Yesterday, it was brought to our attention that HPD is (illegally) charging some people $43.25 just to apply for a concealed carry application. How were they doing this? By making them (illegally) sign up for Rapback.

In 2018, Hawaii was the first (and only) state to require people that wished to obtain or register a firearm in the state to sign away their rights and enroll in the FBI Rapback program. For the privilege of doing so, the state deemed that people should be charged a one-time fee of $43.25.
Rapback is an FBI program that enrolls Hawaii gun owners into a constant background check system, where they become a suspect of all crimes in the US, just for owning a gun in Hawaii.

When and how Rapback enrollment can be done is set in Hawaii law. Relevance to firearms is within HRS1345-2 and 134-3 and says that, "The issuing authority shall perform an inquiry on an applicant by using the International Justice and Public Safety Network, including the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement query, the National Crime Information Center, and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, pursuant to section 846-2.7"

HRS 846-27 says: Except as otherwise provided in this section, criminal history record information shall be used exclusively for the stated purpose for which it was obtained in accordance with section 378-2.5. (43) The county police departments on applicants for permits to acquire firearms pursuant to section 134-2 and on individuals registering their firearms pursuant to section 134-3;"

As you can see, it mentions NOTHING about sections 134-9, which is in regards to Hawaii's concealed carry laws. Furthermore, the fee for a concealed carry permit (when issued) is $10, and this is contained in 134-9: "(d) A fee of $10 shall be charged for each license and shall be deposited in the treasury of the county in which the license is granted."

Section 846-2.7 is explicitly clear, the Rapback enrollment/background checks CANNOT be used for any other purpose than those stated in the law, and section 134-9 is also explicitly clear, the only fee allowed to be charged is the $10 fee.

So this makes it clear that HPD (and possibly other counties) are illegally signing people up for Rapback and stealing their money to do so.

We don't know how many people have fallen victim to these scheme, and likely never will.We did speak to the police department this morning and expect to hear their explanation on Tuesday.

If you have been charged this illegal fee, do reach out to us. It's likely that our lawyers would be interested in hearing about it.

Yesterday, it was brought to our attention that HPD is (illegally) charging some people $43.25 just to apply for a concealed carry application.

We don't know how many people have fallen victim to these scheme, and likely never will. We did speak to the police department this morning and expect to hear their explanation on Tuesday.

If you have been charged this illegal fee, do reach out to us. It's likely that our lawyers would be interested in hearing about it.

I paid with a credit card:      07/18/2022         HONOLULU POLICE DEPT HONOLULU HI   8709   -$44.55     ($1.30 surcharge for CC use?)

I already mentioned to you in a previous posting that my gf was charged for "rapback" even though she only applied for a CCW permit (and she has a registered revolver from years back).

We were taken by surprise (as well as having to fill out the Permit to Acquire form and medical waiver forms when we got to the front counter) and I didn't want to argue with the male officer who was processing our app. He repeatedly asked his female officer counterpart to check my gf's status on "rapback".  Something must have flagged on his computer since he didn't question me but questioned my gf.  Didn't bring any cash so I charged it.

I'm cheap so I'm not pleased having already forked over $33 dollars at Walgreens for 2 sets of passport photos (me & gf) and now this $44 "rapback" fee for my gf.  Don't they already have our photos at HPD? I recall a couple months ago having taken a picture in the Permit office side, looking up at the camera and getting my picture taken (permit for gun purchase).  My gf also had her picture taken this past Monday at HPD while applying for our CCW.  I wouldn't be surprised if our issued CCW id card wont even have our photo on it.  I have seen a few CCW id cards from the mainland with no photo.

London808, please count me in.

The AZ CWP does not have a photo on it.

Would be nice to get all the Rapback fees refunded plus interest since IIRC that Rapback was never processed?

Pictures??

Do not recall HPD doing that 14 years ago, and the BI PD sure did not.

All pre-ratshit of course.

Posted this on another thread, but my wife and I both did Rap Back years ago together, and both out in for CCW last week. I transferred a pistol to her after Rap Back through HPD, the same one she put her CCW in for. When she applied, HPD said they didn't have her on file for paying Rap Back and said she'd have to find the receipt. The cop gave his email and told her she could just take a pic and send that. Well, she actually found it and did just that, which he claimed would be accepted and that the paperwork would proceed. We didn't know it wasn't required when we applied for the CCW so we didn't contest it, we were just surprised they missed hers when we both did it the same time.

We can Officially confirm…..

As of this morning Honolulu Police Department is no longer charging the rap back fee or requiring enrollment when applying for a concealed carry license.

Everyone that was previously charged the illegal fee will be getting a phone call or letter letting them know that they have been issued a refund.

If you paid by card you will get an automatic refund. If you paid by cash you will be required to go in person to collect your money.

HIFICO for the win!! I hope everyone here is a member.

We can Officially confirm…..

As of this morning Honolulu Police Department is no longer charging the rap back fee or requiring enrollment when applying for a concealed carry license.

Everyone that was previously charged the illegal fee will be getting a phone call or letter letting them know that they have been issued a refund.

If you paid by card you will get an automatic refund. If you paid by cash you will be required to go in person to collect your money.

Criminals hate getting caught. Even more so when they have to give back what they stole.

My mind is blown!

Can someone pinch me?

Thank you London 808!

Hopefully there is no confusion for my electronic refund since I paid with my credit card for my gf's rapback

Question:  Will those of us who paid the "one time" fingerprinting fee before Rap Back qualify for a full payment of the second fee taken from us after Rap Back?

If Rap Back was the justification for requiring a second "one time" fee, and Rap Back is no longer a valid, then anyone who paid the original fee should be getting a 100% refund of the second fee.  Correct?

 

focus
he is not saying that rapback is no longer valid (that's another fight)
he is saying that rapback cannot be used for ccw because it is not written in the law authorizing it's use

Question:  Will those of us who paid the "one time" fingerprinting fee before Rap Back qualify for a full payment of the second fee taken from us after Rap Back?

If Rap Back was the justification for requiring a second "one time" fee, and Rap Back is no longer a valid, then anyone who paid the original fee should be getting a 100% refund of the second fee.  Correct?

 

focus
he is not saying that rapback is no longer valid (that's another fight)
he is saying that rapback cannot be used for ccw because it is not written in the law authorizing it's use

I just asked a simple question. 

You didn't answer it.

#NoFocus

your reasoning for the question was wrong
therefore it was an invalid question...

I just asked a simple question. 

You didn't answer it.

#NoFocus

Question:  Will those of us who paid the "one time" fingerprinting fee before Rap Back qualify for a full payment of the second fee taken from us after Rap Back?

If Rap Back was the justification for requiring a second "one time" fee, and Rap Back is no longer a valid, then anyone who paid the original fee should be getting a 100% refund of the second fee.  Correct?

 

I remember when rapback was first implemented by Gov Ige (Late 2016?) and being upset about the additional $44 dollars and refingerprinting after already having paid the original one time fingerprinting fee years prior (had to bring exact amount in cash and coins). I was pissed and decided not to buy anymore firearms but my boycott lasted maybe 2 years before i gave in. lol

I think they can still legally require the rapback fee for new firearm permits and registrations so we are out of luck on refunds regarding Flapp Jacksons question. 

Unless London808 has anything to say about it.

your reasoning for the question was wrong
therefore it was an invalid question...

You still didn't answer the question I asked.

I remember when rapback was first implemented by Gov Ige (Late 2016?) and being upset about the additional $44 dollars and refingerprinting after already having paid the original one time fingerprinting fee years prior (had to bring exact amount in cash and coins). I was pissed and decided not to buy anymore firearms but my boycott lasted maybe 2 years before i gave in. lol

I think they can still legally require the rapback fee for new firearm permits and registrations so we are out of luck on refunds regarding Flapp Jacksons question. 

Unless London808 has anything to say about it.

Yes, I understood the context of the OP being about CCL. 

But HIFICO has been asking the FBI via FOIA for information about whether/how many gun owners HPD has entered into RAPBACK since the whole Hawaii RAPBACK thing began.  Their website says they won that fight and received the information requested.

Since it's directly related to the issue -- that being how the state may be ripping us off for both CCL and permit RAPBACK fees -- I thought the question was appropriate.

You still didn't answer the question I asked.

why should i answer an invalid question?

why should i answer an invalid question?

Invalid ... in your opinion.

Your argumentative question is completely off topic.

Yes, I understood the context of the OP being about CCL. 

But HIFICO has been asking the FBI via FOIA for information about whether/how many gun owners HPD has entered into RAPBACK since the whole Hawaii RAPBACK thing began.  Their website says they won that fight and received the information requested.

Since it's directly related to the issue -- that being how the state may be ripping us off for both CCL and permit RAPBACK fees -- I thought the question was appropriate.

Flapp Jackson, you bring up a good point.

I remember reading about HIFICO winning the FOIA case.

Did HIFICO report back how many or percentage of people who paid and were entered into rapback?

If none were, we should indeed be entitled to refunds.

Pardon my ignorance if this info was already provided.