGS would chime in on their take as they're selling them. Do they have something from HPD? Anyone know?