...
Is the Chief really allowed to make up “laws”on his own ?
...

He addressed that 6 weeks ago when he first said he'd be issuing licenses by the end of August (i.e. day after tomorrow!). He clarified that what he was declaring were NOT "restrictions" (much less "laws"), they were ["administrative"?] "procedures". (You know, like Trump did with bumpstocks and red flag procedures). After all, he knows his place and the limits to his power and authority. "Oh, and f*ck you, peasants. Especially if you were stupid enough to believe me about the August-issued licenses!"

He addressed that 6 weeks ago when he first said he'd be issuing licenses by the end of August (i.e. day after tomorrow!). He clarified that what he was declaring were NOT "restrictions" (much less "laws"), they were ["administrative"?] "procedures". (You know, like Trump did with bumpstocks and red flag procedures). After all, he knows his place and the limits to his power and authority. "Oh, and f*ck you, peasants. Especially if you were stupid enough to believe me about the August-issued licenses!"

As the new chief, I had hopes he would abide by his word, but I was wrong. Often politics plays for 1 to get elected as chief, and I'm sure the committee had words with him about CCW.

I was hoping the delay was for admin stuff on HPD's end like they need to order the cards, the printers, place to keep all the paper apps, etc...

It makes it sound like he just found out about the delay. I'm sure he knew about this for some time now and could have made an announcement or even reached out to Andrew since he was their almost daily or reached out to HIFICO. But he choose to stay silent until someone called on the last radio show and asked him about it. If no one called, HIFICO wouldn't have found out till tomorrow.

Zippz, hope you and London can school on some things at the public “hearing”
Mahalo for all you and HIFICO do. (Again any member here who is not a member of HIFICO I shake my head.)

Yea I have a long list of things.  There some simple stuff that are probably errors, like the Level 2 holster requirement is likely referring to open carry only and NRA target is probably the Federal qual target that HPD uses for qual that isn't a NRA target.  A lot of the other more egregious stuff is due to the Hawaii law being very vague, give an inch take a mile.  There's no authority to require people get medical records from out of state or get a 45 minute evaluation.  I'm surprised they did that with privacy issues surrounding medical records and our lawsuit for the Homesick Sailor mental health checks.  It should be tossed out in court due to vagueness and not authorized by law, but that'll take a long time.

Some of it is just unsafe, like having officers check the holster and firearm in public.  This could lead to negligent discharges and officers accidentally shooting the person.

At least they don't restrict based on looks alone for the "not appear to be mentally deranged."  That would disqualify 90% of us here.

The other thing from HPD's perspective is, did they calculate how much manpower this would require from them?  All this stuff is a lot of work for a firearms section that struggles to do permit to acquire and registration.

HOLY FUCKNUTS! What a pile of garbage from the HPD.

Mental health OVERREACH - Waht in the actual FUCK is this? I certainly hope the lawsuit printer is going BRRRRRR
(b) Every applicant who lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last five years shall provide mental health information as follows:
(1) Mental health records from the health department of every state, province, or equivalent governmental unit where the applicant lived for more than 60 days within the previous five years, to be sent directly to the Honolulu Police Department from the governmental entity. Applicants who, within the previous five years, were stationed outside the United States due to federal government service shall have mental health records sent to the Honolulu Police Department from the relevant federal governmental entity, but need not obtain records from the foreign government; or
(2) Certification from a physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, licensed to practice in Hawaii and completed no earlier than 90 days before submission of the application, attesting to the applicant’s mental fitness to carry a firearm, provided that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist shall personally evaluate the applicant for no less than 45 minutes before so attesting.

edit - whoops missed the post above about this mental health crap.

Make our voices heard on this shit, but based on what's written below is that is more like the line in the movie Silverado. 'We're gonna give you a fair trial followed by a first class hanging"
.....................................................
https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/proposed-amendment-to-chapter-15-of-the-rules-of-the-chief-of-police/
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND TESTIMONY

All interested persons shall be afforded the opportunity to submit data, views, or arguments, orally or in writing, on the proposed administrative rules at the time of the public hearing. Attendance at the public hearing is not necessary to submit testimony. There will be a time limit of two minutes per person to present testimony at the hearing.

Persons wishing to submit written testimony in advance may do so by emailing their testimony to HPDLTC@honolulu.gov (preferred) or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, Attn: Public Testimony, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. All written testimony submitted before the conclusion of the public hearing shall be considered. Interested persons are encouraged to submit their testimony in advance of the public hearing, as this will give HPD more time to review and consider the testimony.

Advance registration is not necessary to attend or submit testimony at the hearing. At the conclusion of the hearing, HPD shall announce the date by which the Chief intends to make a decision on the proposed rules.

Upon request, this notice is available in alternate formats such as large print, Braille, or electronic copy. If you need an auxiliary aid/service or other accommodation due to a disability, please contact HPD at (808) 388-9651, HPDLTC@honolulu.gov, or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. Requests made as early as possible will allow adequate time to fulfill your request.

Arthur J. Logan, Chief
Honolulu Police Department

As the new chief, I had hopes he would abide by his word, but I was wrong. Often politics plays for 1 to get elected as chief, and I'm sure the committee had words with him about CCW.

I was hoping the delay was for admin stuff on HPD's end like they need to order the cards, the printers, place to keep all the paper apps, etc...

It makes it sound like he just found out about the delay. I'm sure he knew about this for some time now and could have made an announcement or even reached out to Andrew since he was their almost daily or reached out to HIFICO. But he choose to stay silent until someone called on the last radio show and asked him about it. If no one called, HIFICO wouldn't have found out till tomorrow.

I also believe the committee had a few words with him about this issue.  He wouldn't be Chief if he even hinted to the committee that he was pro CCW during the hiring process.  They would have dropped him like a hot potato and yelled "Next man!!"

I suspected at first but now I believe this was all smoke and mirrors, a stall tactic, and a plan to line themselves up like Kalifornia and Neuw Yawk. 

But I also believe, though it will take time, all of this BS restrictions to essentially circumvent CCW will blow up in their faces in the court of law.  It was a pipedream to think they would just comply.

Make our voices heard on this shit
.....................................................
https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/proposed-amendment-to-chapter-15-of-the-rules-of-the-chief-of-police/
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND TESTIMONY

All interested persons shall be afforded the opportunity to submit data, views, or arguments, orally or in writing, on the proposed administrative rules at the time of the public hearing. Attendance at the public hearing is not necessary to submit testimony. There will be a time limit of two minutes per person to present testimony at the hearing.

Persons wishing to submit written testimony in advance may do so by emailing their testimony to HPDLTC@honolulu.gov (preferred) or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, Attn: Public Testimony, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. All written testimony submitted before the conclusion of the public hearing shall be considered. Interested persons are encouraged to submit their testimony in advance of the public hearing, as this will give HPD more time to review and consider the testimony.

Advance registration is not necessary to attend or submit testimony at the hearing. At the conclusion of the hearing, HPD shall announce the date by which the Chief intends to make a decision on the proposed rules.

Upon request, this notice is available in alternate formats such as large print, Braille, or electronic copy. If you need an auxiliary aid/service or other accommodation due to a disability, please contact HPD at (808) 388-9651, HPDLTC@honolulu.gov, or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. Requests made as early as possible will allow adequate time to fulfill your request.

Arthur J. Logan, Chief
Honolulu Police Department

If you want to get their attention send a letter instead of an email.  If you want them to read it then send it as a thank you card or a post card.

And with all of this, Hawaii back at the Ainokea Carry permit.

....


I'm just baffled after reading through the entire thing. Too many things are just plain stupid and I'm sure HIFICO is already on it.

To me, 2 standouts are the mental health requirements and then for renewal, you have to do the entire process all over again. So every year you submit your mental health info, submit to a mental health exam, written and practical tests. This can cost you over $1000 every year between the mental health checkup and then the class. On it's face this is cooling on 2nd Amendment rights and in clear violation of the Bruen decision. I am extremely thankful for HiFiCo and the work they do (just renewed my annual membership last week, you should too), but can we get FPC, GOA and other true gun rights organizations involved? Screw the NRA at this point.

And with all of this, Hawaii back at the Ainokea Carry permit.

....


I'm just baffled after reading through the entire thing. Too many things are just plain stupid and I'm sure HIFICO is already on it.

To me, 2 standouts are the mental health requirements and then for renewal, you have to do the entire process all over again. So every year you submit your mental health info, submit to a mental health exam, written and practical tests. This can cost you over $1000 every year between the mental health checkup and then the class. On it's face this is cooling on 2nd Amendment rights and in clear violation of the Bruen decision. I am extremely thankful for HiFiCo and the work they do (just renewed my annual membership last week, you should too), but can we get FPC, GOA and other true gun rights organizations involved? Screw the NRA at this point.

The bigger orgs don't focus on a small state like HI. We are on our own. Think about all the wins HIFICO has been getting, how many wins have nationwide orgs been getting in HI?

Open carry still has a requirement to show cause if I’m not mistaken after reading this convoluted document.
And the Chief can still levy a bevy of restrictions. Like what times of day you can open carry and where.

Regarding concealed carry:

“
(e) Unless renewed, every License shall expire, and shall become invalid, one year from the date of issue.
(f) To renew a License, a licensee shall complete all requirements for the License and shall submit the materials no earlier than 90 days, and no later than 30 days, prior to the
expiration of the License. If the licensee continues to meet all requirements, the License shall be renewed for one year after the expiration of the licensee’s existing License. “

No shi+. Am I reading this right ?
As noted above by 6716J, looks like you’ll have to repeat the process every year.

what are the size of the targets to be used for qualification?

what are the size of the targets to be used for qualification?

Will assume the standard B-27. Which will make it impossible to have any testing performed at Kokohead. From the pistol rules - 10. Shoot only at authorized targets. No plinking of objects on backstop berm or on the ground.  Human silhouette targets are not allowed. i.e: B-27 no bueno

Looking for a silver lining here…

these proposed illegal regulations are so far out into leftist loopy land that it’s making it easier and easier to drive a wedge between our security guard/gated community protected political class and the rest of the population who are getting fed up with violent crime, increasing taxes, and diminishing services.

Maybe it’s time for another public awareness event with Stolen Stuff Hawaii

The bigger orgs don't focus on a small state like HI. We are on our own. Think about all the wins HIFICO has been getting, how many wins have nationwide orgs been getting in HI?

HIFICO is the BOMB here and the nationwides ignore us. Just wishful thinking to bring their national warchests and attention to us and how we are treated less than redheaded bastard stepchildren

People, people, people... I hate to burst the bubble of raging discontent, but... SCOTUS rather adamantly clarified that the "two step process" and "deference to the state in cases of public safety", etc., etc., etc. are clearly invalid methodologies for evaluating Second Amendment claims. They made clear that the ONLY lawful method of adjudicating claims is "text, history, and tradition". Now for the bad news: I'm pretty sure I read an essay by John Adams, written in 1789, two years before the adoption of the Bill of Rights, in which he clearly stated that level two holsters and psychiatric evaluations and "live fire proficiency testing", etc., would be necessities, repeated annually, for anyone to bear a firearm outside their home (but only in their county of residence). So, they've got the "text, history, and tradition" on their side. Ask them.

HIFICO is the BOMB here and the nationwides ignore us. Just wishful thinking to bring their national warchests and attention to us and how we are treated less than redheaded bastard stepchildren

It’s simple.  Venue.  No local judges willing to follow the law.  Saint Benitiez is on a roll in Cali and the 9th.  I think the best we can do is wait for the wins at the 9th circuit and follow suit after.  We’re like Sisyphus in many ways. 

Sisyphus. Great analogy.

For public safety I wanted to carry a double action only hammerless 2” barrel revolver.
Basically a 3 to 7 yard gun. (For me anyway) Can’t pass the test.
Not to mention the rest of the nonsense.

Pretty soon they’ll have you taking the Men in Black range test.

It’s simple.  Venue.  No local judges willing to follow the law.  Saint Benitiez is on a roll in Cali and the 9th.  I think the best we can do is wait for the wins at the 9th circuit and follow suit after.  We’re like Sisyphus in many ways.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 9th is still doing their own thing and obstructing.  To delay, save face, and discourage attorneys from helping.  Young and Duncan was sent back to district court which is not good.  My lawsuit was kept at the 9th which is a good thing to make progress.

Any new lawsuits to challenge CCW restrictions will likely still have a long and hard road to go through.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 9th is still doing their own thing and obstructing.  To delay, save face, and discourage attorneys from helping.  Young and Duncan was sent back to district court which is not good.  My lawsuit was kept at the 9th which is a good thing to make progress.

Any new lawsuits to challenge CCW restrictions will likely still have a long and hard road to go through.

You’re not bursting anything.  While they’ve remanded cases back down to Benitez to stall, it was anticipated.  I don’t think anyone just expected the 9th to just roll over and play nice all of a sudden.  It’s like trying to get your dog to come home after he’s spent hours at the dog park with all his friends.  He’s going to make you drag his ass back to the car and carry him inside.  Benitez realized this and as a result he’s moved up the date to resolve the CA assault weapons case within the next couple of months. 

https://www.civilbeat.org/?p=1511331

“An Increase In ‘Violent, Brazen’ Crime Raises Concerns On Oahu”

Even the libs are noticing how nuts it’s getting and they NEVER like to admit they were wrong.

I really honestly believe that when the food shortages kick in after the election we’ll see some civil unrest.

First Europe will freeze and burn, and then it’s our turn.