Would u be ok if it takes 2 more years? Or what if the lawsuit gets dropped for what ever reason?

The point is that if logan was ethical, he would have signed them within days upon Bruen ruling. Then again when the AG issued their statement.

Imagine if HIFICO (andrew specifically) wasnt pushing the issue.

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Im not ok with any of it.

I’m thinking further ahead. I’m looking at the bigger picture of whether or not our judicial system is completely broken. I never expected chief Logan to be ethical. If you did that’s your fault (not you personally I’m talking generally)  and you should’ve known that the state would pull every last trick in the book to deny us our 2A rights. I’m not upset yet because our government is supposedly comprised of checks and balances. I  wait to and see if the judicial system corrects itself

Im not ok with any of it.

I’m thinking further ahead. I’m looking at the bigger picture of whether or not our judicial system is completely broken. I never expected chief Logan to be ethical. If you did that’s your fault (not you personally I’m talking generally)  and you should’ve known that the state would pull every last trick in the book to deny us our 2A rights. I’m not upset yet because our government is supposedly comprised of checks and balances. I  wait to and see if the judicial system corrects itself

I'm pissed because the law has for years specified what's required for a CC License, and the ONE AND ONLY COMPONENT -- the "good cause" part -- was shot down by SCOTUS.

The fact that the state is now scrambling to redefine what an applicant must do for a license is evidence they never intended to issue a single license.  All these changes in policy and procedure are illegal, since the law is what dictates the process, not HPD and not the AG.

We're watching in real time a tacit admission of their "Never Issue" policy.  That's 100% illegal.  Someone should be held accountable, from the police chief all the way to the mayor and governor.

Yeah, I'm a little pissed.  They got caught breaking the law, but it's unlikely they will ever be held accountable.

Im not ok with any of it.

I’m thinking further ahead. I’m looking at the bigger picture of whether or not our judicial system is completely broken. I never expected chief Logan to be ethical. If you did that’s your fault (not you personally I’m talking generally)  and you should’ve known that the state would pull every last trick in the book to deny us our 2A rights. I’m not upset yet because our government is supposedly comprised of checks and balances. I  wait to and see if the judicial system corrects itself

Just out of curiosity, what number of years constitutes "further ahead", i.e. how long are you willing to demurely "wait to and [sic] see if the judicial system corrects itself"?

Young v. [Hawaii] has been in the "judicial system" for over 10 years, and is now back to district court... with not a hint of resolution anywhere to be seen. It's been in the system so long that some of the people named as defendants are dead, and the rest no longer hold the offices named... and likely the lawsuit has many years to go before it is resolved.

At what point (number of years from now) and what specific outcomes will you need to see to be able to evaluate that the "judicial system" has NOT "correct[ed] itself"?

Of course this is all hypothetical ramblings... as the Oahu chief has already made perfectly clear on several occasions that carry licenses will be issued by him in the next 10 days.

Not holding my breath.

Just out of curiosity, what number of years constitutes "further ahead", i.e. how long are you willing to demurely "wait to and [sic] see if the judicial system corrects itself"?

Young v. [Hawaii] has been in the "judicial system" for over 10 years, and is now back to district court... with not a hint of resolution anywhere to be seen. It's been in the system so long that some of the people named as defendants are dead, and the rest no longer hold the offices named... and likely the lawsuit has many years to go before it is resolved.

At what point (number of years from now) and what specific outcomes will you need to see to be able to evaluate that the "judicial system" has NOT "correct[ed] itself"?

Of course this is all hypothetical ramblings... as the Oahu chief has already made perfectly clear on several occasions that carry licenses will be issued by him in the next 10 days.

Not holding my breath.

I’ve already explained what outcomes I want to see in my earlier post. I’m not sure why you guys are taking issue with what I wrote? The state of Hawaii and California have enjoyed an advantage up until Bruen. The ability for the states to request and be granted emergency stays based on the balancing test has allowed them to take a “if you don’t like it then sue us” approach. If they know that a particular law will be granted an emergency stay they will have no problem fighting it in court while our rights get denied.

What I want to see is exactly what the SCOTUS wants to see. There’s a reason the court remanded those cases back down to the ninth, they want to see Text, history, and Tradition properly applied. If the district court applies the law correctly In youngVhawaii the state will have to fight that ruling while we get to open carry.

I’ve already explained what outcomes I want to see in my earlier post. I’m not sure why you guys are taking issue with what I wrote? The state of Hawaii and California have enjoyed an advantage up until Bruen. The ability for the states to request and be granted emergency stays based on the balancing test has allowed them to take a “if you don’t like it then sue us” approach. If they know that a particular law will be granted an emergency stay they will have no problem fighting it in court while our rights get denied.

What I want to see is exactly what the SCOTUS wants to see. There’s a reason the court remanded those cases back down to the ninth, they want to see Text, history, and Tradition properly applied. If the district court applies the law correctly In youngVhawaii the state will have to fight that ruling while we get to open carry.

I suppose you didn't know that it was rather "easy" to get a CCW in California as long as you were in a rural county.
Hawaii there are NO CCW's at all anywhere.  So I hope you don't think I'm a little too radical on this subject.
But fuck them.  The hoops they are going to put up even Nadia Comăneci could not jump through.
And there's like 300 or so applications in the entire state?
They are afraid of 300 of us,  In a population of 1.4 million?
No more Aloha, No more go along to get along.
Y'all lost my  cooperation in the getting in the box car to take a trip,
Hawaii.
 

I’ve already explained what outcomes I want to see in my earlier post. I’m not sure why you guys are taking issue with what I wrote? The state of Hawaii and California have enjoyed an advantage up until Bruen. The ability for the states to request and be granted emergency stays based on the balancing test has allowed them to take a “if you don’t like it then sue us” approach. If they know that a particular law will be granted an emergency stay they will have no problem fighting it in court while our rights get denied.

What I want to see is exactly what the SCOTUS wants to see. There’s a reason the court remanded those cases back down to the ninth, they want to see Text, history, and Tradition properly applied. If the district court applies the law correctly In youngVhawaii the state will have to fight that ruling while we get to open carry.

I'm questioning your comments to get a clearer picture of your acceptable timetable and specific incidents that you might evaluate as "the judicial system correcting itself"... and why you would think such events could happen in Hawaii courts or the Ninth Circuit, when the history, text, and tradition of those courts is to consistently deny the exercise of the fundamental, individual, God-given/natural, constitutionally-protected right to bear arms.

I also question the validity of the logic that claims that if the district court rules in favor of Young, that "we get to open carry". Surely the state will appeal and ask for a stay until resolved at the appeal level(s)... which will be many more years down the road. The courts have a long consistent history of "deference" to the state/government. Especially re "public safety" (see the 95% court case rate of upholding (uselessly ineffective) "Covid mandates", etc.).

I don't understand your willingness to see if the "judicial system will correct itself". It has never done so in the past with regard to firearms issues locally and in the Ninth Circuit. Why would it start now? Your read the SCOTUS remand of Young to the Ninth Circuit. You read the Ninth Circuit remand to the district court, and O'Scannlain's scathing dissent of that remand. You don't think those lawyers/judges will continue in the same vein and find numerous ways to continue to deny us exercising our rights? I don't claim to know, but I don't see any evidence that would lead me to believe that all of a sudden they are going to respect the history, text and tradition of Second Amendment protected rights now.

I suppose you didn't know that it was rather "easy" to get a CCW in California as long as you were in a rural county.
Hawaii there are NO CCW's at all anywhere.  So I hope you don't think I'm a little too radical on this subject.
But fuck them.  The hoops they are going to put up even Nadia Comăneci could not jump through.
And there's like 300 or so applications in the entire state?
They are afraid of 300 of us,  In a population of 1.4 million?
No more Aloha, No more go along to get along.
Y'all lost my  cooperation in the getting in the box car to take a trip,
Hawaii.
 

Should mention that before those folks boarded for their rail excursions to the group showers, they turned in their firearms at the request of the ruling socialist... for the good of all.

I'm questioning your comments to get a clearer picture of your acceptable timetable and specific incidents that you might evaluate as "the judicial system correcting itself"... and why you would think such events could happen in Hawaii courts or the Ninth Circuit, when the history, text, and tradition of those courts is to consistently deny the exercise of the fundamental, individual, God-given/natural, constitutionally-protected right to bear arms.

I also question the validity of the logic that claims that if the district court rules in favor of Young, that "we get to open carry". Surely the state will appeal and ask for a stay until resolved at the appeal level(s)... which will be many more years down the road. The courts have a long consistent history of "deference" to the state/government. Especially re "public safety" (see the 95% court case rate of upholding (uselessly ineffective) "Covid mandates", etc.).

I don't understand your willingness to see if the "judicial system will correct itself". It has never done so in the past with regard to firearms issues locally and in the Ninth Circuit. Why would it start now? Your read the SCOTUS remand of Young to the Ninth Circuit. You read the Ninth Circuit remand to the district court, and O'Scannlain's scathing dissent of that remand. You don't think those lawyers/judges will continue in the same vein and find numerous ways to continue to deny us exercising our rights? I don't claim to know, but I don't see any evidence that would lead me to believe that all of a sudden they are going to respect the history, text and tradition of Second Amendment protected rights now.

We just got a win at the SCOTUS level. The judicial system is our last hope. We certainly are not getting any help from our executive or legislative branches and unless you want to lead the civil war against the state we have to hope that Justice Thomas’ opinion is strong enough to force the lower courts to rule appropriately. I’m pretty young still so forgive my naivety. It sounds like you’ve given up and I don’t blame you but IMO I’m only doing what is logical. Hawaii had been relying on the 2 step approach to win 2A cases and the Supreme Court has expressly stated that is the incorrect way to interpret the law.

If the district court rules in favor of Young the state will try to request a stay. However in light of Bruen they cannot use the balancing test to justify an emergency stay. They will have to allow open carry at that point while the state appeals the decision. This gives us the advantage in future lawsuits. However if they find a way to grant a stay I will be right there with you.

We just got a win at the SCOTUS level. The judicial system is our last hope. We certainly are not getting any help from our executive or legislative branches and unless you want to lead the civil war against the state we have to hope that Justice Thomas’ opinion is strong enough to force the lower courts to rule appropriately. I’m pretty young still so forgive my naivety. It sounds like you’ve given up and I don’t blame you but IMO I’m only doing what is logical. Hawaii had been relying on the 2 step approach to win 2A cases and the Supreme Court has expressly stated that is the incorrect way to interpret the law.

If the district court rules in favor of Young the state will try to request a stay. However in light of Bruen they cannot use the balancing test to justify an emergency stay. They will have to allow open carry at that point while the state appeals the decision. This gives us the advantage in future lawsuits. However if they find a way to grant a stay I will be right there with you.

You are young so here is how it works,
If you don't want to do something,  you work "to the rule"  There are so many rules
very little will ever get done.
In the private world they will lay your ass off, but government doesn't have that issue.
They are working "to rule"  you want to abide by that and
you will be my age and still not be able to practice the rights God gave you when you were
conceived.
Government and their hired help are not your friends.
Granted we don't want to go Kinetic on this, but doing it by their rules isn't working either.
Passive aggression is my path.
Cheat them, starve them, watch them die from their own self inflicted wounds.
 

We just got a win at the SCOTUS level. The judicial system is our last hope.

[snipped]

Based on that belief, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't fully understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

"Soap Box
 Ballot Box              <== ** We are here **
 Bullet Box"

Based on that belief, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't fully understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

"Soap Box
 Ballot Box              <== ** We are here **
 Bullet Box"

I meant our last hope before things get bad.

I meant our last hope before things get bad.

You should say what you mean.

What you said was "last hope."  We have options if the justice system fails to do its job, and there's nobody in authority willing to put it right.

You should say what you mean.

What you said was "last hope."  We have options if the justice system fails to do its job, and there's nobody in authority willing to put it right.

I already mentioned civil war as an option, however it’s an option that literally no one wants. So calling the judicial system our last hope is entirely appropriate to say. Your taking my statement out of context.

I already mentioned civil war as an option, however it’s an option that literally no one wants. So calling the judicial system our last hope is entirely appropriate to say. Your taking my statement out of context.

Please explain what context I failed to consider?  It seemed perfectly clear what your context was.

You're tap dancing around admitting you could have (should have?) been more precise with your comments, and you're blaming me for "taking it out of context."

When you start explaining/lecturing others on the law and what it means going forward, you should be more accurate and less defensive.

The Constitution is the legal document that supersedes all other legal documents.  Having to sue our "rulers" to get them to follow the law isn't part of what the founders envisioned.  Defending our lives and freedoms against tyranny is, however, covered:  "...being necessary to the security of a free State..."

When the justice system is unwilling to force the ruling class to follow the law and Constitution, our last hope is not the courts.

Again, in what context does your comment make better sense?

Not Hawaii.. but..

Not Hawaii.. but..

But coming to HI soon. It's no coincidence that NY and CA's new CCW process has mirror like requirements. It's just that HI is not in its legislative session and Ige won't hold a special session.

Which means everyone here better be submitting testimonies and calling/emailing their reps (house/senate) once the session begins.

It's been more than two months since Bruen was decided (June 23).

It's been more than 30 days since the Hawaii PD posted their 30 day statement on their website (see below).

It will be 30 days tomorrow since they sent my denial letter of my unconcealed/concealed carry license application, fulfilling all the criteria required at the time, using the exact same verbiage as on the website (below) as the "excuse".

I will call HPD tomorrow if the website isn't updated with the new "process". Then call the mayor and mention stonewalling, since no one at HPD claims to know anything at all about when the new "process" will actually appear nor anything at all about what it will contain as "criteria". "Just watch the website or call". LOL. Lying sacks of sh*t.

License to Carry

In view of the recent Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) decision in the case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc., et al. v. Bruen, Superintendent Of New York State Police, et al, the police departments throughout the State are working with the Department of Attorney General and our County attorneys in revising the permitting process for concealed and unconcealed firearms.

The revisions to the current process will include amending the applications being currently utilized, therefore, if still interested you will need to reapply once the revisions are finalized.  We anticipate the revisions being completed within the next 30 days and will post updated information on our department’s website.

****
As a side note, "§134-9  Licenses to carry" uses the term "license(s)" 12 times in the law itself, and 9 more times in the "Attorney General Comments", for a total of 21 times.

The word "permit(s)" does not appear even one time.

Thus the cops using the term "permitting process" is technically incorrect. What a surprise. smh.

If they add live fire training and qualification it should be free like Hunters Ed.
It’s a Right for nuts sake.
I don’t really object to it though IF they offer it for free.
(Note : All permits applied for before Legislative session granted.)
I seen knuckleheads at the range I definitely do not want carrying. 
But if Shi+ went down in the mall, I’d be praying someone with little bit of skill was carrying.

Realistically, we’re gonna eat whatever shit pudding they’re serving in this State regarding firearms.
Hope at least it’s free because it’s a Right. (Except the $43.95 for non-existent RapBack which everyone’s willfully been paying.)

The anticipation builds.  And it's not a good anticipation.  Where all you're doing is waiting impatiently for something to come to fruition.

This anticipation is wrought with anxieties:  Unrealistic restrictions.  Training and qualification requirements.  Waiting periods.  Costs?  The lists and possibilities are endless.  All unconstitutional.  The fact that "they" said "wait and be patient" is not promising.

Whatever the outcome is, it should be coming soon.

Had two friends who went to the west side separately yesterday both report back that the vibe over there is gnarly. People look devastated and angry. They are shooting guns in the back hills to scare away robbers because the economic hardship is making violent crime an every day reality, plus I”m sure they have noticed how many people got permanently disabled or died from the mRNA shots and are furious that nobody in Honolulu Hale cares about them. Imagine what it’s going to be like after the election when food an energy prices really get this inflation party started. Makaha and Maile point might be off menu this winter. Then again I’ll be reluctant to leave the house because we’ll have our own zip code chaos to worry about.

Hurry up with those permits chief