Hurry up with those permits Chief (Read 101151 times)

mill8316

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #360 on: September 06, 2022, 01:01:22 AM »
I am unaware and unable to find a "National Rifle Association certified target:" specifically for CCW much less any powder actuated pistol target for under 50ft.  :wacko:
I do find that for the NRA CCW, they use a standard IDPA.
Not sure if the 50yd NRA B27E is the same.

NRA B27 seems to me from researching to be the only NRA target with a 5 point alternate scoring system. So I am guessing that is the target. I hope it is because that would be a lot more reasonable, than some tiny unrealistic target.

hvybarrels

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #361 on: September 06, 2022, 01:21:21 AM »
More local businesses closing down because they keep getting robbed and cops can’t or won’t help them

Plus two more Sunday stabbings

https://www.kitv.com/news/rash-of-crimes-in-kalihi-pushing-mom-and-pop-shop-out-of-business/article_876a0aa0-2d97-11ed-8ec2-eb2a3cd636f9.html

I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

Heavies

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #362 on: September 06, 2022, 04:21:53 AM »
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, pursuant to Hawai‘i Revised Statutes chapter 91, of a public hearing to be held by the Honolulu Police Department (“HPD”) for the purpose of adopting Rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.

HRS 91-1 Definitions

"Agency" means each state or county board, commission, department, or
officer authorized by law to make rules or to adjudicate contested cases,
except those in the legislative or judicial branches.

"Rule" means each agency statement of general or particular applicability and
future effect that implements, interprets, or prescribes law or policy, or
describes the organization, procedure, or practice requirements of any
agency. The term does not include regulations concerning only the internal
management of an agency and not affecting private rights of or procedures
available to the public, nor does the term include declaratory rulings issued
pursuant to section 91-8, nor intra-agency memoranda.

HPD is not allowed to make rules that affect the legislative or judicial branches.
Rules can not affect private rights.

I dispute HPD authority to make rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
I declare HPD is in violation of HRS 91.

To keep and bear arms is a civil right that does not fall under HRS 91 where it can be infringed upon by rules made by HPD.



Thank you for this info

Nostayhome

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #363 on: September 06, 2022, 04:53:58 AM »
(v) Fifteen-yard line: 5 rounds in 20 seconds from a concealed
holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 4 second split.

Would HPD even consider it self defense, if you shot someone at 15yds?
I highly doubt it!!

ren

Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #365 on: September 06, 2022, 08:28:49 AM »
(v) Fifteen-yard line: 5 rounds in 20 seconds from a concealed
holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 4 second split.

Would HPD even consider it self defense, if you shot someone at 15yds?
I highly doubt it!!

This is a very good avenue to pursuit. At what distance is it no longer self defense according to HI prosecutors.

changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #366 on: September 06, 2022, 08:30:26 AM »
My son just moved to vegas where he just completed his ccw course.
He passed the shooting test and has to wait about 4 months.

I guess he had a good instructor :D

NV law gives up to 120 days. Each time we got our CCW's it arrived just under the 120 day mark (119 days this past December).

Also NV allows any caliber to be used, so 1 could use a 22LR and their CCW is valid for any handgun. 1 permit for all. This is how HI CCW's should be, valid for ANY handgun.

QUIETShooter

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #367 on: September 06, 2022, 08:35:11 AM »
NV law gives up to 120 days. Each time we got our CCW's it arrived just under the 120 day mark (119 days this past December).

Also NV allows any caliber to be used, so 1 could use a 22LR and their CCW is valid for any handgun. 1 permit for all. This is how HI CCW's should be, valid for ANY handgun.

Agree.  Makes sense.  If one firearm needs repair/service another can be used in its place.  Hawaii requiring a separate permit for each gun is insane and only shows they are not interested in citizens rights to bear arms. 
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

groveler

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #368 on: September 06, 2022, 09:53:09 AM »
Agree.  Makes sense.  If one firearm needs repair/service another can be used in its place.  Hawaii requiring a separate permit for each gun is insane and only shows they are not interested in citizens rights to bear arms.
Y'all know,  you have not figured it out yet.
The government is NOT your fiend.
play ball with them and they will stuff the bat
up your behind.
Get used to that.
Act/plan accordingly.
 :wtf:

changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #369 on: September 06, 2022, 09:56:16 AM »
Y'all know,  you have not figured it out yet.
The government is NOT your fiend.
play ball with them and they will stuff the bat
up your behind.
Get used to that.
Act/plan accordingly.
 :wtf:

"Take that bat and shine it up real nicely.  Then take the sumbitch and turn it sidewards and stick it up your candy ass" The Rock.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #370 on: September 06, 2022, 10:49:32 AM »
This is a very good avenue to pursuit. At what distance is it no longer self defense according to HI prosecutors.

You're allowed to use force in defense of others, unless HI fails to recognize that facet of self defense, too.

If someone is being threatened, I don't think your distance is going to matter.  Kind of like shooting a guy committing mass murder in a mall from 40 yards away.

If the attacker is armed with a firearm, and you're able to stop him from whatever your distance is, then the attacker was a threat to you as well.

Logic.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #371 on: September 06, 2022, 10:55:55 AM »
Agree.  Makes sense.  If one firearm needs repair/service another can be used in its place.  Hawaii requiring a separate permit for each gun is insane and only shows they are not interested in citizens rights to bear arms.

Sounds like a perfect application for a modular trigger-group firearm.  Can change out all the components as the need arises while retaining the serial number of the firearm used for the test.

You can even change calibers.  If anyone ever questions it, say the department must have made a clerical error.  They do it all the time.  But, your gun's serial number will match the license.

 :thumbsup: :geekdanc:

The main purpose for the Sig P320 modular trigger design was for countries that only allow one handgun per owner.  The ability to swap grip sizes, slide & barrel lengths, and even calibers meant being able to own one handgun that meets more than one need.

 :shaka:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Rocky

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #372 on: September 06, 2022, 11:16:50 AM »

Would HPD even consider it self defense, if you shot someone at 15yds?
I highly doubt it!!

In most states, it's determining imminence or reasonableness (as seen thru the eyes of a "reasonable" person
(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Rocky

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #373 on: September 06, 2022, 11:19:22 AM »
You're allowed to use force in defense of others, unless HI fails to recognize that facet of self defense, too.

Won't post all  pages but here it is with no reference to firearms.( See HRS 703)
Hawaii's Good Samaritan Laws
HRS § 663-1.5:
Exception to liability.
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

drck1000

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #374 on: September 06, 2022, 11:20:02 AM »
In most states, it's determining imminence or reasonableness (as seen thru the eyes of a "reasonable" person
(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
disparity of force?  :-\

changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #375 on: September 06, 2022, 11:22:08 AM »
You're allowed to use force in defense of others, unless HI fails to recognize that facet of self defense, too.

If someone is being threatened, I don't think your distance is going to matter.  Kind of like shooting a guy committing mass murder in a mall from 40 yards away.

If the attacker is armed with a firearm, and you're able to stop him from whatever your distance is, then the attacker was a threat to you as well.

Logic.

Good thing our use of deadly force law states "belief". So articulation is key.

QUIETShooter

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #376 on: September 06, 2022, 11:28:07 AM »
Armchair Quarterback.

Armchair referees.

Armchair self defense analysts.

Put any of them in a real world situation and I wonder if their actions would match their analysis.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Rocky

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #377 on: September 06, 2022, 11:35:10 AM »
disparity of force?  :-\
I am not a lawyer (#NotALawyer)
That would be under (a) the nature of the danger;
Example is of disparity of force would be several large antagonist's heckling you
(a) Nature of threat
The several antagonist's heckling you are now approaching you
(b) threat has now advanced upon you increasing the "immediacy" of the possibility of severe bodily injury
You've announced that you wish for them to stop their advance (LOL) but they persist.
(c) now the probability of suffering  severe bodily injury is very high to the point where a decision regarding avoiding said severe bodily injury must be made.
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #378 on: September 06, 2022, 11:38:54 AM »
Armchair Quarterback.

Armchair referees.

Armchair self defense analysts.

Put any of them in a real world situation and I wonder if their actions would match their analysis.

Theres a vid of a civil rights activist who was all anti police and stuff. So they gave him a simunition involved scenarios. And he ended up shooting unarmed people. They he changed his anti police tune and supports their hard decisions.

* "I didn't know how important complance was....people need to comply"

« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 11:44:30 AM by changemyoil66 »

aieahound

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #379 on: September 06, 2022, 12:41:47 PM »
Won't post all  pages but here it is with no reference to firearms.( See HRS 703)
Hawaii's Good Samaritan Laws
HRS § 663-1.5:
Exception to liability.

Check out HRS 663-1.6 Duty to Assist

Section 663-1.6 - Duty to assist person at the scene of a crime who knows that a victim of the crime is suffering from serious physical harm shall obtain or attempt to obtain aid from law enforcement or medical personnel if the person can do so without danger or peril to any person. Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who provides reasonable assistance in compliance with subsection (a) shall not be liable in civil damages unless the person's acts constitute gross negligence or wanton acts or omissions, or unless the person receives or expects to receive remuneration. Nothing contained in this subsection shall alter existing law with respect to tort liability of a physician licensed to practice under the laws of this State committed in the ordinary course of the physician's practice.
(c) Any person who fails to provide reasonable assistance in compliance with subsection (a) shall not be liable for any civil damages.
HRS § 663-1.6

L 1984, c 140, §1
Section imposes on the perpetrator of a crime a duty to obtain necessary medical aid for the victim.73 Haw. 236, 831 P.2d 924. Where evidence that child was a victim of battered child syndrome was relevant to show that child's death was not an accident, but the result of an intentional, knowing or reckless criminal act, giving rise to a duty on defendant's part to obtain medical care for child pursuant to this section, trial court did not err in admitting expert testimony that child was a victim of battered child syndrome.101 Haw. 332,68 P.3d 606. Applicable to the perpetrator of a crime. 8 H. App. 506, 810 P.2d 672.


Wild. You have a duty to call EMS and/or the cops if you witness someone suffering from severe bodily injury.
Even the perp has a duty to call them after he beats/stabs/shoots you. Good luck with that.  :wacko:
Otherwise wise petty misdemeanor tack on charge. I’m sure they’re concerned about that.

Other than the modified “Castle Doctrine” what are the standards for use of deadly force outside the home premises under HRS ?

Looks like you can but still have a duty to retreat if possible outside the home or place of work.

§703-304  Use of force in self-protection.  (1)  Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 703-308, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by the other person on the present occasion.
     (2)  The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.
     (3)  Except as otherwise provided in subsections (4) and (5) of this section, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do, or abstaining from any lawful action.
     (4)  The use of force is not justifiable under this section:
     (a)  To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, although the arrest is unlawful; or
     (b)  To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:
          (i)  The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest; or
         (ii)  The actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily injury.
     (5)  The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
     (a)  The actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or
     (b)  The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:
          (i)  The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and
         (ii)  A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties, or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape, is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform his duty, effect the arrest, or prevent the escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom the action is directed.
     (6)  The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of confinement as protective force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he safely can, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime. [L 1972, c 9, pt of §1; ree L 1975, c 163, §3; am L 2001, c 91, §4]

(Emphasis added)

Edit:

Can you protect someone else outside the home or work ?
Looks like can but you better have a damn good reason for it and have your ducks in a row when they arrest you. 
Statute only refers to protect himself. And you have no legal duty to protect others but apparently you do have a legal duty to call the police.

Hope I’m reading this wrong and see the next post by CMO.

I am NOT a lawyer.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 01:18:41 PM by aieahound »